Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never.

[Jaime]

Isnt Jay noticeably shorter than Dorian?
Dorian looking harder, better proportioned, and whats funny is even though Jay is supposedly like 30 lbs heavier than Dorian AND SHORTER, Dorian looks to be the same size everywhere with better condition.
Crazy. Lol. Dorian even has better shape to his muscles.
Honestly Jaimie what are you seeing when you look at that pic? Do you just hate Dorian that much?

I like him, he is probably one of the only pro's who isn't an imbecilic douche, Jay looks a lot better in that pic to me however.

[mesmorph78]

ROnnie did not win every round in '98. Flex won the symmetry and Ronnie the muscularity, and then ronnie somehow won the posing round with his horrible routine.

ronnie blew flex away watch ronnies posing routine...
no one was close.... imo

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ok, so Shawn's major flaws were height and narrow clavicles. Muscular bulk I agree, but one thing about bodybuilding is the illusion of size one portrays on stage and Shawn had that. That's how he had arms, legs, shoulders, chest, etc. that looked just as big as Dorian's despite inferior muscular "bulk". So what is more important bulk or illusion of size? How did super light guys like Frank Zane beat heavier guys?

And Dorian's only flaws were the torn bicep and shitty tan?

If you're saying Shawn's high calves were a flaw, how can you possibly not take into consideration Dorian's odd quads that looked narrow? Or his flat arms that lacked roundness? Or his delts that lacked the capped look?

And I think Dorian himself said that he was holding water that year, which explains his lack of detail and separation from the front.

And Shawn was a better poser to boot.

Ok, so Shawn's major flaws were height and narrow clavicles. Muscular bulk I agree, but one thing about bodybuilding is the illusion of size one portrays on stage and Shawn had that. That's how he had arms, legs, shoulders, chest, etc. that looked just as big as Dorian's despite inferior muscular "bulk". So what is more important bulk or illusion of size? How did super light guys like Frank Zane beat heavier guys?

Yeah sure he did see pic 1 and 2D picture don't represent really what happened and the illusion of size help Shawn beat heavier guys like Nasser ever wonder why not Dorian? because Dorian didn't just beat him on size alone . and no illusion of width

And Dorian's only flaws were the torn bicep and shitty tan?

If you're saying Shawn's high calves were a flaw, how can you possibly not take into consideration Dorian's odd quads that looked narrow? Or his flat arms that lacked roundness? Or his delts that lacked the capped look?

You think his quads look odd , I don't in fact an IFBB judge at the 1994 Olympia when asked who had the best LEGS in the contest said Yates , flat arms?  you think he has Mattarazzo's square biceps?  and his delts you're desperately looking for any angle to improve Shawn's place and its POSES NOT PARTS that win contests , Dorian beats then all in MANDATORY POSES


and Dorian never said his conditioning was off in 94 , it may have been off slightly from 93 but still eons better than everyone else , and remember it's easy to ripped when you're 200lbs try it at 262lbs , this is what separates Dorian from almost everyone

and Shawn is a better poser? you're prone to making base declarations with no explanation , why is Shawn a better poser? because he poses to slow music and spins around? opppssssss forgot ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS and I think Shawn is a great poser he put a lot of work into his rountines and practiced his mandatories but Dorian is NO slocuh in physique presentation and hiding his weaknesses , apples V oranges , Shawn's posing wouldn't work for Dorian and vice versa

[JP_RC]

Yeah sure he did see pic 1 and 2D picture don't represent really what happened and the illusion of size help Shawn beat heavier guys like Nasser ever wonder why not Dorian? because Dorian didn't just beat him on size alone . and no illusion of width


You think his quads look odd , I don't in fact an IFBB judge at the 1994 Olympia when asked who had the best LEGS in the contest said Yates , flat arms?  you think he has Mattarazzo's square biceps?  and his delts you're desperately looking for any angle to improve Shawn's place and its POSES NOT PARTS that win contests , Dorian beats then all in MANDATORY POSES


and Dorian never said his conditioning was off in 94 , it may have been off slightly from 93 but still eons better than everyone else , and remember it's easy to ripped when you're 200lbs try it at 262lbs , this is what separates Dorian from almost everyone

and Shawn is a better poser? you're prone to making base declarations with no explanation , why is Shawn a better poser? because he poses to slow music and spins around? opppssssss forgot ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS and I think Shawn is a great poser he put a lot of work into his rountines and practiced his mandatories but Dorian is NO slocuh in physique presentation and hiding his weaknesses , apples V oranges , Shawn's posing wouldn't work for Dorian and vice versa

Yeah sure he did see pic 1 and 2D picture don't represent really what happened and the illusion of size help Shawn beat heavier guys like Nasser ever wonder why not Dorian? because Dorian didn't just beat him on size alone . and no illusion of width

Sure, the majority of the times Shawn faced Dorian he was beat because the latter had more advantages than just size (93 & 95 as an example), but 94 was different.

You think his quads look odd , I don't in fact an IFBB judge at the 1994 Olympia when asked who had the best LEGS in the contest said Yates , flat arms?  you think he has Mattarazzo's square biceps?  and his delts you're desperately looking for any angle to improve Shawn's place and its POSES NOT PARTS that win contests , Dorian beats then all in MANDATORY POSES


and Dorian never said his conditioning was off in 94 , it may have been off slightly from 93 but still eons better than everyone else , and remember it's easy to ripped when you're 200lbs try it at 262lbs , this is what separates Dorian from almost everyone

and Shawn is a better poser? you're prone to making base declarations with no explanation , why is Shawn a better poser? because he poses to slow music and spins around? opppssssss forgot ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS and I think Shawn is a great poser he put a lot of work into his rountines and practiced his mandatories but Dorian is NO slocuh in physique presentation and hiding his weaknesses , apples V oranges , Shawn's posing wouldn't work for Dorian and vice versa

The only reason I brought up "parts" is because you did it first mentioning Shawn's calves. So, if its poses not parts that wins contests, why bring up Shawn's high calves? Because it hurts the pose correct? Well, same for Dorian arms and delts as they hurt most of his front poses.

I think a link was posted from a Dorian interview by someone some time ago and he literally said he was holding water.

They are both good at hitting the mandatories, but Shawn delivers better posing routines, he is more creative and 'flows' better. His transitions are also better. Dorian was an awkward poser.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Sure, the majority of the times Shawn faced Dorian he was beat because the latter had more advantages than just size (93 & 95 as an example), but 94 was different.

The only reason I brought up "parts" is because you did it first mentioning Shawn's calves. So, if its poses not parts that wins contests, why bring up Shawn's high calves? Because it hurts the pose correct? Well, same for Dorian arms and delts as they hurt most of his front poses.

I think a link was posted from a Dorian interview by someone some time ago and he literally said he was holding water.

They are both good at hitting the mandatories, but Shawn delivers better posing routines, he is more creative and 'flows' better. His transitions are also better. Dorian was an awkward poser.

Sure, the majority of the times Shawn faced Dorian he was beat because the latter had more advantages than just size (93 & 95 as an example), but 94 was different.

No it wasn't it was business as usual

The only reason I brought up "parts" is because you did it first mentioning Shawn's calves. So, if its poses not parts that wins contests, why bring up Shawn's high calves? Because it hurts the pose correct? Well, same for Dorian arms and delts as they hurt most of his front poses.

No you asked me what his flaws were and I responded and Dorian's delts hurt his front poses? and arms ? triceps , biceps and forearms? you're taking liberties again with blanket statements

I think a link was posted from a Dorian interview by someone some time ago and he literally said he was holding water.

I don't ever recall that statement and believe me I seen them all , maybe he was off just a tad compared to 93 but his conditioning & density are unequaled anyway so saying Dorian is off of off Dorian is still ain't saying much

They are both good at hitting the mandatories, but Shawn delivers better posing routines, he is more creative and 'flows' better. His transitions are also better. Dorian was an awkward poser.

I disagree about Yates being an awkward poser I think he was very good , maybe Shawn had a ' better ' routine it's still a physique round so he should lose that's the whole point of every round being a physique round , if one guy meets part of the criteria better than another he shouldn't win that round if he's lacking in other parts and according to the judges he was lacking directly compared to Dorian and was very lucky to beat Kevin


 quote Shawn Ray Flex Jan 1995 " Tonight I feel I got what I deserved "

Flex magazine January 1995 Shawn Ray

Dorian was a bigger version of what he's been. I'm not a fan in the sense that his physique is something I aspire to attain. Dorian is in his own class and in his own little world. For that reason, there's nobody they can compare like-to-like with Dorian. They can only bring forward a different package.

( 1994 Mr Olympia ) Tonight I feel that I got what I deserved. With a beaming smile , Shawn concluded: " This is the first time in three years I haven't ' retired ' the night of the show and got drunk. "

quote Ironman Jan 1995 " Since he ( Ray ) was trailing Levrone by four points going into round 3 ( posing round ) Shawn was going to have to equal his showing of seven years ago ( Nationals win ) to have a chance of passing Levrone "


quote Ironman Jan 1995 " The battle was between Shawn and Kevin for second "

Kevin has it all but was a little soft in prejudging , which hurt him. He wasn't quite as sharp as Shawn , but it was very close between second and third. It came down to the posedown ( Which Shawn won by a single point ).

[powerbar]

Every round is a physique round. That explains why Dorian won the symmetry round despite having horrible symmetry.

Of course every round is a physique round.  What did you think symmetry is referring to?  It is the physique round where the balance  of the physique is judged.

He won the posing rounds as well and why? ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS and height isn't part of the judging criteria? how do you know? you can't even figure out how Dorian won the ' symmetry ' round

Of course all rounds are physique rounds.  Height isn’t a part of the judging criteria because they follow a certain criteria.  They have it in writing just like the NPC has.  Without a standard, the judging is worthless.  I have no problems figuring out how Dorian won the symmetry and posing rounds.  It was a gift from the judges that wanted to stick with a certain physique.  Your thought that the ones that are biased are the ones that have gone against the decision that was made 6 times doesn’t make much sense.  The ones that think Dorian should be in the top 3 in symmetry have been brain washed.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Of course every round is a physique round.  What did you think symmetry is referring to?  It is the physique round where the balance  of the physique is judged.

Of course all rounds are physique rounds.  Height isn’t a part of the judging criteria because they follow a certain criteria.  They have it in writing just like the NPC has.  Without a standard, the judging is worthless.  I have no problems figuring out how Dorian won the symmetry and posing rounds.  It was a gift from the judges that wanted to stick with a certain physique.  Your thought that the ones that are biased are the ones that have gone against the decision that was made 6 times doesn’t make much sense.  The ones that think Dorian should be in the top 3 in symmetry have been brain washed.

Of course every round is a physique round.  What did you think symmetry is referring to?  It is the physique round where the balance  of the physique is judged.

WRONG balance of the physique is judged in EVERY ROUND IN EVERY POSE symmetry alone is NOT , I repeat is NOT judged as a sole and separate entity , muscular bulk , muscle density , muscle dryness , are all judged in the symmetry round , ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS , the balance of the physique is judged in the muscularity round , in the posing rounds , in the symmetry round as is the rest of the criteria

Of course all rounds are physique rounds.  Height isn’t a part of the judging criteria because they follow a certain criteria.  They have it in writing just like the NPC has.  Without a standard, the judging is worthless.  I have no problems figuring out how Dorian won the symmetry and posing rounds.  It was a gift from the judges that wanted to stick with a certain physique.  Your thought that the ones that are biased are the ones that have gone against the decision that was made 6 times doesn’t make much sense.  The ones that think Dorian should be in the top 3 in symmetry have been brain washed.

WRONG again , see above. and height isn't part of the judging criteria? nonsense it's a factor not a major one but part of the entire package

No you do have a problem figuring it out Dorian won the symmetry round because symmetry alone is NOT the only criteria being assessed , Dorian won the symmetry round because he had superior muscular bulk AND superior muscle density AND superior muscle dryness AND superior posing AND superior balance AND superior proportions these are the reasons he won , not for your lame rational and the judges are biased towards the physique that meets ALL of the criteria better than their contemporaries

[MCWAY]

Shawns flaws? height ( it's a factor ) weight ( muscular bulk it's a factor ) small high calves that are not in proportion with his quads , short legs , no back or clavicle width which is counterproductive to having a truly balance & proportioned physique , Shawn my meet part of the symmetry better but not all of it

Dorian's flaws in 94 torn bicep , shitty tan his conditioning wasn't exactly 100% 93 but eons better than anyone.

there was NO contest

How is height a flaw, when at least FOUR of the Mr. O winners are 5'7" or shorter (Columbu, Dickerson, Bannout, Jackson)?

[JP_RC]

No it wasn't it was business as usual

No you asked me what his flaws were and I responded and Dorian's delts hurt his front poses? and arms ? triceps , biceps and forearms? you're taking liberties again with blanket statements

I don't ever recall that statement and believe me I seen them all , maybe he was off just a tad compared to 93 but his conditioning & density are unequaled anyway so saying Dorian is off of off Dorian is still ain't saying much

I disagree about Yates being an awkward poser I think he was very good , maybe Shawn had a ' better ' routine it's still a physique round so he should lose that's the whole point of every round being a physique round , if one guy meets part of the criteria better than another he shouldn't win that round if he's lacking in other parts and according to the judges he was lacking directly compared to Dorian and was very lucky to beat Kevin


 quote Shawn Ray Flex Jan 1995 " Tonight I feel I got what I deserved "

Flex magazine January 1995 Shawn Ray

Dorian was a bigger version of what he's been. I'm not a fan in the sense that his physique is something I aspire to attain. Dorian is in his own class and in his own little world. For that reason, there's nobody they can compare like-to-like with Dorian. They can only bring forward a different package.

( 1994 Mr Olympia ) Tonight I feel that I got what I deserved. With a beaming smile , Shawn concluded: " This is the first time in three years I haven't ' retired ' the night of the show and got drunk. "

quote Ironman Jan 1995 " Since he ( Ray ) was trailing Levrone by four points going into round 3 ( posing round ) Shawn was going to have to equal his showing of seven years ago ( Nationals win ) to have a chance of passing Levrone "


quote Ironman Jan 1995 " The battle was between Shawn and Kevin for second "

Kevin has it all but was a little soft in prejudging , which hurt him. He wasn't quite as sharp as Shawn , but it was very close between second and third. It came down to the posedown ( Which Shawn won by a single point ).

Well, you responded to Shawn's flaws with his high calves and I did the same with Dorian with is biceps, quads, etc. I don't get why you can use "parts" as a flaw, but I can't.
And yes, his flat arms and delts hurt his front poses like the FDB, side chest, or both the most muscular poses. The torn bicep hurt him the most, what do you think looks worse a torn bicep or high calves?

As far as the conditioning goes, even if Dorian's off condition was better than the others due to his density (according to you), he was still holding water and that prevented him from showing detail and separation from the front poses especially.

I didn't mean Shawn should've won the posing round due to his better posing, I just pointed out one more advantage he had (better posing) for him to meet all of the criteria better.

Now the judging was a bit messed up if Kevin was soft in the prejudging and had inferior conditioning to Shawn, yet he was ahead of him by 4 points? And then, Shawn beat him only with his posing routine?
And you're saying judging is always perfect?

[NarcissisticDeity]

How is height a flaw, when at least FOUR of the Mr. O winners are 5'7" or shorter (Columbu, Dickerson, Bannout, Jackson)?

It's all relative to who you're competing with , remember a good big man will always beat a good small man , with all things being equal it's a tall mans game and the majority Olympia winners have all been 5'9" and over

[NarcissisticDeity]

Well, you responded to Shawn's flaws with his high calves and I did the same with Dorian with is biceps, quads, etc. I don't get why you can use "parts" as a flaw, but I can't.
And yes, his flat arms and delts hurt his front poses like the FDB, side chest, or both the most muscular poses. The torn bicep hurt him the most, what do you think looks worse a torn bicep or high calves?

As far as the conditioning goes, even if Dorian's off condition was better than the others due to his density (according to you), he was still holding water and that prevented him from showing detail and separation from the front poses especially.

I didn't mean Shawn should've won the posing round due to his better posing, I just pointed out one more advantage he had (better posing) for him to meet all of the criteria better.

Now the judging was a bit messed up if Kevin was soft in the prejudging and had inferior conditioning to Shawn, yet he was ahead of him by 4 points? And then, Shawn beat him only with his posing routine?
And you're saying judging is always perfect?

Well, you responded to Shawn's flaws with his high calves and I did the same with Dorian with is biceps, quads, etc. I don't get why you can use "parts" as a flaw, but I can't.
And yes, his flat arms and delts hurt his front poses like the FDB, side chest, or both the most muscular poses. The torn bicep hurt him the most, what do you think looks worse a torn bicep or high calves?

You can do whatever you'd like but again I was responding to your query on what Shawn's flaws were when you claimed he was more complete. And NO his ARMS aren't ' flat ' arms include biceps , triceps and forearms. And two small high calves not in proportion with the quads are worse than ONE bicep shorter than the other

As far as the conditioning goes, even if Dorian's off condition was better than the others due to his density (according to you), he was still holding water and that prevented him from showing detail and separation from the front poses especially.

You insist he was holding water I don't again his only problem was his tan and bicep and ironically that's what Shawn bitched about not his conditioning or anything else

Now the judging was a bit messed up if Kevin was soft in the prejudging and had inferior conditioning to Shawn, yet he was ahead of him by 4 points? And then, Shawn beat him only with his posing routine?
And you're saying judging is always perfect?

Please show me where I said the judging is always perfect? and you think Shawn's strength in conditioning over Kev can compensate for his other flaws against him? you're only seeing what you want , Kev was holding a little bit of water in the prejudging not like he was out of shape , Ronnie was holding water in 2000 and won easily , Shawn doesn't touch Kev in width or size or structure

Shawn has a lot of flaws even when not compared to Dorian , Shawn was a great guy to stand in when other real tier 1 guys were off , Shawn was lucky Kevin was slightly off and only beat him with the best physique he's ever presented and it wasn't by much , what does this say about Shawn? he's not as good as people wished he was

Even Dorian thought Kev beat Shawn in 94 because when all three were standing around Dorian turned to Kev and said it looks like me and you again A'la 92

[JP_RC]

You can do whatever you'd like but again I was responding to your query on what Shawn's flaws were when you claimed he was more complete. And NO his ARMS aren't ' flat ' arms include biceps , triceps and forearms. And two small high calves not in proportion with the quads are worse than ONE bicep shorter than the other


You insist he was holding water I don't again his only problem was his tan and bicep and ironically that's what Shawn bitched about not his conditioning or anything else


Please show me where I said the judging is always perfect? and you think Shawn's strength in conditioning over Kev can compensate for his other flaws against him? you're only seeing what you want , Kev was holding a little bit of water in the prejudging not like he was out of shape , Ronnie was holding water in 2000 and won easily , Shawn doesn't touch Kev in width or size or structure

Shawn has a lot of flaws even when not compared to Dorian , Shawn was a great guy to stand in when other real tier 1 guys were off , Shawn was lucky Kevin was slightly off and only beat him with the best physique he's ever presented and it wasn't by much , what does this say about Shawn? he's not as good as people wished he was

Even Dorian thought Kev beat Shawn in 94 because when all three were standing around Dorian turned to Kev and said it looks like me and you again A'la 92

You can do whatever you'd like but again I was responding to your query on what Shawn's flaws were when you claimed he was more complete. And NO his ARMS aren't ' flat ' arms include biceps , triceps and forearms. And two small high calves not in proportion with the quads are worse than ONE bicep shorter than the other

Flat arms and delts compared to the other 2:





And I'm not even showing the FDB which is worse.

You insist he was holding water I don't again his only problem was his tan and bicep and ironically that's what Shawn bitched about not his conditioning or anything else

I think it was even worse at the prejudging.

Please show me where I said the judging is always perfect? and you think Shawn's strength in conditioning over Kev can compensate for his other flaws against him? you're only seeing what you want , Kev was holding a little bit of water in the prejudging not like he was out of shape , Ronnie was holding water in 2000 and won easily , Shawn doesn't touch Kev in width or size or structure

Shawn has a lot of flaws even when not compared to Dorian , Shawn was a great guy to stand in when other real tier 1 guys were off , Shawn was lucky Kevin was slightly off and only beat him with the best physique he's ever presented and it wasn't by much , what does this say about Shawn? he's not as good as people wished he was

Even Dorian thought Kev beat Shawn in 94 because when all three were standing around Dorian turned to Kev and said it looks like me and you again A'la 92

Well, you always insist judges never make mistakes on contests and that the results are the indisputable facts. Shawn is lighter than Kevin, but looked just as big. Kevin was also known for having narrow clavicles and he was taller than Shawn, I don't know how much wider he could be. And Kevin had a better structure? how about missing a back or calves?

And give me a break on Shawn being lucky at beating Kevin. He did so 4 times at least, yeah real luck.  

[NarcissisticDeity]

Flat arms and delts compared to the other 2:

And I'm not even showing the FDB which is worse.

I think it was even worse at the prejudging.
 
Well, you always insist judges never make mistakes on contests and that the results are the indisputable facts. Shawn is lighter than Kevin, but looked just as big. Kevin was also known for having narrow clavicles and he was taller than Shawn, I don't know how much wider he could be. And Kevin had a better structure? how about missing a back or calves?

And give me a break on S.  
hawn being lucky at beating Kevin. He did so 4 times at least, yeah real luck

Flat arms and delts compared to the other 2:

And I'm not even showing the FDB which is worse.

Let's entertain it's true they are ' flat '   wanna pick parts Dorian blows both of them out of the water on? textbook Hulkster move pick a part harp on it and claim he should have loose , great logic  

Well, you always insist judges never make mistakes on contests and that the results are the indisputable facts. Shawn is lighter than Kevin, but looked just as big. Kevin was also known for having narrow clavicles and he was taller than Shawn, I don't know how much wider he could be. And Kevin had a better structure? how about missing a back or calves?

Please show me where I ever typed the judged never make mistakes , you keep insist wrongly I feel this way or believe this , unless you have a quote of me saying that you should ask before you type , and you're basing everything on 2D pics , watch the vid it's evident if Shawn looked just as big and Kev's clavicles aren't as wide as lets say Dorian but his delts help compensate for this a tad and his back was thicker and wider than Shawn's , Shawn has a good back highly detailed but no width or thickness , not compared to Kevin or Dorian , Kev had calves NOT like Yates but I believe they were fuller and not high like Shawn

And give me a break on S.  
hawn being lucky at beating Kevin. He did so 4 times at least, yeah real luck

LUCKY so what Shawn beat him four times in his career , shall I count the number of times Kev beat him? he was LUCKY to beat Kevin at this contest and did it only slightly with the best physique of his career , Kevin 1995 would have left Shawn for dead at his best he's simply much better , Shawn's not as great as you think he is

[GroinkTropin]

i don t understand why people say dorian was off in 1994

only his tan was

he gained size and was as hard as in 1993

ok his bi was torn but he was much more muscular , massive and harder than any other competitor ecept münzer, but münzer was thin comp to him

watch 1994 german gp video to see how good he was in 1994

the only year he was off was 1997, when he had to go all for size because of his severe triceps injurie, unable to train he just upped the dose to be at least the biggest

Lazy guy's around here sometimes..

[JP_RC]

Let's entertain it's true they are ' flat '   wanna pick parts Dorian blows both of them out of the water on? textbook Hulkster move pick a part harp on it and claim he should have loose , great logic  


Please show me where I ever typed the judged never make mistakes , you keep insist wrongly I feel this way or believe this , unless you have a quote of me saying that you should ask before you type , and you're basing everything on 2D pics , watch the vid it's evident if Shawn looked just as big and Kev's clavicles aren't as wide as lets say Dorian but his delts help compensate for this a tad and his back was thicker and wider than Shawn's , Shawn has a good back highly detailed but no width or thickness , not compared to Kevin or Dorian , Kev had calves NOT like Yates but I believe they were fuller and not high like Shawn

LUCKY so what Shawn beat him four times in his career , shall I count the number of times Kev beat him? he was LUCKY to beat Kevin at this contest and did it only slightly with the best physique of his career , Kevin 1995 would have left Shawn for dead at his best he's simply much better , Shawn's not as great as you think he is

Let's entertain it's true they are ' flat '  wanna pick parts Dorian blows both of them out of the water on? textbook Hulkster move pick a part harp on it and claim he should have loose , great logic 

You asked for proof of flat arms & delts and I posted it, simple. I'm not claiming they win because of parts, just showing Dorian's disadvantages. As you keep saying he was the most complete.

Please show me where I ever typed the judged never make mistakes , you keep insist wrongly I feel this way or believe this , unless you have a quote of me saying that you should ask before you type , and you're basing everything on 2D pics , watch the vid it's evident if Shawn looked just as big and Kev's clavicles aren't as wide as lets say Dorian but his delts help compensate for this a tad and his back was thicker and wider than Shawn's , Shawn has a good back highly detailed but no width or thickness , not compared to Kevin or Dorian , Kev had calves NOT like Yates but I believe they were fuller and not high like Shawn

LUCKY so what Shawn beat him four times in his career , shall I count the number of times Kev beat him? he was LUCKY to beat Kevin at this contest and did it only slightly with the best physique of his career , Kevin 1995 would have left Shawn for dead at his best he's simply much better , Shawn's not as great as you think he is

I don't have a quote of that, but that is the impression you give. And again, Shawn was lucky to beat Kevin with better conditioning and less flaws? Seriously, wtf is wrong with the judging or your assessment?
Don't forget Kevin has the same short legs you always talk about Shawn. And I don't see Kevin's back being thicker. Shawn's calves are also better than Kevin's. What about Kev's overpowering delts? Proportion?

[NarcissisticDeity]

You asked for proof of flat arms & delts and I posted it, simple. I'm not claiming they win because of parts, just showing Dorian's disadvantages. As you keep saying he was the most complete.

I don't have a quote of that, but that is the impression you give. And again, Shawn was lucky to beat Kevin with better conditioning and less flaws? Seriously, wtf is wrong with the judging or your assessment?
Don't forget Kevin has the same short legs you always talk about Shawn. And I don't see Kevin's back being thicker. Shawn's calves are also better than Kevin's. What about Kev's overpowering delts? Proportion?

You asked for proof of flat arms & delts and I posted it, simple. I'm not claiming they win because of parts, just showing Dorian's disadvantages. As you keep saying he was the most complete.

No I asked how his delts appear flat in the front double biceps pose. He is the most complete , density , dryness , size , balance & proportion

I don't have a quote of that, but that is the impression you give. And again, Shawn was lucky to beat Kevin with better conditioning and less flaws? Seriously, wtf is wrong with the judging or your assessment?
Don't forget Kevin has the same short legs you always talk about Shawn. And I don't see Kevin's back being thicker. Shawn's calves are also better than Kevin's. What about Kev's overpowering delts? Proportion?

You're not typing " I give the impression " I can only go by what you type and what you typed wasn't accurate. And Shawn was lucky to beat Kevin with less flaws?  according to whom? you? Shawn's conditioning was slightly better in the prejudging not so much at the night show , Kev has flaws , I think less than Shawn you disagree , cool but no matter how you slice it Shawn was LUCKY to beat Kev in 1994 and he was actually behind Kev after prejudging , you have a real problem with the judges that's your hang-up it doesn't change reality and Shawn was in the shape of his life and was outclassed by Kevin who wasn't





 

[tendonitis]

that pic is like comparing an amateur to a professional
Yates is made of granite, just look at how hard his delts and the side of his leg are compated to the fridge

[Nirvana]

Let's entertain it's true they are ' flat '   wanna pick parts Dorian blows both of them out of the water on? textbook Hulkster move pick a part harp on it and claim he should have loose , great logic  


Please show me where I ever typed the judged never make mistakes , you keep insist wrongly I feel this way or believe this , unless you have a quote of me saying that you should ask before you type , and you're basing everything on 2D pics , watch the vid it's evident if Shawn looked just as big and Kev's clavicles aren't as wide as lets say Dorian but his delts help compensate for this a tad and his back was thicker and wider than Shawn's , Shawn has a good back highly detailed but no width or thickness , not compared to Kevin or Dorian , Kev had calves NOT like Yates but I believe they were fuller and not high like Shawn

LUCKY so what Shawn beat him four times in his career , shall I count the number of times Kev beat him? he was LUCKY to beat Kevin at this contest and did it only slightly with the best physique of his career , Kevin 1995 would have left Shawn for dead at his best he's simply much better , Shawn's not as great as you think he is

You imply it all the time.  usually using the argument that dorian won the 97 olympia because he was "better".

You never actually say it but you still mean it.  you use the judges decision as your argument a lot.

[newmom]

07 was the biggest Olympia debacle of them all.  The fridge shouldn't have even been in the top 6.

Victor should of  taken the title that year

[NarcissisticDeity]

You imply it all the time.  usually using the argument that dorian won the 97 olympia because he was "better".

You never actually say it but you still mean it.  you use the judges decision as your argument a lot.

He was better that's why he won you can disagree all you want it doesn't change anything , you can win an entire contest even while losing some mandatories which is how Yates won

[tendonitis]

Victor should of  taken the title that year

x2, Vic got robbed big time

[powerbar]

WRONG balance of the physique is judged in EVERY ROUND IN EVERY POSE symmetry alone is NOT , I repeat is NOT judged as a sole and separate entity , muscular bulk , muscle density , muscle dryness , are all judged in the symmetry round , ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS , the balance of the physique is judged in the muscularity round , in the posing rounds , in the symmetry round as is the rest of the criteria

Have you ever taken a course in logic?  You believe that there are different rounds with different names but all are judged just the same even though sometimes the same athlete is ranked differently in the different rounds?  How does this make sense to you?

WRONG again , see above. and height isn't part of the judging criteria? nonsense it's a factor not a major one but part of the entire package

So you actually think that the judges have been instructed to judge on height?  You think that’s written somewhere that in every round the physiques will be judged on height?  Do you realize that these days we have ways of measuring height?  Bodybuilding is qualitative not quantitative.  If it was the bodies would be measured and we’d go home.  Height is and should only be an issue if it renders someone disproportionate or lacking visible muscularity.   

No you do have a problem figuring it out Dorian won the symmetry round because symmetry alone is NOT the only criteria being assessed , Dorian won the symmetry round because he had superior muscular bulk AND superior muscle density AND superior muscle dryness AND superior posing AND superior balance AND superior proportions these are the reasons he won , not for your lame rational and the judges are biased towards the physique that meets ALL of the criteria better than their contemporaries

Do you really think that even Dorian would tell you that he had superior posing, balance and proportions to everyone he ever faced?  You may be brainwashed into thinking everyone that ever won a sandow or even got a placing at an Olympia deserved what they got but most other people aren’t going to fall for that.  You can tell us how you justified certain gifts but don’t expect to recruit others unless you can make a case that is at least consistent.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Have you ever taken a course in logic?  You believe that there are different rounds with different names but all are judged just the same even though sometimes the same athlete is ranked differently in the different rounds?  How does this make sense to you?

So you actually think that the judges have been instructed to judge on height?  You think that’s written somewhere that in every round the physiques will be judged on height?  Do you realize that these days we have ways of measuring height?  Bodybuilding is qualitative not quantitative.  If it was the bodies would be measured and we’d go home.  Height is and should only be an issue if it renders someone disproportionate or lacking visible muscularity.   


Do you really think that even Dorian would tell you that he had superior posing, balance and proportions to everyone he ever faced?  You may be brainwashed into thinking everyone that ever won a sandow or even got a placing at an Olympia deserved what they got but most other people aren’t going to fall for that.  You can tell us how you justified certain gifts but don’t expect to recruit others unless you can make a case that is at least consistent.

Have you ever taken a course in logic?  You believe that there are different rounds with different names but all are judged just the same even though sometimes the same athlete is ranked differently in the different rounds?  How does this make sense to you?

Have you ever read the IFBB judging criteria? read what and how judges ascertain contests? they are absolutely ALL judged the exact same ALL of the criteria is assessed at once

So you actually think that the judges have been instructed to judge on height?  You think that’s written somewhere that in every round the physiques will be judged on height?  Do you realize that these days we have ways of measuring height?  Bodybuilding is qualitative not quantitative.  If it was the bodies would be measured and we’d go home.  Height is and should only be an issue if it renders someone disproportionate or lacking visible muscularity.   

No they are instructed on the criteria and muscle length , muscle balance & proportion are all judged and it's in direct relation to who you're standing with , they don't just say ' lets pick this guy he's taller ' but you'd be once again misinformed if you don't think it's considered it's not coincidence that taller guys can carry more muscular bulk and doing it without compromising their structure and balance & proportions

Do you really think that even Dorian would tell you that he had superior posing, balance and proportions to everyone he ever faced?  You may be brainwashed into thinking everyone that ever won a sandow or even got a placing at an Olympia deserved what they got but most other people aren’t going to fall for that.  You can tell us how you justified certain gifts but don’t expect to recruit others unless you can make a case that is at least consistent.

I think Dorian would say he meet ALL of the criteria better than his contemporaries which is why he was the most dominating bodybuilder in IFBB history. And no I'm not brainwashed I just don't buy contests are fixed because YOU don't like who won for whatever biased reasons you have

[newmom]

x2, Vic got robbed big time

I like you more and more

[NarcissisticDeity]

ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/billdobbins1.htm