Author Topic: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters  (Read 104034 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #125 on: July 15, 2014, 09:26:32 AM »
Dems veer into danger zone with abortion bill
By Chris Stirewalt
Published July 15, 2014
FoxNews.com

DEMS VEER INTO DANGER ZONE WITH ABORTION BILL
Democrats today are kicking up their election-year effort to shift the discussion to social issues in a bid to drive a wedge between female voters and the GOP. Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., is leading a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing today on his bill that would override the laws banning late-term abortions and imposing regulations on abortion clinics in an increasing number of states. The bill, which already has the support of nearly two-thirds of Senate Democrats, would eradicate the restrictions in at least a dozen states where abortions have been banned after the start of the sixth month of pregnancy and rules in many more states that regulate the conditions at abortion clinics. The New York Times editorial board is enthused as are others on the left who have seen access to elective abortions restricted in the aftermath of the discovery of a house of horrors at the Philadelphia abortion clinic operated by Dr. Kermit Gosnell. But Blumenthal’s anti-anti-Gosnell bill takes Democrats into some very dangerous political territory.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/15/dems-veer-into-danger-zone-with-abortion-bill/

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #126 on: July 17, 2014, 04:38:58 PM »
Do the people who criticize Republicans for talking about abortion as a political issue have a problem with Democrats making this a major issue?

Ted Cruz: Abortion Access Law Is Part of 'Real' War on Women
Tuesday, 15 Jul 2014
By Cathy Burke

A proposed bill to protect access to abortion services is a "manifestation of a war on women," Sen. Ted Cruz charged Tuesday.

Speaking at a hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the Texas Republican questioned the Women's Health Protection Act, which would prevent states from implementing restrictions—such as doctors' admitting privileges at local hospitals, structural requirements for clinics, mandated waiting periods, and mandated ultrasounds—that make abortion services more difficult to get.

The bill is aimed at actions like those in Texas, which last summer passed a set of restrictive laws that has already closed about a third of the abortion clinics in the state, the National Journal reported.

There were 40 clinics operating in 2011; 20 are still open, the National Journal notes, and all but six are expected to close.

"This legislation is a very real manifestation of a war on women, given the health consequences that unlimited abortion access has had on many woman," Cruz said of the proposed bill.

Though Democrats say the bill would prevent states from singling out abortions and protect women’s reproductive rights, with no Republican support, the bill has little chance of passing the House and critics dismissed the measure as a political tactic aimed at the midterm election.

"This bill is a weak political ploy," said Iowa Republican Sen. Charles Grassley. "It’s unfortunate that the [Senate] majority is using this issue to appear compassionate and concerned about women's rights when, in reality, the bill disregards popular and common sense laws enacted by various states aimed at protecting women and children across the country."

Breitbart News wrote Tuesday the proposed bill is "so far-reaching in its deregulation of the abortion industry, pro-life advocates have named it the 'Gosnell Prerogative Act,'" referring to Philadelphia physician Kermit Gosnell, who was convicted of murder.

"This legislation being considered is extreme legislation," Cruz said at the hearing.

"It is legislation designed to eliminate reasonable restrictions on abortion that states have put in place. It is designed to force a radical view from Democrats in the Senate: that abortions should be universally available, without limits, and paid for by the taxpayers."

The National Journal notes states are currently allowed to set abortion regulations, as long as they do not impose an "undue burden" on women seeking the procedure. Republicans argue the new bill is broad enough that it would eliminate any state regulation at all.

"The bill is really about just one thing: It seeks to strip away from elected lawmakers the ability to provide even the most minimal protections for unborn children, at any stage of their prenatal development," Carol Tobias, president of the National Right to Life Committee, told the National Journal.

"While the proposal is so sweeping and extreme that it would be difficult to capture its full scope in any short title, calling the bill the 'Abortion Without Limits Until Birth Act' would be more in line with truth-in-advertising standards."

Republican lawmakers said the Democrat-backed bill was overreaching and interfered with state rights.

"I don’t recall Congress ever passing a law that prohibited states from enacting certain categories of laws simply because Congress says so," said Republican Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch.

"I can’t imagine why any state legislature would support this no matter their position on abortion."

At the start of Tuesday's hearing, Tennessee Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn held up a photo of her grandson's ultrasound, saying: "I could tell, three months before he was born, that he had my eyes and nose. For a grandmother, that's a really big deal," the National Journal reported.

"We all want what's best for women," she said. "We differ on what that is, and we differ how to get there."

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ted-cruz-abortion-access-bill/2014/07/15/id/582897#ixzz37lvZFayO

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #127 on: November 04, 2014, 11:25:20 AM »
Abortion Amendments on 2014 Ballot in Colorado, North Dakota, and Tennessee
Elizabeth Nolan Brown|Nov. 3, 2014

This Tuesday, voters in Colorado and North Dakota will decide whether to grant rights to "unborn human beings" while Tennessee residents consider a constitutional amendment allowing the state legislature more power to regulate abortion. Here's a quick look at the three abortion-related measures on Election 2014 ballots:

COLORADO - Amendment 67
In both 2008 and 2010, more than 70 percent of Colorado voters rejected Personhood USA's attempt to give fertilized eggs, embryos, and fetuses full rights under the Colorado constitution. This year the anti-abortion group is back at it with an updated, less-broad ballot measure. If Amendment 67 passes, it will amend the state's constitution to include "unborn human beings" under the definition of "person" with regard to Colorado criminal code and the Colorado Wrongful Death Act. The previous personhood measures would have amended the definition of person unilaterally.

Supporters of Amendment 67, also known as the Brady Amendment, have been trying to keep focus on Heather Surovik, a woman whose car was hit by a drunk driver when she was eight months pregnant. Surovik lived, but her unborn baby "Brady" didn't. The driver responsible was charged with vehicular assault and driving under the influence, but not for Brady's death.

"In honor of her son, Heather Surovik has initiated the Brady Amendment to recognize unborn babies as persons in law," sates Personhood Colorado.

Opponents say the measure is an attempt to criminalize abortion. 

NORTH DAKOTA - Measure 1
North Dakota residents will also vote this Tuesday on a constitutional amendment concerning personhood. Measure 1, also known as the "Life Begins at Conception" or "Human Life" Amendment, would change the state constitution to provide for the "inalienable right to life of every human being at any stage of development."

Some supporters of Measure 1, led by a group called North Dakota Choose Life, insist that it's not meant to address abortion per se and would merely change the state constitution to "recognize that human life is a gift". This is necessary, according to North Dakota Choose Life, because "wealthy out-of-state special interest groups" are trying to overturn restrictions on abortion that the state has already passed, such as a parental notification requirement for abortion-seeking teens.

State Sen. Margaret Sitte (R-35), however, claims "this amendment is intended to present a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade. By passage of this amendment, the people of North Dakota are asking government to recognize what science already defined."

Opponents of the measure say it's so vague it could be used in any manner of ways, including to criminalize in-vitro fertilization or taking terminally-ill patients off life support.

TENNESSEE - Amendment 1
Personhood USA/FacebookPersonhood USA/Facebook

Amendment 1, also known as the "Tennessee Legislative Powers Regarding Abortion" amendment, would add the following to the state constitution:

Nothing in this Constitution secures or protects a right to abortion or requires the funding of an abortion. The people retain the right through their elected state representatives and state senators to enact, amend, or repeal statutes regarding abortion, including, but not limited to, circumstances of pregnancy resulting from rape or incest or when necessary to save the life of the mother.

The amendment would have no immediate effect, but supporters say it would allow the legislature to more intensely regulate abortion in the future. Specifically, they believe it would neutralize a 2000 Tennessee Supreme Court ruling which struck down several laws restricting abortion access—including a 48-hour waiting period for women seeking abortions and a requirement that second-trimester abortions be performed in hospitals—as unconstitutional.

"For those thinking that a state constitutional amendment may be overkill, in fact its need comes from the state court itself," said Dan McConchie, vice president of government affairs at Americans United for Life.

Opponents of Amendment 1 point out that the goal of its backers is to make all abortion illegal. "Their pitch is that this would make the constitution neutral on abortion," said former Tennessee Sen. Roy Herron. "How would they like the Constitution neutral on the Second Amendment so legislators could outlaw the right to bear arms? How about making the First Amendment neutral?"

Amendment 1 was placed on the ballot by the state legislature, under the guidance of State Sen. Mae Beavers (R-17) and U.S. Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.), who was a state senator at the time. As a legislatively-referred constitutional amendment, it must earn a majority vote from those voting on the amendment and those voting for Tennessee governor. For this reason, Amendment 1 supporters have been urging residents not to cast a vote in the gubernatorial race.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/03/abortion-ballot-measures-2014-elections

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2014, 12:25:22 PM »
Colorado And North Dakota Voters Reject Fetal Personhood Measures
Posted: 11/04/2014 10:14 pm EST Updated: 11/05/2014 8:59 am EST

Voters in Colorado rejected an anti-abortion ballot measure on Tuesday that would have granted personhood rights to developing fetuses from the moment of fertilization.

The ballot measure, known as Amendment 67, would have amended the state's criminal code to include fetuses in the category of "human" and "child." Supporters of the measure said it would have more harshly prosecuted someone who caused a pregnant woman to lose her baby in a situation like a drunk driving accident.

Opponents warned that it also would have criminalized women who have abortions, without exception for rape or incest.

Colorado voters rejected the amendment by a vote of 63 percent to 37 percent -- the third time they have voted down a personhood measure in the past few years.

“For the third time, Colorado voters have said loud and clear: We don’t want extremists interfering in our personal and private decisions, and we won’t stand for attempts to ban abortion," said Jennifer Dalven, director of the American Civil Liberties Union Reproductive Freedom Project. "This isn’t surprising: Voters in Mississippi, South Dakota, Florida and other states defeated attempts to curb access to safe, legal abortion. Time and time again, Americans have shown that they support a woman’s right to make the best decision for herself and her family.”

Colorado voters on Tuesday did, however, elect to the Senate Republican Cory Gardner, who co-sponsored fetal personhood legislation in the House of Representatives.

North Dakota voters on Tuesday also rejected a personhood ballot measure by a margin of 64 percent to 36 percent. The measure would have amended the state constitution to say, "The inalienable right to life of every human being at any stage of development must be recognized and protected.'"

Supporters of the measure said it was not, in fact, a personhood bill and that it was only a statement of anti-abortion values. Opponents argued that the measure was so vaguely written, it could have been interpreted to ban all abortions without exception and even complicate the legality of some forms of birth control and in vitro fertilization.

Reproductive rights groups applauded the amendment's defeat.

"Today, North Dakotans saw through right-wing extremists' attempts to insert a highly controversial measure into the state's constitution that would have robbed North Dakota women of their inalienable rights to their own body and their own lives," said NARAL president Ilyse Hogue. "We stand with the women of North Dakota who have the right to make personal health care decisions without interference from politicians."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/04/personhood-colorado_n_6104120.html

The True Adonis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2014, 03:51:56 PM »
Kind of shocking that this thread didn't explode into 30 pages.  

My personal belief is that life does start at conception.  With that said I sure would not want to tell rape and incest victims they had to have the baby that resulted from their rape or force a mother to give birth to a baby that doesn't have any chance at life.  Also not cool if it results in the state deciding who dies if it comes down to the mother or the baby.
You are a moron.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2014, 03:56:56 PM »

The True Adonis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #131 on: November 05, 2014, 03:58:29 PM »
No he isn't.   ::)
Yes he is.  You probably are as well if you think fetuses deserve rights.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #132 on: November 05, 2014, 04:03:46 PM »
Yes he is.  You probably are as well if you think fetuses deserve rights.

He said he believes life begins at conception.  I agree with him.  But what I was responding to was your broad contention that he is moron.  He's not.  People are not dumb simply because they have a different viewpoint.  Pretty simplistic thought process if that's what you believe.   

Regarding this particular subject, I pretty much know you believe an unborn child isn't actually a person.  The majority of the country disagrees with you. 

The True Adonis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #133 on: November 05, 2014, 04:08:20 PM »
He said he believes life begins at conception.  I agree with him.  But what I was responding to was your broad contention that he is moron.  He's not.  People are not dumb simply because they have a different viewpoint.  Pretty simplistic thought process if that's what you believe.   

Regarding this particular subject, I pretty much know you believe an unborn child isn't actually a person.  The majority of the country disagrees with you. 
Not true.


Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #134 on: November 05, 2014, 04:19:17 PM »
Not true.



What we have here is a failure to communicate.  I'm not talking about abortion.  I'm talking about whether people believe an unborn child is actually a baby. 

The True Adonis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #135 on: November 05, 2014, 04:29:29 PM »
What we have here is a failure to communicate.  I'm not talking about abortion.  I'm talking about whether people believe an unborn child is actually a baby.  
How can anything that is unborn be anything other than unborn?

What we have is failure of intelligence, yours included.

I guess acorns should now be classified as trees.  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #136 on: November 05, 2014, 04:33:21 PM »
How can anything that is unborn be anything other than unborn?

What we have is failure of intelligence, yours included.

I guess acorns should now be classified as trees.  ::)

Yes, acorns should be trees.  Seeds should be fruit trees.  Blah blah blah.   ::)  And you called Hugo a moron?  lol

You should ask the next pregnant mother you encounter how she would describe her unborn child. 

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #137 on: November 05, 2014, 04:35:25 PM »
Yes, acorns should be trees.  Seeds should be fruit trees.  Blah blah blah.   ::)  And you called Hugo a moron?  lol

You should ask the next pregnant mother you encounter how she would describe her unborn child. 
I heard one describe it as a parasite right before she got her abortion.  Does that help?


So you think acorns are trees?  You really are teh stupid, aren`t you?

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #138 on: November 05, 2014, 04:39:18 PM »
I heard one describe it as a parasite right before she got her abortion.  Does that help?


So you think acorns are trees?  You really are teh stupid, aren`t you?

No, that doesn't help.  Talk to someone who doesn't plan on killing her unborn child how she would describe her unborn child.  

No I don't believe acorns are trees.  I was mocking you.  

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #139 on: November 05, 2014, 04:44:00 PM »
No, that doesn't help.  Talk to someone who doesn't plan on killing her unborn child how she would describe her unborn child.  

No I don't believe acorns are trees.  I was mocking you.  

If an Acorn isn`t a tree, how is a fetus a human being?  ???

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #140 on: November 05, 2014, 04:55:24 PM »
If an Acorn isn`t a tree, how is a fetus a human being?  ???

lol.  Oh you got me.   ::)

An acorn is a plant.  An unborn child is not.  What is it with some people and these asinine comparisons?  lol

At what point does an unborn child become a human being?

The True Adonis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #141 on: November 05, 2014, 05:00:58 PM »
lol.  Oh you got me.   ::)

An acorn is a plant.  An unborn child is not.  What is it with some people and these asinine comparisons?  lol

At what point does an unborn child become a human being?
When the umbilical cord is clipped, separating it from the mother.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #142 on: November 05, 2014, 05:03:06 PM »
When the umbilical cord is clipped, separating it from the mother.

So even after delivery, but before the cord is cut, you don't consider the baby to be a human being? 

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #143 on: November 05, 2014, 05:19:57 PM »
So even after delivery, but before the cord is cut, you don't consider the baby to be a human being? 
Minimum after it leaves the vagina, but the umbilical cord makes the definition a bit more concrete.


Before that, its a fetus, not a human being.

Also, if you don`t like abortions, don`t have one.  But DO NOT tell someone else they are not allowed.  Its none of your business unless you want to pick up the tab for all the unwanted babies, rape babies, crack babies, pregnancy mistakes and retards.  Perhaps you should be taxed more in order to support them then.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #144 on: November 05, 2014, 05:24:40 PM »
Minimum after it leaves the vagina, but the umbilical cord makes the definition a bit more concrete.


Before that, its a fetus, not a human being.

Also, if you don`t like abortions, don`t have one.  But DO NOT tell someone else they are not allowed.  Its none of your business unless you want to pick up the tab for all the unwanted babies, rape babies, crack babies, pregnancy mistakes and retards.  Perhaps you should be taxed more in order to support them then.

Oh stop with the canned talking points.  I'm not even talking about abortion.  ::)

You're waffling.  Is a baby that comes out of the womb, but is still attached to the cord, a human being or not?  

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #145 on: November 05, 2014, 05:29:05 PM »
Oh stop with the canned talking points.  I'm not even talking about abortion.  ::)

You're waffling.  Is a baby that comes out of the womb, but is still attached to the cord, a human being or not?  
Its a newly birthed fetus that has yet to be separated from the mother and if we assume that the umbilical cord is the determining factor than, no, its not official yet.

If we use the after it leaves the mothers womb or vagina, then it may be.  Either definition is fine by me, but I do prefer the umbilical version.

Anything prior to those two, the fetus is a parasite.

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #146 on: November 05, 2014, 05:45:03 PM »
Anyone who uses abortion as a form of birth control is a piece of shit. That said, make your own choices and deal with the reprocussions. To each their own.

The True Adonis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #147 on: November 05, 2014, 05:51:22 PM »
Anyone who uses abortion as a form of birth control is a piece of shit. That said, make your own choices and deal with the reprocussions. To each their own.
Why?

You are against the morning after pill which is essentially an abortion according to morons like Dos Equis and Hugo?



Dos Equis

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #148 on: November 05, 2014, 06:51:21 PM »
Its a newly birthed fetus that has yet to be separated from the mother and if we assume that the umbilical cord is the determining factor than, no, its not official yet.

If we use the after it leaves the mothers womb or vagina, then it may be.  Either definition is fine by me, but I do prefer the umbilical version.

Anything prior to those two, the fetus is a parasite.

You're still waffling.  What do you mean a baby "may be" a human after it leaves the womb?  Why can't you be more definitive?

Also, you should talk to pregnant mothers, especially in their third trimester.  None of them refer to their baby as a fetus. 

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Re: Supporters of 'Personhood Amendment' Make Case to Mississippi Voters
« Reply #149 on: November 05, 2014, 07:40:50 PM »
You're still waffling.  What do you mean a baby "may be" a human after it leaves the womb?  Why can't you be more definitive?

Also, you should talk to pregnant mothers, especially in their third trimester.  None of them refer to their baby as a fetus. 
I thought it was pretty obvious what I stated.

I have talked to women who have had children and gave birth and wished they either never had them.  Men as well.