McCain Proposes Indefinite Detention Without Trial for Citizens

[Emmortal]

What side was this guy fighting for?  Obviously not America, only a traitor would suggest such a direct attack on the bill of rights:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/3344-mccain-proposes-indefinite-detention-without-trial-for-citizens

Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) has introduced a bill that would allow the President to imprison an unlimited number of American citizens (as well as foreigners) indefinitely without trial. Known as The Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010, or S. 3081, the bill authorizes the President to deny a detainee a trial by jury simply by designating that person an “enemy belligerent.”

The bill, which has eight cosponsors, explicitly names U.S. citizens as among those who can be detained indefinitely without trial:

An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent ... may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged, or which the individual has purposely and materially supported, consistent with the law of war and any authorization for the use of military force provided by Congress pertaining to such hostilities. [Emphasis added.]

Note that the Bush administration once said that the so-called “war on terror” would last a generation or more, and the U.S. military has officially classified many former Guantanamo detainees, such as England's Tipton Three, as having “returned to the battlefield” for merely granting an interview for the movie The Road to Guantanamo. Another five innocent Uighur (Ethnic Turkish Muslims from China) detainees had been listed as having “returned to the battlefield” after their release because their lawyer had written an op-ed protesting their prolonged detention without trial after they had been mistakenly picked up by a greedy bounty hunter. Writing an opinion or speaking an opinion against the party in power in Washington can — and already has — made some people “enemy belligerents.”

The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires that “No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,” and the Sixth Amendment stipulates the due process of law that all are required to receive:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

The requirement for a jury trial has no exceptions for military reasons, and doesn't even exempt foreigners. It simply employs the phrase “all criminal prosecutions,” words that unequivocally apply to the military and civilian justice systems, as well as to both citizens and foreigners. The Founding Fathers truly applied Christ's command to “Do to others whatever you would have them do to you,” but John McCain's new bill wouldn't even do to American citizens what we would assume were basic rights. There is no greater tyranny than indefinite imprisonment at the whim of an executive without legal recourse, and that is precisely what McCain and eight other senators would impose upon America.

McCain defended his bill in a speech on the Senate floor March 4, stating:

The legislation would authorize detention of enemy belligerents without criminal charges for the duration of the hostilities consistent with standards under the law of war which have been recognized by the Supreme Court.  Importantly, if a decision is made to hold a criminal trial after the necessary intelligence information is obtained, the bill mandates trial by military commission where we are best able to protect U.S. national security interests, including sensitive classified sources and methods, as well as the place and the people involved in the trial itself.

In other words, the right to trial by jury guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution would no longer be a right. The bill would mandate “military commissions” rather than a jury trial, if and when the President deems to hold a “trial.” Under McCain's legislation, trial by jury wouldn't just be a privilege that the President could withdraw at a whim, the President would be required to deny jury trials. The right to trial by jury would be denied entirely! Of course, any American could be held for decades without trial or even being charged with a crime under McCain's bill.

Cosponsors of the bill include Democrat/independent Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Republicans Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, Jeff Sessions of Alabama, Scott Brown of Massachusetts, Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, David Vitter of Louisiana, George LeMieux of Florida, and Roger Wicker of Mississippi. Those cosponsoring this outright attack on the Bill of Rights are those same Republican neo-conservatives who have dominated the GOP for the last decade or more. Conservative constitutionalists need to reassert control of the Republican Party and purge this cancer from the party and the U.S. Senate, if they wish to retain their freedoms.

The actual bill is here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-3081

111th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. 3081

To provide for the interrogation and detention of enemy belligerents who commit hostile acts against the United States, to establish certain limitations on the prosecution of such belligerents for such acts, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 4, 2010

Mr. MCCAIN (for himself, Mr. LIEBERMAN, Mr. INHOFE, Mr. BROWN of Massachusetts, Mr. WICKER, Mr. CHAMBLISS, Mr. LEMIEUX, Mr. SESSIONS, and Mr. VITTER) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To provide for the interrogation and detention of enemy belligerents who commit hostile acts against the United States, to establish certain limitations on the prosecution of such belligerents for such acts, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ‘Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010’.

SEC. 2. PLACEMENT OF SUSPECTED UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS IN MILITARY CUSTODY.

(a) Military Custody Requirement- Whenever within the United States, its territories, and possessions, or outside the territorial limits of the United States, an individual is captured or otherwise comes into the custody or under the effective control of the United States who is suspected of engaging in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners through an act of terrorism, or by other means in violation of the laws of war, or of purposely and materially supporting such hostilities, and who may be an unprivileged enemy belligerent, the individual shall be placed in military custody for purposes of initial interrogation and determination of status in accordance with the provisions of this Act.

(b) Reasonable Delay for Intelligence Activities- An individual who may be an unprivileged enemy belligerent and who is initially captured or otherwise comes into the custody or under the effective control of the United States by an intelligence agency of the United States may be held, interrogated, or transported by the intelligence agency and placed into military custody for purposes of this Act if retained by the United States within a reasonable time after the capture or coming into the custody or effective control by the intelligence agency, giving due consideration to operational needs and requirements to avoid compromise or disclosure of an intelligence mission or intelligence sources or methods.

SEC. 3. INTERROGATION AND DETERMINATION OF STATUS OF SUSPECTED UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS.

(a) Establishment of Interrogation Groups-

(1) ESTABLISHMENT AUTHORIZED- The President is authorized to establish an interagency team for purposes as follows:

(A) To interrogate under subsection (b) individuals placed in military custody under section 2.

(B) To make under subsection (c)(1) a preliminary determination of the status of individuals described in section 2.

(2) COMPOSITION- Each interagency team under this subsection shall be composed of such personnel of the Executive Branch having expertise in matters relating to national security, terrorism, intelligence, interrogation, or law enforcement as the President considers appropriate. The members of any particular interagency team may vary depending on the skills most relevant to a particular case.

(3) DESIGNATIONS-

(A) HIGH-VALUE DETAINEE- An individual placed in military custody under section 2 shall, while subject to interrogation and determination of status under this section, be referred to as a ‘high-value detainee’ if the individual meets the criteria for treatment as such established in the regulations required by subsection (d).

(B) HIGH-VALUE DETAINEE INTERROGATION GROUP- An interagency team established under this subsection shall be known as a ‘high-value detainee interrogation group’.

(b) Interrogations-

(1) INTERROGATIONS TO BE CONDUCTED BY HIGH-VALUE DETAINEE INTERROGATION GROUP- A high-value detainee interrogation group established under this section shall conduct the interrogations of each high-value detainee.

(2) UTILIZATION OF OTHER PERSONNEL- A high-value detainee interrogation group may utilize military and intelligence personnel, and Federal, State, and local law enforcement personnel, in conducting interrogations of a high-value detainee. The utilization of such personnel for the interrogation of a detainee shall not alter the responsibility of the interrogation group for the coordination within the Executive Branch of the interrogation of the detainee or the determination of status and disposition of the detainee under this Act.

(3) INAPPLICABILITY OF CERTAIN STATEMENT AND RIGHTS- A individual who is suspected of being an unprivileged enemy belligerent shall not, during interrogation under this subsection, be provided the statement required by Miranda v. Arizona (384 U.S. 436 (1966)) or otherwise be informed of any rights that the individual may or may not have to counsel or to remain silent consistent with Miranda v. Arizona.

(c) Determinations of Status-

(1) PRELIMINARY DETERMINATION BY HIGH-VALUE DETAINEE INTERROGATION GROUP- The high-value detainee interrogation group responsible for interrogating a high-value detainee under subsection (b) shall make a preliminary determination whether or not the detainee is an unprivileged enemy belligerent. The interrogation group shall make such determination based on the result of its interrogation of the individual and on all intelligence information available to the interrogation group. The interrogation group shall, after consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, submit such determination to the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General.

(2) FINAL DETERMINATION- As soon as possible after receipt of a preliminary determination of status with respect to a high-value detainee under paragraph (1), the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General shall jointly submit to the President and to the appropriate committees of Congress a final determination whether or not the detainee is an unprivileged enemy belligerent for purposes of this Act. In the event of a disagreement between the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General, the President shall make the final determination.

(3) DEADLINE FOR DETERMINATIONS- All actions required regarding a high-value detainee under this subsection shall, to the extent practicable, be completed not later than 48 hours after the detainee is placed in military custody under section 2.

(d) Regulations-

(1) IN GENERAL- The operations and activities of high-value detainee interrogation groups under this section shall be governed by such regulations and guidance as the President shall establish for purposes of implementing this section. The regulations shall specify the officer or officers of the Executive Branch responsible for determining whether an individual placed in military custody under section 2 meets the criteria for treatment as a high-value detainee for purposes of interrogation and determination of status by a high-value interrogation group under this section.

(2) CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION OF INDIVIDUALS AS HIGH-VALUE DETAINEES- The regulations required by this subsection shall include criteria for designating an individual as a high-value detainee based on the following:

(A) The potential threat the individual poses for an attack on civilians or civilian facilities within the United States or upon United States citizens or United States civilian facilities abroad at the time of capture or when coming under the custody or control of the United States.

(B) The potential threat the individual poses to United States military personnel or United States military facilities at the time of capture or when coming under the custody or control of the United States.

(C) The potential intelligence value of the individual.

(D) Membership in al Qaeda or in a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda.

(E) Such other matters as the President considers appropriate.

(3) PARAMOUNT PURPOSE OF INTERROGATIONS- The regulations required by this subsection shall provide that the paramount purpose of the interrogation of high-value detainees under this Act shall be the protection of United States civilians and United States civilian facilities through thorough and professional interrogation for intelligence purposes.

(4) SUBMITTAL TO CONGRESS- The President shall submit the regulations and guidance required by this subsection to the appropriate committees of Congress not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

SEC. 4. LIMITATION ON PROSECUTION OF ALIEN UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS.

(a) Limitation- No funds appropriated or otherwise made available to the Department of Justice may be used to prosecute in an Article III court in the United States, or in any territory or possession of the United States, any alien who has been determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2).

(b) Applicability Pending Final Determination of Status- While a final determination on the status of an alien high-value detainee is pending under section 3(c)(2), the alien shall be treated as an unprivileged enemy belligerent for purposes of subsection (a).

SEC. 5. DETENTION WITHOUT TRIAL OF UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENTS.

An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2) in a manner which satisfies Article 5 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged, or which the individual has purposely and materially supported, consistent with the law of war and any authorization for the use of military force provided by Congress pertaining to such hostilities.

SEC. 6. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) ACT OF TERRORISM- The term ‘act of terrorism’ means an act of terrorism as that term is defined in section 101(16) of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. 101(16)).

(2) ALIEN- The term ‘alien’ means an individual who is not a citizen of the United States.

(3) APPROPRIATE COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS- The term ‘appropriate committees of Congress’ means--

(A) the Committee on Armed Services, the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, the Committee on the Judiciary, and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate; and

(B) the Committee on Armed Services, the Committee on Homeland Security, the Committee on the Judiciary, and the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives.

(4) ARTICLE III COURT- The term ‘Article III court’ means a court of the United States established under Article III of the Constitution of the United States.

(5) COALITION PARTNER- The term ‘coalition partner’, with respect to hostilities engaged in by the United States, means any State or armed force directly engaged along with the United States in such hostilities or providing direct operational support to the United States in connection with such hostilities.

(6) GENEVA CONVENTION RELATIVE TO THE TREATMENT OF PRISONERS OF WAR- The term ‘Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War’ means the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, done at Geneva August 12, 1949 (6 UST 3316).

(7) HOSTILITIES- The term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war, and includes a deliberate attack upon civilians and civilian targets protected by the laws of war.

( PRIVILEGED BELLIGERENT- The term ‘privileged belligerent’ means an individual belonging to one of the eight categories enumerated in Article 4 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War.

(9) UNPRIVILEGED ENEMY BELLIGERENT- The term ‘unprivileged enemy belligerent’ means an individual (other than a privileged belligerent) who--

(A) has engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners;

(B) has purposely and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; or

(C) was a part of al Qaeda at the time of capture.

SEC. 7. EFFECTIVE DATE.

This Act shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply with respect to individuals who are captured or otherwise come into the custody or under the effective control of the United States on or after that date.

[Dos Equis]

Do not agree with this.  Should not apply to American citizens.  Plus the president can already declare an alien an "enemy combatant," so seems like an unnecessary bill. 

[240 is Back]

Do not agree with this.  Should not apply to American citizens.  Plus the president can already declare an alien an "enemy combatant," so seems like an unnecessary bill. 

it's unnecessary in 2010.

But come 2012, when Palin loses the general election and 300k morons decide it's time for CW2, we'll have a place to keep them safe.

[Dos Equis]

it's unnecessary in 2010.

But come 2012, when Palin loses the general election and 300k morons decide it's time for CW2, we'll have a place to keep them safe.

lol.  More Palin obsession. 

[tonymctones]

it's unnecessary in 2010.

But come 2012, when Palin loses the general election and 300k morons decide it's time for CW2, we'll have a place to keep them safe.

LOL does your wife know youre so obsessed with another woman?

[Soul Crusher]

LOL does your wife know youre so obsessed with another woman?

He probably makes his wife wear glasses and outfits like Palin does. 

[tonymctones]

He probably makes his wife wear glasses and outfits like Palin does. 

without a doubt 

[240 is Back]

LOL does your wife know youre so obsessed with another woman?

LOL!  I love my country, what can I say?

[240 is Back]

He probably makes his wife wear glasses and outfits like Palin does. 

hahahahahhahaha  yes, i even leave the RNC price tag/receipt on the pantsuits.

[Dos Equis]

He probably makes his wife wear glasses and outfits like Palin does. 

 

[240 is Back]

careful champ.........

[Dos Equis]

careful champ.........

  Is that a threat?   

[dario73]

  Is that a threat?   

240 will cap you in a sec, bro. Did you see that pic of him with his glock? Man, be careful. He is no joke.

[Dos Equis]

240 will cap you in a sec, bro. Did you see that pic of him with his glock? Man, be careful. He is no joke.

lol.  I've seen.    I think he has trouble distinguishing the internet from real life. 

[24KT]

Do not agree with this.  Should not apply to American citizens.  Plus the president can already declare an alien an "enemy combatant," so seems like an unnecessary bill. 

If America is what she purports to be, ...this should not apply to anyone, ...American citizen or not.

[Dos Equis]

If America is what she purports to be, ...this should not apply to anyone, ...American citizen or not.

Nothing in the Constitution or our society requires us to treat aliens (especially suspected terrorists) the same as American citizens.  We shouldn't.  And for the most part, we don't. 

[Emmortal]

Nothing in the Constitution or our society requires us to treat aliens (especially suspected terrorists) the same as American citizens.  We shouldn't.  And for the most part, we don't. 

For the most part being somewhat accurate =)

[Dos Equis]

For the most part being somewhat accurate =)

Unfortunately. 

[24KT]

Nothing in the Constitution or our society requires us to treat aliens (especially suspected terrorists) the same as American citizens.  We shouldn't.  And for the most part, we don't. 

It is this arrogance & hypocrisy that comes back to bite America in the ass everytime!

America enacts all sorts of policies, unfair, brutal, reprehensible etc., and justifies it by aiming these policies at "others". But inevitably, these unfair & reprehensible crimes will invariably be applied to them. That is what they don't realize until it is too late.

A wise man supports the rights of others so that he too may have rights.
You don't think you can systematically strip away the rights of others, and leave your own intact do you?
America needs to stop pee-ing in the wind, 'cause Karma and Blow-back are a biyatch!

[Dos Equis]

It is this arrogance & hypocrisy that comes back to bite America in the ass everytime!

America enacts all sorts of policies, unfair, brutal, reprehensible etc., and justifies it by aiming these policies at "others". But inevitably, these unfair & reprehensible crimes will invariably be applied to them. That is what they don't realize until it is too late.

A wise man supports the rights of others so that he too may have rights.
You don't think you can systematically strip away the rights of others, and leave your own intact do you?
America needs to stop pee-ing in the wind, 'cause Karma and Blow-back are a biyatch!

What "unfair, brutal, reprehensible" policies are you talking about? 

What I think is if you are an alien and commit a crime in or against my country, and expect the same rights and privileges as U.S. citizens, you can kiss my rear end.  Not you personally. 

[Hedgehog]

What "unfair, brutal, reprehensible" policies are you talking about? 

What I think is if you are an alien and commit a crime in or against my country, and expect the same rights and privileges as U.S. citizens, you can kiss my rear end.  Not you personally. 

Have to disagree with you here.

Obviously you should get the same kind of legal trial regardless of citizenship.

The sentencing may be slightly different however. If someone comes over here and commits a serious crime, and is sentenced. He'll get blacklisted from Sweden for life after serving the time.

If it's a case of suspected terrorism, all the more important that the regular legal proceedings are used. However, having the trial classified and secret if there are parts of the process that is discussed that could damage the nation if disclosed, I think that's totally legit.

But that works best when the legal procedure in itself is held to the same standard as usual.

Then you can limit some transparancy.

Let me be clear about that I'm not really commenting what the sentencing should be. It's just that I think that it would be in any modern society to have high legal standards.

That helps to legitimize itself. Not only towards others. But more importantly, to itself and its citizens.


JMO.

[Dos Equis]

Have to disagree with you here.

Obviously you should get the same kind of legal trial regardless of citizenship.

The sentencing may be slightly different however. If someone comes over here and commits a serious crime, and is sentenced. He'll get blacklisted from Sweden for life after serving the time.

If it's a case of suspected terrorism, all the more important that the regular legal proceedings are used. However, having the trial classified and secret if there are parts of the process that is discussed that could damage the nation if disclosed, I think that's totally legit.

But that works best when the legal procedure in itself is held to the same standard as usual.

Then you can limit some transparancy.

Let me be clear about that I'm not really commenting what the sentencing should be. It's just that I think that it would be in any modern society to have high legal standards.

That helps to legitimize itself. Not only towards others. But more importantly, to itself and its citizens.


JMO.

I disagree.  For the most part, we do give aliens the same rights as citizens in our criminal courts.  But suspected terrorists are a whole different ball game IMO.  They have already successfully attacked us on our soil.  They're constantly plotting more attacks.  An alarming number of "detainees" who are released return to terrorist activities.  They're a threat to our security. 

I have no trouble at all limiting the rights we reserve for our citizens.  It's not like they don't get due process.  They do.  They get a trial.  They have evidence presented against them.  They get a chance to defend themselves.  Nothing wrong with that.  In fact, we go far above and beyond what our enemies and many other foreign countries do.

The one thing I disagree with is holding people indefinitely without charges.   

[OzmO]

What "unfair, brutal, reprehensible" policies are you talking about? 

What I think is if you are an alien and commit a crime in or against my country, and expect the same rights and privileges as U.S. citizens, you can kiss my rear end.  Not you personally. 

More wishing and praying that the big bad evil AmerIca would fail.  That's all that is.

[Dos Equis]

More wishing and praying that the big bad evil AmerIca would fail.  That's all that is.

Yep.  What's ironic is the America haters who continually leech off of American society. 

[24KT]

What "unfair, brutal, reprehensible" policies are you talking about? 

What I think is if you are an alien and commit a crime in or against my country, and expect the same rights and privileges as U.S. citizens, you can kiss my rear end.  Not you personally. 

I'm not talking about criminals (proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers). However someone who is a suspected criminals (innocent until proven guilty) should be given the right to a speedy trial, and not held indefinitely without trial. That's BS. I haven't even gotten into the BS inequity for marginalized Americans.