Author Topic: So if the Federal Government shuts down....  (Read 5949 times)

Freeborn126

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So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« on: April 03, 2011, 05:56:06 PM »
Is that really a bad thing?  Wouldn't we save a bunch of money?  The states and local goverments can take care of themselves just fine. 
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Soul Crusher

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2011, 05:57:59 PM »
The govt should be closed 99 percent of the time.

Freeborn126

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 06:43:52 PM »
Honestly, if they just convened every six months or so we would be fine.  If government runs all the time they have to create more and more b.s. laws and huge agencies in order to justify their existence.  Government cannot leave anything alone.
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pro nitrousADRL

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 07:21:36 PM »
Maybe then people will see that life still exists without uncle sam holding their hand, and will learn to figure things out for themself.
down with hussein

chadstallion

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 07:24:40 AM »
does that mean we can be 'late' with our 4/15 filling?
govt shuts down; no postal delivery?
w

pro nitrousADRL

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 07:28:24 AM »
Hey no postal delivery means none of those dam bills.  lol
down with hussein

chadstallion

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 01:42:38 PM »
Hey no postal delivery means none of those dam bills.  lol
shut 'er down !
w

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 03:22:34 PM »
LOL!


OzmO

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 03:25:14 PM »
How many people does the federal government employ?

Soul Crusher

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 03:32:46 PM »
How many people does the federal government employ?


Far too many.     

OzmO

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 03:41:34 PM »

Far too many.     

We agree.  But, how many?

Fury

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 03:48:14 PM »
We agree.  But, how many?

We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers
More Americans work for the government than in manufacturing, farming, fishing, forestry, mining and utilities combined.

By STEPHEN MOORE

If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing. New Jersey has just under two-and-a-half as many government employees as manufacturers. Florida's ratio is more than 3 to 1. So is New York's.

Even Michigan, at one time the auto capital of the world, and Pennsylvania, once the steel capital, have more government bureaucrats than people making things. The leaders in government hiring are Wyoming and New Mexico, which have hired more than six government workers for every manufacturing worker.

Now it is certainly true that many states have not typically been home to traditional manufacturing operations. Iowa and Nebraska are farm states, for example. But in those states, there are at least five times more government workers than farmers. West Virginia is the mining capital of the world, yet it has at least three times more government workers than miners. New York is the financial capital of the world—at least for now. That sector employs roughly 670,000 New Yorkers. That's less than half of the state's 1.48 million government employees.

Don't expect a reversal of this trend anytime soon. Surveys of college graduates are finding that more and more of our top minds want to work for the government. Why? Because in recent years only government agencies have been hiring, and because the offer of near lifetime security is highly valued in these times of economic turbulence. When 23-year-olds aren't willing to take career risks, we have a real problem on our hands. Sadly, we could end up with a generation of Americans who want to work at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

The employment trends described here are explained in part by hugely beneficial productivity improvements in such traditional industries as farming, manufacturing, financial services and telecommunications. These produce far more output per worker than in the past. The typical farmer, for example, is today at least three times more productive than in 1950.

Where are the productivity gains in government? Consider a core function of state and local governments: schools. Over the period 1970-2005, school spending per pupil, adjusted for inflation, doubled, while standardized achievement test scores were flat. Over roughly that same time period, public-school employment doubled per student, according to a study by researchers at the University of Washington. That is what economists call negative productivity.

But education is an industry where we measure performance backwards: We gauge school performance not by outputs, but by inputs. If quality falls, we say we didn't pay teachers enough or we need smaller class sizes or newer schools. If education had undergone the same productivity revolution that manufacturing has, we would have half as many educators, smaller school budgets, and higher graduation rates and test scores.

The same is true of almost all other government services. Mass transit spends more and more every year and yet a much smaller share of Americans use trains and buses today than in past decades. One way that private companies spur productivity is by firing underperforming employees and rewarding excellence. In government employment, tenure for teachers and near lifetime employment for other civil servants shields workers from this basic system of reward and punishment. It is a system that breeds mediocrity, which is what we've gotten.

Most reasonable steps to restrain public-sector employment costs are smothered by the unions. Study after study has shown that states and cities could shave 20% to 40% off the cost of many services—fire fighting, public transportation, garbage collection, administrative functions, even prison operations—through competitive contracting to private providers. But unions have blocked many of those efforts. Public employees maintain that they are underpaid relative to equally qualified private-sector workers, yet they are deathly afraid of competitive bidding for government services.

President Obama says we have to retool our economy to "win the future." The only way to do that is to grow the economy that makes things, not the sector that takes things.

Mr. Moore is senior economics writer for The Wall Street Journal editorial page.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html

Soul Crusher

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 03:52:59 PM »
Case closed.

OzmO

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 04:05:54 PM »
So BF that includes state governments and city workers? 

Skip8282

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 04:06:37 PM »
That's a good article BF posted and we really need to cut down the size.  But, nobody wants a shut down.

Remember, the last time the gov't shutdown, all those employees received back pay for doing nothing.  The only people who are going to work during the shutdown (and not get paid until later) will be emergency essential/mission critical, etc.

That means a lot of people will get a free vacation.  Trim the fat - yes, shut it down - no.

Fury

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 04:36:44 PM »
So BF that includes state governments and city workers? 

It looks like it includes state governments but city workers I'm not 100% on. I'm guessing it's accounting for those people, too.

OzmO

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2011, 04:40:43 PM »
It looks like it includes state governments but city workers I'm not 100% on. I'm guessing it's accounting for those people, too.

That's ficking crazy,  I am sure it would take years to undo this.

Johnny_Blaze

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2011, 06:00:12 PM »
More government workers would mean more people working to benefit the country etc, but SOME HOW the opposite is true. WOW.
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MM2K

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2011, 06:50:06 PM »
What would happen is that all non essential federal government workers, such as National Park employees would automatically be out of work and would not get paid. Its not something that would be horrible but it would be best to avoid it , considering that it couldnt last for very long and the political parties would have to make a compromise anyway.

It would be a bad deal for everybody, and a government shutdown should be avoided. The Republicans should take the $30 billion cut deal.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2011, 06:52:49 PM »
Truly ludicrous how irresponsible obama is being in this.

Cliff Clavin

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2011, 06:53:16 PM »
Hey no postal delivery means none of those dam bills.  lol

fact of the matter is you can never hold a good postman down...

Dos Equis

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2011, 07:35:00 PM »
How many people does the federal government employ?

From the net: 

How many federal employees are there in the US?

At least 2,748,978.

There are 2,748,978 civilian federal employees in the United States as of January 2009. This is according to the Federal Employment Statistics published by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management. Employees with security agencies (CIA, NSA, etc) as well as the National Imagery and Mapping Agency are not included in this number. 97.6% of civilian federal employees work in the executive branch of government.

http://www.numberof.net/number-of-federal-employees-2/

Purge_WTF

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2011, 12:26:01 AM »
  I work for Netflix, and we obviously work with/through the postal service. I asked my boss what will happen with us if there is a shutdown and he couldn't answer.  ??? :-\

George Whorewell

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2011, 04:15:37 AM »
Nothing bad will happen if the government shuts down.

The concept of a "shutdown" is a completely exaggerated ruse to galvanize support for the Democratic party.

Law enforcement will not shut down, essential services will not shut down, the military will not shut down, Jamal Watkins will still be able to pick up his welfare/ unemployment check. The reason why Osama and the dems are shook up over the possibility of a shutdown is because some of the meaningless bureaucrats in the Federal Government might be forced to take an unpaid vacation for a few days. Then, the Dems will blame the alleged "government shutdown" on harming the so called 'Economic Recovery' because the only jobs that were saved or created by the Osama administration are in the public sector.

whork25

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Re: So if the Federal Government shuts down....
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2011, 04:21:10 AM »
More government workers would mean more people working to benefit the country etc, but SOME HOW the opposite is true. WOW.

Yeah but they want to get paid so you need enough taxes and that can only come from the private sector