Author Topic: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it  (Read 3926 times)

tonymctones

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Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« on: October 14, 2011, 04:28:23 PM »
For the guys who dont like it.

What in the plan dont you like and why?

Ive seen a couple threads about stupid shit having nothing to do with the merits of the bill itself...

SOOOOOOOO, this is your chance to debate the actual merits of the bill.

Please let me know

blacken700

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 04:37:17 PM »


We’ve got enough income and wealth inequality coming from the pretax distribution—we don’t need to exacerbate it through the tax code.

By Jared Bernstein,


I debated Herman Cain’s economic advisor, Rich Lowrie, last night on the Larry Kudlow Show. A key point here is that the plan, which Bruce Barlett calls a “distributional nightmare,” radically shifts the tax burden from high-income households to everyone else. I focused on the median household, and Lowrie either doesn’t understand the implications of the plan or he’s deliberately misrepresenting it.


 

Before joining the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities as a senior fellow, Jared was chief economist to Vice President Joseph Biden and executive director of the White House Task Force on the Middle Class. He is a contributor to MSNBC and CNBC and has written numerous books, including 'Crunch: Why Do I Feel So Squeezed?'

Public Finance •Government and Politics •Taxes •Political Policy •Politics •Economic Policy •Domestic Policy •.For a $50K household, married couple, two kids, all income from earnings and standard deductions, the current tax burden is $8.3K. Under 9-9-9, that would grow to $13.5K, an increase of over $5,000 (hat tip: CCH, BS). The WaPo fact checker came to a similar conclusion. E Klein too.

(I expect that any minute now the Tax Policy Center will release a slew of data supporting these points with their much more detailed tax model.)

But Lowrie wouldn’t accept that conclusion. In fact, he asserted that their federal tax would be lower because they’d move from a 15% payroll tax to a 9% income tax. This, as I said on air, is “patently wrong.”

First of all, assuming they plan to exist, they’ll need to consume stuff, and thus they’ll also face the 9% sales tax. That already makes their tax rate 18%, higher than the 15%.

RELATED: Election 101: Herman Cain

But as Michael Linden points out, and this is widely agreed upon by tax economists, the incidence of the 9% tax on business income (which denies businesses a deduction for wages paid) also hits them, which is why former Joint Tax Committee chief of staff Ed Kleinbard described the tax as a 27% payroll tax for families whose incomes derive from earnings (note that Lowrie is perfectly comfortable with the standard assumption assigning the incidence of the employers side of the payroll tax to the family—this one re the business tax is equally standard).

For a family with $500K, same assumptions as above, their tax bill would fall by $44K.

But where this plan really gets regressive is when you get up into the families who derive their income from non-labor sources. While the details of the plan are fuzzy when it comes to capital gains and dividends, it seems clear that those earning thousands or even millions of dollars in these types of non-labor income would enjoy a massive tax cut. And that would further widen the disparity between the highly preferential treatment of capital gains and dividends on the one hand, and the taxation of “ordinary” wage and salary income on the other.

We’ve got enough income and wealth inequality coming from the pretax distribution—we don’t need to exacerbate it through the tax code.

Middle class families that depend on earnings will pay more taxes under the Cain tax plan. High income families will pay a lot less. His advisors who say otherwise are misleading the electorate and that must not stand.

tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 04:39:57 PM »
LOL in your own words, not cut and fucking paste you moron...

blacken700

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 04:46:25 PM »
who the fu@k you calling moron,retard ;D  what does it matter if i read this article and write about it in my own words or just post the article, 999 is a falure

tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 04:54:51 PM »
But as Michael Linden points out, and this is widely agreed upon by tax economists, the incidence of the 9% tax on business income (which denies businesses a deduction for wages paid) also hits them, which is why former Joint Tax Committee chief of staff Ed Kleinbard described the tax as a 27% payroll tax for families whose incomes derive from earnings (note that Lowrie is perfectly comfortable with the standard assumption assigning the incidence of the employers side of the payroll tax to the family—this one re the business tax is equally standard).

For a family with $500K, same assumptions as above, their tax bill would fall by $44K.
this makes a stupid assumption, what workers income generally depends on earnings? it isnt the mid level employee its the high level employee. So the higher ups are going to feel it more not the middle.

I think if it excludes essentials like food and water then its fine to add a tax to consumers.

How about doing away with the sales tax or income tax and having a VAT?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 04:56:10 PM »
For the guys who dont like it.

What in the plan dont you like and why?

Ive seen a couple threads about stupid shit having nothing to do with the merits of the bill itself...

SOOOOOOOO, this is your chance to debate the actual merits of the bill.

Please let me know
it's not a bill lol... 

I tried my best to approach what has been released on the plan in a fair way.  Glad to see you describe the debate that went on in that thread as, "stupid shit having nothing to do with" its merits ::)  yea, thanks buddy... fuck you too lol...

tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 04:56:46 PM »
who the fu@k you calling moron,retard ;D  what does it matter if i read this article and write about it in my own words or just post the article, 999 is a falure
LOL b/c you dont understand what the guy is saying, refer to my post above...


tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »
it's not a bill lol... 

I tried my best to approach what has been released on the plan in a fair way.  Glad to see you describe the debate that went on in that thread as, "stupid shit having nothing to do with" its merits ::)  yea, thanks buddy... fuck you too lol...
LOL sorry I havent see the cartoon lately...

The original post referred to threads not posts within them. You did and you were the only one, still there are plenty of morons like black ass who will cut and paste idiotic shit about wells fargo and sim city to somehow try to discredit it.

or even worse post shit they havent read or dont understand as in this thread.

blacken700

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 05:06:11 PM »
so do you agree with the last sentence

Middle class families that depend on earnings will pay more taxes under the Cain tax plan. High income families will pay a lot less. His advisors who say otherwise are misleading the electorate and that must not stand.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 05:10:13 PM »
LOL sorry I havent see the cartoon lately...

The original post referred to threads not posts within them. You did and you were the only one, still there are plenty of morons like black ass who will cut and paste idiotic shit about wells fargo and sim city to somehow try to discredit it.

or even worse post shit they havent read or dont understand as in this thread.
LOL, I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out what you meant by cartoon.  Cartoon... huh?... Then I had a flashback from my youth lol.

  


tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 05:12:12 PM »
LOL, I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out what you meant by cartoon.  Cartoon... huh?... Then I had a flashback from my youth lol.

   


LOL thats ok i couldnt remember the name, the only thing i could think of was fragle rock lol

tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 05:14:04 PM »
so do you agree with the last sentence

Middle class families that depend on earnings will pay more taxes under the Cain tax plan. High income families will pay a lot less. His advisors who say otherwise are misleading the electorate and that must not stand.
No, are you assuming that a middle class family consumes more than a high income family?

this will hit those who consume more, more...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 05:16:26 PM »
so do you agree with the last sentence

Middle class families that depend on earnings will pay more taxes under the Cain tax plan. High income families will pay a lot less. His advisors who say otherwise are misleading the electorate and that must not stand.

actually none of this is for sure.  It's basically an outline of the plan that's been released.  You would have to wait to see his detailed plan to say this for sure.  There could be all kinds of exemptions. 

But, with such a radical change, he's fucked if he does not release a more detailed plan.  If he thinks a basic one page summary on this will get him in the whitehouse, he's mistaken.

Fury

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 05:17:58 PM »
LOL in your own words, not cut and fucking paste you moron...

If the NY Times wrote an article saying the sky was purple this moron would be on here arguing in defense of it. The sheeple is incapable of thinking for himself. He’s literally the perfect Downgrade drone. A complete retard and a benefit-leeching parasite, to boot.

Guess there really was a reason for his mom only buying him Velcro sneakers.


The attack on this plan by the left shows that they're really not interested in generating revenue. They're only interested in keeping their parasitic welfare class as just that...a parasitic welfare class.

blacken700

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 05:23:34 PM »
If the NY Times wrote an article saying the sky was purple this moron would be on here arguing in defense of it. The sheeple is incapable of thinking for himself. He’s literally the perfect Downgrade drone. A complete retard and a benefit-leeching parasite, to boot.

Guess there really was a reason for his mom only buying him Velcro sneakers.


The attack on this plan by the left shows that they're really not interested in generating revenue. They're only interested in keeping their parasitic welfare class as just that...a parasitic welfare class.


why would you even worry about it you live at home with your mommy,when you get your own place now let us know

Fury

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 05:26:13 PM »
why would you even worry about it you live at home with your mommy,when you get your own place now let us know

It's cute how the jobless parasite projects onto others.

Ho-hum, another 50 post day during working hours from you. Keep up the good work, stud! You make the rest of us Americans proud!


tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 05:27:20 PM »
No, are you assuming that a middle class family consumes more than a high income family?

this will hit those who consume more, more...

Fury

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 05:27:34 PM »
I wonder if Dems thought about how much a VAT or Cap-and-trade would affect the lower and middle classes the last time they were pushing for them. Oh, wait, they didn't give a fuck then.  ::)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 05:29:37 PM »
There are legit concerns about Cain's plan and a need to see more details.  I hope the debate doesn't just fall into commie libs wanting their handout--end of story lol.

blacken700

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 05:32:00 PM »
It's cute how the jobless parasite projects onto others.

Ho-hum, another 50 post day during working hours from you. Keep up the good work, stud! You make the rest of us Americans proud!



you live mommy,come on tell everyone here that you live with your mother,and don't lie

Fury

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2011, 05:32:39 PM »
There are legit concerns about Cain's plan and a need to see more details.  I hope the debate doesn't just fall into commie libs wanting their handout--end of story lol.

This rampant spending will go on unabated until everyone asshole has some skin in the game.

you live mommy,come on tell everyone here that you live with your mother,and don't lie

Ho-hum, still projecting, still logging 50 posts every day of the working week and conversing with yourself on gimmicks.

Now that I think about it, your gimmickry indicates that you might suffer from schizophrenia or some type of mental sickness. Let me guess, disability pay? Fucking leech.

blacken700

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2011, 05:37:55 PM »
This rampant spending will go on unabated until everyone asshole has some skin in the game.

Ho-hum, still projecting, still logging 50 posts every day of the working week and conversing with yourself on gimmicks.

Now that I think about it, your gimmickry indicates that you might suffer from schizophrenia or some type of mental sickness. Let me guess, disability pay? Fucking leech.

hahahaha ashamed to admit you live with mommy,oh well what's a mama's boy to do  :D

tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 05:39:34 PM »
No, are you assuming that a middle class family consumes more than a high income family?

this will hit those who consume more, more...

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 08:52:51 PM »
The guy worked for the Federal Reserve and missed the biggest economic downturn in recent history because he didn't have all the "technical analyses". He gets his information from the "media" like "everyone else", yet, Ron Paul called the housing bubble and its catastrophic effects in 2003! What did Ron know that Cain didn't? Now I'm supposed to believe he has an answer with his 9-9-9 nonsense that some Joe blow character created for him? OK..

tonymctones

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Re: Cains 9-9-9 Bill, for those opposed to it
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 09:02:18 PM »
The guy worked for the Federal Reserve and missed the biggest economic downturn in recent history because he didn't have all the "technical analyses". He gets his information from the "media" like "everyone else", yet, Ron Paul called the housing bubble and its catastrophic effects in 2003! What did Ron know that Cain didn't? Now I'm supposed to believe he has an answer with his 9-9-9 nonsense that some Joe blow character created for him? OK..
so, you have nothing to say about the actual merits of this proposal?

come on bro, I understand your frustration but please dont bull shit. If this proposal is shit then tell us why, you attacking cain doesnt do anything to discredit the plan.