Herniated disc

[Havenbull]

good stuff here...

[jibr0418]

I know your pain and feel for you. I had a herniated disk in the exact location as you. I had two epidoral shots which did not do much for me, but everyone is different. I ended up having surgery a little over a year ago and have not had any problems since. The surgery was not bad at all. The pain I had went from my upper ass cheek to the bottom of my foot, and I could barely walk. I hope all goes well. Everyone is different so if you can do some rehab it may help you out. For me it did not. Good luck!!

[Krankenstein]

I actually disagree, while I was off work for many months when I had my second main episode  I was obsessed with reading the literature on the subject. When I say literature I say the stuff in the top scientific journals like Spine, Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, Rheumatology, etc.  2nd episode...what did you do for the 1st?

In the end this much is true according to evidence based studies-this is not theoretical stuff- it is the result of following up thousands of patients; As there are many evidence based studies showing efficacy of chiro and physical therapy

Most acute episodes of low back pain improve considerably/disappear within 3/4 months basically regardless of what you do. chiros are BS, PT is BS, Falcons peas are as good as all of that and cheaper   As I have said before, say that to the patient in my office that has done 'everything else for their problem' yet with care has near or complete relief of their problem

Some episodes that have a clear cause as seen by imaging or even better from your symptoms, can be effectively cured by surgery (key hole, minimally invasive, slash that back wide open- whatever- difference between them is recovery time not long term results) Imaging better than the subjective complaint of a patient?  Thats new

The remaining end up in chronic back pain, for which statistically nothing really works, again from the most expensive chiro to peas -statistically it is the same.

However that does not mean that it wont work in you case- say peas- after which you will swearing by the peas- problem is it wont work for 99% of comparable people. So someone else will swear by traction-  you can try one by one. Problem is some of them make you worse,not  better. So experimentation has costs. Same with epidurals....same with facet injections...and same with surgery.  Some patients feel worse...can that person rightfully say 'surgery is the worst thing ever! It doesnt work!'

If possible Learn  to  live with it and avoid heavy opiates since they will only work for a while, then fuck you up and stop working and u are addicted anyway Love the learn to live with it.  Wonder what you would have done if your doc would have said that to you instead of recommending surgery

PS- i am amazed with all this Charo BS- For me it either did nothing or made it worse. There is no evidence what soever chiro is better than falcon's peas

Not going to get into this as I have done in the past.  You are one opinion among many.  Some things work..some things dont.  If going to a physical therapist (PT) improves someones condition and they are stable for the rest of their lives...then it 'worked'.  Same thing with a chiro.  But comparing beans (not peas) to medical treatment is truly asinine.

[vic86]

Wish you a speedy recovery!

[loco]

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[loco]

I actually disagree, while I was off work for many months when I had my second main episode  I was obsessed with reading the literature on the subject. When I say literature I say the stuff in the top scientific journals like Spine, Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, Rheumatology, etc.

In the end this much is true according to evidence based studies-this is not theoretical stuff- it is the result of following up thousands of patients;

Most acute episodes of low back pain improve considerably/disappear within 3/4 months basically regardless of what you do. chiros are BS, PT is BS, Falcons peas are as good as all of that and cheaper  

Some episodes that have a clear cause as seen by imaging or even better from your symptoms, can be effectively cured by surgery (key hole, minimally invasive, slash that back wide open- whatever- difference between them is recovery time not long term results)

The remaining end up in chronic back pain, for which statistically nothing really works, again from the most expensive chiro to peas -statistically it is the same.

However that does not mean that it wont work in you case- say peas- after which you will swearing by the peas- problem is it wont work for 99% of comparable people. So someone else will swear by traction-  you can try one by one. Problem is some of them make you worse,not  better. So experimentation has costs.

If possible Learn  to  live with it and avoid heavy opiates since they will only work for a while, then fuck you up and stop working and u are addicted anyway

PS- i am amazed with all this Charo BS- For me it either did nothing or made it worse. There is no evidence what soever chiro is better than falcon's peas

I agree!  When it comes to chronic back pain, main stream medicine and pseudo doctors(Chiros) have a long way to go.  Too much is yet unknown.  But I do believe the cause is that human beings today spend more time sitting down than ever before.  We sit at work all day, we sit in the car, we sit while we eat, we sit watching tv, we sit at the theater, we sit in the plane, we sit at the gym between sets, we sit while we post on getbig, etc.  Spending this much time sitting down can't be good for your back.  

[Krankenstein]

I agree!  When it comes to chronic back pain, main stream medicine and pseudo doctors(Chiros) have a long way to go.  Too much is yet unknown.  But I do believe the cause is that human beings today spend more time sitting down than ever before.  We sit at work all day, we sit in the car, we sit while we eat, we sit watching tv, we sit at the theater, we sit in the plane, we sit at the gym between sets, we sit while we post on getbig, etc.  Spending this much time sitting down can't be good for your back.  

Yes, because we pseudo docs are so big of shams nearly all nfl, mlb, and nba teams have us on staff 

[loco]

Yes, because we pseudo docs are so big of shams nearly all nfl, mlb, and nba teams have us on staff  

The majority of the population who suffer from back pain are not in the nfl, mlb or nba and therefore do not submit their backs to the same punishment as those athletes do.

Don't get offended, Krankenstein!  Pseudo docs have their place as a cost effective solution for a few conditions.  There are a few good chiros out there, the honest ones who don't hang posters saying that "subluxation" kills, the ones who don't claim chiros can cure all conditions and illnesses, the ones that don't tell people to come in for an adjustment 3 times a week for 9 months, the ones that don't scam the insurance company, the ones who don't bitterly bash real main stream medicine, the ones who don't prescribe bs exercises, etc...very very few.

[Krankenstein]

The majority of the population who suffer from back pain are not in the nfl, mlb or nba and therefore do not submit their backs to the same punishment as those athletes do.

Don't get offended, Krankenstein!  Pseudo docs have their place as a cost effective solution for a few conditions.  There are a few good chiros out there, the honest ones who don't hang posters saying that "subluxation" kills, the ones who don't claim chiros can cure all conditions and illnesses, the ones that don't tell people to come in for an adjustment 3 times a week for 9 months, the ones that don't scam the insurance company, the ones who don't bitterly bash real main stream medicine, the ones who don't prescribe bs exercises, etc...very very few.

Oh yes, the quackwatch guy....you really should investigate Dr. Barrett...errr...actuall y he really isnt a doctor.

Hmm...want to talk about scamming an insurance company?  How about the many MD's that prescribe a certain drug for a patient in order to get kickbacks from a drug company...knowing that the prescription benefits for a patient are pretty much unlimited and as long as the MD says so, the patient will use that drug..needed or not.  Most chiros dont bash mainstream medicine....main stream medicine bashes chiros (much like you do).  As far as comparing the punishment that an athlete puts on their body to a lay person....I never did it.  But think about the length of a career and hits that a NFL player takes....compared to the guy who does concrete manual labor.  Hate to tell you, the manual labor guy will look way worse.  No chiro I know claims to cure all conditions and illnesses.  Not one.  Frequency of treatment?  How about the MD who prescribes physical therapy for a patient 3x/week for 4 - 6 mos?  Is he a scammer?  Oh wait, he is mainstream medicine.  Oh wait, he didnt have the patient get surgery so he is not thinking about the best interest of the patient and their condition.  Prescribe BS exercises?  Hmm..oddly enough the same exercises we prescribe are the same ones physical therapists use...oh wait, they are scammers too.  Yes, folks..the only true doctor, the one who isnt scamming...the one who will get the result you want is the one who cuts you open and then sews you back together (provided he/she even did the correct procedure...oh, wait...no orthopoedic surgeon has ever screwed up a surgery)   .    Thanks Loco for clearing that up for everyone. 

This is as far as I go into this debate/discussion with you.  I know what I do helps many (not all).  I discharge/refer the ones who do not respond to care (according to Mercy Guidelines, FRI's, Oswestry and NDI exams, orthopoedic exams, etc) to an appropriate physician or clinic that might better serve them.

[loco]

Oh yes, the quackwatch guy....you really should investigate Dr. Barrett...errr...actuall y he really isnt a doctor.

Hmm...want to talk about scamming an insurance company?  How about the many MD's that prescribe a certain drug for a patient in order to get kickbacks from a drug company...knowing that the prescription benefits for a patient are pretty much unlimited and as long as the MD says so, the patient will use that drug..needed or not.  Most chiros dont bash mainstream medicine....main stream medicine bashes chiros (much like you do).  As far as comparing the punishment that an athlete puts on their body to a lay person....I never did it.  But think about the length of a career and hits that a NFL player takes....compared to the guy who does concrete manual labor.  Hate to tell you, the manual labor guy will look way worse.  No chiro I know claims to cure all conditions and illnesses.  Not one.  Frequency of treatment?  How about the MD who prescribes physical therapy for a patient 3x/week for 4 - 6 mos?  Is he a scammer?  Oh wait, he is mainstream medicine.  Oh wait, he didnt have the patient get surgery so he is not thinking about the best interest of the patient and their condition.  Prescribe BS exercises?  Hmm..oddly enough the same exercises we prescribe are the same ones physical therapists use...oh wait, they are scammers too.  Yes, folks..the only true doctor, the one who isnt scamming...the one who will get the result you want is the one who cuts you open and then sews you back together (provided he/she even did the correct procedure...oh, wait...no orthopoedic surgeon has ever screwed up a surgery)   .    Thanks Loco for clearing that up for everyone.  

This is as far as I go into this debate/discussion with you.  I know what I do helps many (not all).  I discharge/refer the ones who do not respond to care (according to Mercy Guidelines, FRI's, Oswestry and NDI exams, orthopoedic exams, etc) to an appropriate physician or clinic that might better serve them.

I don't know who Dr. Barrett is.  I have actually seen that poster on the wall of many chiropractor's office whom I have visited.  So I googled it and found it online so that I can post it here in case somebody thought that I was exaggerating.  

Everything I have posted about chiropractors comes from my own personal experience and that of my family and close friends.  I am not a doctor.  I am a patient.  I've seen many chiropractors and all except for one fit everything I say above.  On the other hand, I've never experienced what you describe about main stream doctors.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I, my family and friends have not experienced it.  I only hear or read about it.  So it doesn't happen as often as it has with chiropractors.  

As an example, I had eye corrective surgery from a real eye doctor.  Guess what, for the last 10 years I have been able to see 20/20 with zero complications, where as before I could not see my face in the bathroom mirror without my glasses.  High success rate with low risk.  On the other hand, I've been to many chiropractors since 1990, all but one promised to cure my back pain.  None did...pseudo science.

Good job bashing main stream medicine and validating my point!  I thought you would deny that chiropractors are scammers.  But instead you say that real doctors do it too.  So in your mind that justifies chiropractors' scams.

[funk51]

Well, just had an MRI and it turns out I have a herniated disc at L4L5.  Having an epidural tomm, but if it doesn't improve soon it will require surgery. 

Anyone with recent experience with this shit?

go the exercise route before you do surgery, use surgery only as a last resort.

[TacoBell]

go the exercise route before you do surgery, use surgery only as a last resort.

That's the plan.  I've pretty much been on the couch all week.  Had an epidural on rues which didnt do much.  Scheduled to have another next Tuesday as well.

I am a big proponent of chiro and pt so I'm certainly gonna doss much as I can on that front before resorting to surgery.  Once you cut, you can never uncut.  
Aside fr the discomfort the most irritating part is the mental aspect.  Im used to being a busy body working 60+ hrs a week, but I've just had to shut it down.  Hopefully by next week. I can at least work.

[mantronik]

That's the plan.  I've pretty much been on the couch all week.  Had an epidural on rues which didnt do much.  Scheduled to have another next Tuesday as well.

Why do you think the next epidural will work if the first one didn't work?

[Krankenstein]

Why do you think the next epidural will work if the first one didn't work?

From what I recall epidurals are given three times over a certain span of time.

[TacoBell]

From what I recall epidurals are given three times over a certain span of time.

Correct. 

Don't get offended, Krankenstein!  Pseudo docs have their place as a cost effective solution for a few conditions.  There are a few good chiros out there, the honest ones who don't hang posters saying that "subluxation" kills, the ones who don't claim chiros can cure all conditions and illnesses, the ones that don't tell people to come in for an adjustment 3 times a week for 9 months, the ones that don't scam the insurance company, the ones who don't bitterly bash real main stream medicine, the ones who don't prescribe bs exercises, etc...very very few.

To be fair, and I have no horse in this race, but isn't all medicine corrupted in the exact same manner?
Is it better for me to go to an md who will prescribe me a pill made by some company who see s to be sponsoring everything in the docs office from pens to clipboards and lunch earlier that day?

And as for my insurance, if the doctor doesn't charge as much as he can, am I going to get any of my money back that I lay out every month?  Or if I don't use any insurance for a month will the insurance company apply what I paid to next month?  Probably not, so I'm content to allow my doc to run as high a bill as they'd like in hopes that it means they're interested in having the newest and best treatments in their office for me.

[Krankenstein]

And as for my insurance, if the doctor doesn't charge as much as he can, am I going to get any of my money back that I lay out every month?  Or if I don't use any insurance for a month will the insurance company apply what I paid to next month?  Probably not, so I'm content to allow my doc to run as high a bill as they'd like in hopes that it means they're interested in having the newest and best treatments in their office for me.

Here's the thing that most (including above) don't realize about insurance billing from doctor (doesnt matter what kind).  Doesnt matter if you bill out $1,000 for a procedure.  If the insurance company feels that the reasonable and customary fee for that charge is $100...thats the most you will get.  Some peoples plan call for copays, then there is the matter of co-insurance....so look at it this way:

Lets take an MRI - $1200 is what MRI company charges the insurance company.  Insurance company says, umm..we feel that $800 is reasonable and customary.  Patients plan calls for 80% reimbursement.  MRI company gets paid only $640 for that MRI.  Guess whos responsibility the remaining $560 is?  Patient.

In addition, offices like a chiro or physical therapist dont have carte' blanche to bill $10,000+...a lot of plans have limitations on the number of modalities per visit, maximal amount of reimbursement per service (manipulation, physical medicine), or even the amount of visits a patient can receive.  I am continually confused when a patient comes back and asked why they have a bill (of various amounts) when "they have insurance, why isnt it paying for this"

In addition, there are many times that the insurance provider will request records during the treatment period.  If they feel that the patient isnt progressing like they think they should (no matter if subjectively and/or objectively the patient improves), they will deem further care not medically necessary.

Oh, and regarding the unused benefits question....its just like your car....you pay every year....if you dont get into an accident, your benefits just start right over the next year. 

[Harry R. M. Pitts]

how's the disc now, what treatments have you done?  I pinched my sciatic nerve been progressively getting worse I'm sure its a bulging disc, going to get an MRI on Thursday.   

[TacoBell]

I had my 2nd epidural 10 days ago now, and it has helped considerably.  Im scheduled for my 3rd this coming wed.  Ive been doing decompression therapy 2-3 times each week.  I am able to do most of my daily shit, albeit with discomfort and a back brace on, but I am not confined to lying down all day. I do get tired of being on my feet rather quickly, and use heat/ice at the end of the day everyday when I get home.

[newmom]

I had my 2nd epidural 10 days ago now, and it has helped considerably.  Im scheduled for my 3rd this coming wed.  Ive been doing decompression therapy 2-3 times each week.  I am able to do most of my daily shit, albeit with discomfort and a back brace on, but I am not confined to lying down all day. I do get tired of being on my feet rather quickly, and use heat/ice at the end of the day everyday when I get home.

that does NOT sound like fun

[CalvinH]

I had my 2nd epidural 10 days ago now, and it has helped considerably.  Im scheduled for my 3rd this coming wed.  Ive been doing decompression therapy 2-3 times each week.  I am able to do most of my daily shit, albeit with discomfort and a back brace on, but I am not confined to lying down all day. I do get tired of being on my feet rather quickly, and use heat/ice at the end of the day everyday when I get home.

Damn that sucks!

[Mr Nobody]

I had my 2nd epidural 10 days ago now, and it has helped considerably.  Im scheduled for my 3rd this coming wed.  Ive been doing decompression therapy 2-3 times each week.  I am able to do most of my daily shit, albeit with discomfort and a back brace on, but I am not confined to lying down all day. I do get tired of being on my feet rather quickly, and use heat/ice at the end of the day everyday when I get home.

Sorry to hear back pain sucks just a slight bend will fuck you up. Get well man.

[CalvinH]

I had my 2nd epidural 10 days ago now, and it has helped considerably.  Im scheduled for my 3rd this coming wed.  Ive been doing decompression therapy 2-3 times each week.  I am able to do most of my daily shit, albeit with discomfort and a back brace on, but I am not confined to lying down all day. I do get tired of being on my feet rather quickly, and use heat/ice at the end of the day everyday when I get home.

When you feel a sneeze coming do you wanna cry and need to hold on to something

[TacoBell]

When you feel a sneeze coming do you wanna cry and need to hold on to something

Have you ever sneezed on a chick?  Its a pretty funny thing to do, if you're standing next to her and just sneeze on her and don't cover your nose lol