A sad state of affairs...... TIME TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY

[Skip8282]

Skip, a conservative administration Totally went against their principles in what was essentially a snap decision and got billions involved in business with our tax money without our consent!

And as you and many others have shown many times it didn't stop there! 

Now we can go on and on about what private citizens can or can't do, but this bail out issue with banks and how our government rolled over for them is the problem not whether or not 333333 can advertise his obsession for OB in the NYT.

If that's how you want to frame the issue, then this doesn't seem to be a 1st Amendment thing.

First, forget the CTs, bipartisan shit, and all the stupid crap.  Bush and Obama acted the way they did because they were trying to do what each thought was best to keep the economy going at the time.  And it probably came from all of their advisors who are political appointees, not the best and the brightest.

And maybe that's the rub - fewer politically appointed positions, and more experience/knowledge based positions?  IDK.

But, I would argue that it's more incompetence (on all sides), than ideology that got us to this point - certainly not the 1st Amendment.

As for 33, he's not bringing down anybody, he's not causing chaos, he's not hurting anyone.  Blacken's on the other side, and he's not doing any harm either.  In fact, the majority of people aren't even interested in politics and most could care less.  Hell, just look at this board - it's pretty much just the same people all the time. 

[Straw Man]

No - what I said is exactly the 1st amendment.    Why should I not be allowed to run ads 24/7 against Obama if I want with my own money? 

how about if a foreign corporation wants to do it and isn't required to reveal who they are, source of funds etc..

are you fine with that too ?

[Soul Crusher]

That is hardly what lobbying is or at least restricted to; people lobby to get favours, Wallstreet lobbies Congress and politicians, get favours, i.e. bailouts. Israel lobbies in Washington for the same reasons and the list is endless. The government should not be in the business of denying or granting favours, only protecting rights.

I agree - but if these pigs in the govt were not given the amount of money to spend/waste, ability to regulate every aspect of our lives, give bailouts, etc etc, people and companies would not feel the need to lobby or seek favors.  

You guys are looking at this from the exact opposite end of the spectrum.  

Ever notice as the govt grows bigger and bigger and bigger these problems seem to multiply?  

[Soul Crusher]

how about if a foreign corporation wants to do it and isn't required to reveal who they are, source of funds etc..

are you fine with that too ?

There should be full disclosure. 

[Skip8282]

What do you think Lobbying is? 

Its people lobbying their govt for something or to stop doing something.  Why would we want to get rid of that?   

I think most people would be surprised to find out how much their own local governments spend in lobbying the federal government to get funds.

[Deicide]

If that's how you want to frame the issue, then this doesn't seem to be a 1st Amendment thing.

First, forget the CTs, bipartisan shit, and all the stupid crap.  Bush and Obama acted the way they did because they were trying to do what each thought was best to keep the economy going at the time.  And it probably came from all of their advisors who are political appointees, not the best and the brightest.

And maybe that's the rub - fewer politically appointed positions, and more experience/knowledge based positions?  IDK.

But, I would argue that it's more incompetence (on all sides), than ideology that got us to this point - certainly not the 1st Amendment.

As for 33, he's not bringing down anybody, he's not causing chaos, he's not hurting anyone.  Blacken's on the other side, and he's not doing any harm either.  In fact, the majority of people aren't even interested in politics and most could care less.  Hell, just look at this board - it's pretty much just the same people all the time. 

Maybe you hit the nail on the head, most people don't give a shit and that is the problem.

[Straw Man]

There should be full disclosure. 

and I'm sure you're aware this is not required

[OzmO]

If that's how you want to frame the issue, then this doesn't seem to be a 1st Amendment thing.

First, forget the CTs, bipartisan shit, and all the stupid crap.  Bush and Obama acted the way they did because they were trying to do what each thought was best to keep the economy going at the time.  And it probably came from all of their advisors who are political appointees, not the best and the brightest.

And maybe that's the rub - fewer politically appointed positions, and more experience/knowledge based positions?  IDK.

But, I would argue that it's more incompetence (on all sides), than ideology that got us to this point - certainly not the 1st Amendment.

As for 33, he's not bringing down anybody, he's not causing chaos, he's not hurting anyone.  Blacken's on the other side, and he's not doing any harm either.  In fact, the majority of people aren't even interested in politics and most could care less.  Hell, just look at this board - it's pretty much just the same people all the time. 

I don't have any problem with 33333 or Blacken.  I welcome it.  But that's not my issue here.  That's what i have been trying to tell 3333.  when our own government bows down to big business then i have a problem with that because they are supposed to bow down the people.  

Thomas Jefferson warned against it:  "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance the laws of our country."

Abe Lincoln too:  "as a result of the war, corporations have become enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow. The money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its rule by preying upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is concentrated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

Something needs to be done and i don't know the answers either.  

 

[Deicide]

I don't have any problem with 33333 or Blacken.  I welcome it.  But that's not my issue here.  That's what i have been trying to tell 3333.  when our own government bows down to big business then i have a problem with that because they are supposed to bow down the people.  

Thomas Jefferson warned against it:  "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance the laws of our country."

Abe Lincoln too:  "as a result of the war, corporations have become enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow. The money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its rule by preying upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is concentrated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

Something needs to be done and i don't know the answers either.  

 

Oz, the answers are simple, numbers but we don't have the numbers so shit will just continue the way it does until something terrible happens.

[OzmO]

Oz, the answers are simple, numbers but we don't have the numbers so shit will just continue the way it does until something terrible happens.

I think people need to rise up.  But before that, people need to be educated about what really happened here.  Then if enough civil unrest occurs then our representatives will take action or get replaced.   

Of course, that's if we can get people's attention away from American Idol and Kim Kardashian's ass.   

[Straw Man]

There should be full disclosure. 

aside of lack of disclosure you're OK with foreign corporations (and even foreign goverments) spending unlimited amounts of money to influence our electoral process?

[Skip8282]

I think people need to rise up.  But before that, people need to be educated about what really happened here.  Then if enough civil unrest occurs then our representatives will take action or get replaced.   

Of course, that's if we can get people's attention away from American Idol and Kim Kardashian's ass.   

Seems we can all agree on that.  Apathy is a huge problem.

[Deicide]

I think people need to rise up.  But before that, people need to be educated about what really happened here.  Then if enough civil unrest occurs then our representatives will take action or get replaced.   

Of course, that's if we can get people's attention away from American Idol and Kim Kardashian's ass.   

I think civil unrest is inevitable but the question is, will it be organised and directed? or just mob rule and chaos and you are right, I think that is where education comes in to differentiate the two.

[Soul Crusher]

Civil unrest will be a disaster.

[Deicide]

Civil unrest will be a disaster.

It will be worse if it is just chaos...

[Soul Crusher]

We need to shrink the govt.  The more the govt grows and spends more - the more interests seek those dollars.  How friggin hard of a concept is this to grasp? 

[OzmO]

I don't know what will change this, as Skip said apathy is a huge problem.  Organized protesting on a large scale?  Civil unrest could back fire.  

Or we could just whine about Obama golfIng to much.  

[Option D]

Paulson was not a conservative.  Do a little research.     

74th United States Secretary of the Treasury
In office
July 10, 2006 – January 20, 2009
President   George W. Bush
Preceded by   John W. Snow
Succeeded by   Timothy Geithner
Personal details
Born   March 28, 1946 (age 65)
Palm Beach, Florida
Political party   Republican Party
Spouse(s)   Wendy Paulson
Children   Henry Merritt Paulson III
Amanda Clark Paulson
Alma mater   Dartmouth College (A.B.)
Harvard Business School (M.B.A.)
Profession   Investment Banker
Religion   Christian Scientist


 

[Option D]

Sure Mr. Fake Liberal...

Obama is for a strong middle class, huh?

No. Obama has been practicing republican principals from day 1. The funny shit is people who think other republicans will come in and do something different. Its fucking bullshit and they know it. They run around screaming "the world is falling now, it was good before but it went to shit in 2 years!!!!" and thats just dumb.. They are all the same. (except for paul) and the only half way sane one is being branded a looney toon.


Im fucking moving to iceland

[Deicide]

No. Obama has been practicing republican principals from day 1. The funny shit is people who think other republicans will come in and do something different. Its fucking bullshit and they know it. They run around screaming "the world is falling now, it was good before but it went to shit in 2 years!!!!" and thats just dumb.. They are all the same. (except for paul) and the only half way sane one is being branded a looney toon.


Im fucking moving to iceland

I lived in Iceland for half a year...pretty bleak.

[Fury]

I think people need to rise up.  But before that, people need to be educated about what really happened here.  Then if enough civil unrest occurs then our representatives will take action or get replaced.  

Of course, that's if we can get people's attention away from American Idol and Kim Kardashian's ass.    

Rise up? Would that include the 50% of the population that fits the definition of a benefit-leeching parasite? They can rise up and fuck off right out of this country for all I care. They're no better than banksters. Each group is bleeding this country dry in their own respective way.

I do get a kick out of how 333 is vilified here. If he wasn't posting this board would be complete trash. Just look at the other spammers on here - Blacken's threads get 0 posts because they're shitty copy/pasted youtube videos, 240 can't talk about anything without sucking Obama's dick and so on. Thankfully we have someone that actually, you know, wants to discuss politics and posts stories.

[OzmO]

Go back and start reading from the start of the thread.  

33333 isn't vilified here.  He's just so obsessed with OB that he'll post threads about OBgolfing too much which is far from the problem.  So I called him on it.

That's what this thread is about, not 333333.  So need to try and defend him again. 

The problem is our government is no longer representative of the people of this country.  At was very much demonstrated when a conservative administration authorized the bail out of our banks in a snap decision. They authorized something that was. In conflict with their Ideals showing who owns them.  

This is not about dem or repubs.  

[Soul Crusher]

Bush was. No conservative.

[OzmO]

Bush was. No conservative.

Easy to argue that now.

[Soul Crusher]

No, many of us argued that from day 1.  When I think of a real conservative I think of pat buchanan.