Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never.

[delta9mda]

ROnnie did not win every round in '98. Flex won the symmetry and Ronnie the muscularity, and then ronnie somehow won the posing round with his horrible routine.

im going to explain this one time; they dont judge the routine they judge the body in the routine.

[NarcissisticDeity]

So if Shawn's small high calves are a flaw, how about Dorian's small high biceps? And one of them torn.
How about flat arms and shoulders that lack roundness? (see his most muscular)

And tell me what is a worse flaw, narrow clavicles and being shorter or having a torn muscle, holding water, having no detail and a distended belly?

You claimed he was more complete it's not true. Was Dorian perfect? NO but according to how contests are judged he won fair & square

[Jaime]

Never seen a good pic of Dorian. Jay has a better build than Dorin nd nobody hangs from Jays nuts.

Shawn, Flex and Kevin should all have an O title.

The judging criteria is clearly flawed if someone with Dorian's build and structure can win multiple olympia's.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Never seen a good pic of Dorian. Jay has a better build than Dorin nd nobody hangs from Jays nuts.

Shawn, Flex and Kevin should all have an O title.

The judging criteria is clearly flawed if someone with Dorian's build and structure can win multiple olympia's.

Says you , you're basing your opinion on preference

[Shockwave]

Never seen a good pic of Dorian. Jay has a better build than Dorin nd nobody hangs from Jays nuts.

Shawn, Flex and Kevin should all have an O title.

The judging criteria is clearly flawed if someone with Dorian's build and structure can win multiple olympia's.

BwahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
You have to be the 1st and only person Ive ever heard of that thinks Jay had a better Physique than Dorian.
Epic lulz.
Every single one of your posts reeks of ignorance based on what look you prefer, and that you have no actual clue on how BB is judged. Lol.
Other than that, your a fine poster. 

[Jaime]

BwahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
You have to be the 1st and only person Ive ever heard of that thinks Jay had a better Physique than Dorian.
Epic lulz.
Every single one of your posts reeks of ignorance based on what look you prefer, and that you have no actual clue on how BB is judged. Lol.
Other than that, your a fine poster. 

On mass monster judging criteria i think Jay has a better build than Dorian. He has a larger structure, More capped delts, bigger bi's, Feathered quads, bigger legs overall, equal calves, better chest, back is weaker, less condition at best.

On what the judging criteria should be Jay is an abomination but then so was Dorian.

No way in hell should Dorian beat a Flex Wheeler.

[NarcissisticDeity]

On mass monster judging criteria i think Jay has a better build than Dorian. He has a larger structure, More capped delts, bigger bi's, Feathered quads, bigger legs overall, equal calves, better chest, back is weaker, less condition at best.

On what the judging criteria should be Jay is an abomination but then so was Dorian.

No way in hell should Dorian beat a Flex Wheeler.

It's all about who meets the judging criteria better in poses NOT PARTS poses win contests my friend and this is where Dorian picked them all apart

You think Jay touches Dorian in any back shot? or side triceps? or latspreads? or ab-thigh? or side chest? I don't think so not by a long shot

NO way in hell should Dorian beat a Flex Wheeler to you again you're biased and like what you like and like what you think should win contests which is why you wouldn't make a good judge you can't be objective.

[Shockwave]

On mass monster judging criteria i think Jay has a better build than Dorian. He has a larger structure, More capped delts, bigger bi's, Feathered quads, bigger legs overall, equal calves, better chest, back is weaker, less condition at best.

On what the judging criteria should be Jay is an abomination but then so was Dorian.

No way in hell should Dorian beat a Flex Wheeler.

Unfortunatley, youre judging based on how you judge things, not how its actually judged.
You dont pick out bodyparts and compare them.
You take the entire mandatory pose, and judge balance and proportion, muscular bulk, and conditioning. Those are the primary things judged.
Dorian flat out has better balance, better proportion and better conditioning than Jay, even though Jay out masses him, Jay has more weak points that Dorian. And he knows how to pose to hide his weak points.

You dont judge by saying, well his back isnt as good, but I like his delts and bi's better, so that means he should win.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Unfortunatley, youre judging based on how you judge things, not how its actually judged.
You dont pick out bodyparts and compare them.
You take the entire mandatory pose, and judge balance and proportion, muscular bulk, and conditioning. Those are the primary things judged.
Dorian flat out has better balance, better proportion and better conditioning than Jay, even though Jay out masses him, Jay has more weak points that Dorian. And he knows how to pose to hide his weak points.

You dont judge by saying, well his back isnt as good, but I like his delts and bi's better, so that means he should win.

Not to mention inferior density and dryness

[JP_RC]

You claimed he was more complete it's not true. Was Dorian perfect? NO but according to how contests are judged he won fair & square

Well, yes I claimed he was more complete and by that I meant he had less flaws. What were Shawn's flaws? His calves according to you and yes his height and narrow clavicles. What were Dorian's flaws that year? He had more than Shawn, which = Shawn being more complete.

[Jaime]

It's all about who meets the judging criteria better in poses NOT PARTS poses win contests my friend and this is where Dorian picked them all apart

You think Jay touches Dorian in any back shot? or side triceps? or latspreads? or ab-thigh? or side chest? I don't think so not by a long shot

NO way in hell should Dorian beat a Flex Wheeler to you again you're biased and like what you like and like what you think should win contests which is why you wouldn't make a good judge you can't be objective.

It is being objective ND. I like Dorian, i respect him and they way he trained and conducted himself. I have no great admiration for Flex, but from a physique standpoint there is no debate.

My statement is akin to saying no way should that tractor beat a ferrari in a race.

Dorian isn't on his own here, Ronnie, Nasser, Gunther and the like are in the same boat.

[Shockwave]

Not to mention inferior density and dryness

The only pose I see Dorian losing to Jay is the FDB.

FDB - Jay
FLS - Dorian
Ab thigh - Dorian, easily.
Side Tri - Dorian
Side chest - Cant recall what jay's looks like, so ill leave it alone
RDB - Dorian
RLS - Dorian

Thats pretty much how it would go.
So his feathered legs, better delts, bigger bi's, none of that matters, cause the whole POSE looks inferior to Dorian.

See what im getting at now Jaimie?

[JP_RC]

Hell, I don't even like Dorian (obvious ), but he is definitively better than Jay.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Well, yes I claimed he was more complete and by that I meant he had less flaws. What were Shawn's flaws? His calves according to you and yes his height and narrow clavicles. What were Dorian's flaws that year? He had more than Shawn, which = Shawn being more complete.

Shawns flaws? height ( it's a factor ) weight ( muscular bulk it's a factor ) small high calves that are not in proportion with his quads , short legs , no back or clavicle width which is counterproductive to having a truly balance & proportioned physique , Shawn my meet part of the symmetry better but not all of it

Dorian's flaws in 94 torn bicep , shitty tan his conditioning wasn't exactly 100% 93 but eons better than anyone.

there was NO contest

[Jaime]

The only pose I see Dorian losing to Jay is the FDB.

FDB - Jay
FLS - Dorian
Ab thigh - Dorian, easily.
Side Tri - Dorian Jay
Side chest - Cant recall what jay's looks like, so ill leave it alone Jay
RDB - Dorian
RLS - Dorian Jay

Thats pretty much how it would go.
So his feathered legs, better delts, bigger bi's, none of that matters, cause the whole POSE looks inferior to Dorian.

See what im getting at now Jaimie?

It seems pretty even to me tbh.

[tendonitis]

Not to mention inferior density and dryness

Like comparing a water balloon to a piece of granite.
Yates' lat thickness is insane.

[NarcissisticDeity]

It is being objective ND. I like Dorian, i respect him and they way he trained and conducted himself. I have no great admiration for Flex, but from a physique standpoint there is no debate.

My statement is akin to saying no way should that tractor beat a ferrari in a race.

Dorian isn't on his own here, Ronnie, Nasser, Gunther and the like are in the same boat.

Dorian is a Viper ARC and Shawn or whoever you're using in the analogy is a Ferrari , while not as aesthetically pleasing or athletic it gets the job done

[Shockwave]

It seems pretty even to me tbh.

Lol.
Jay's back is a joke compared to Dorian, his RLS isnt anywhere near the same level as Dorian, not to mention Dorian has one of the greatest side tri's ever.

[NarcissisticDeity]

It seems pretty even to me tbh.

No contest

[Shockwave]

Yeah not a chance Jay's Rear Lat is anywhere near Doz.
Dorian is pretty much accepted to have top 2 backs of all time.
Jay isnt in the top 10 really.

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[Jaime]

I think Jay takes side tri.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think Jay takes side tri.

Not to scale because Jay isn't the same height as Dorian and he looks soft in that shot , at least compared to Dorian

[Shockwave]

I think Jay takes side tri.

Isnt Jay noticeably shorter than Dorian?
Dorian looking harder, better proportioned, and whats funny is even though Jay is supposedly like 30 lbs heavier than Dorian AND SHORTER, Dorian looks to be the same size everywhere with better condition.
Crazy. Lol. Dorian even has better shape to his muscles.
Honestly Jaimie what are you seeing when you look at that pic? Do you just hate Dorian that much?

[JP_RC]

Shawns flaws? height ( it's a factor ) weight ( muscular bulk it's a factor ) small high calves that are not in proportion with his quads , short legs , no back or clavicle width which is counterproductive to having a truly balance & proportioned physique , Shawn my meet part of the symmetry better but not all of it

Dorian's flaws in 94 torn bicep , shitty tan his conditioning wasn't exactly 100% 93 but eons better than anyone.

there was NO contest

Ok, so Shawn's major flaws were height and narrow clavicles. Muscular bulk I agree, but one thing about bodybuilding is the illusion of size one portrays on stage and Shawn had that. That's how he had arms, legs, shoulders, chest, etc. that looked just as big as Dorian's despite inferior muscular "bulk". So what is more important bulk or illusion of size? How did super light guys like Frank Zane beat heavier guys?

And Dorian's only flaws were the torn bicep and shitty tan?

If you're saying Shawn's high calves were a flaw, how can you possibly not take into consideration Dorian's odd quads that looked narrow? Or his flat arms that lacked roundness? Or his delts that lacked the capped look?

And I think Dorian himself said that he was holding water that year, which explains his lack of detail and separation from the front.

And Shawn was a better poser to boot.