Author Topic: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag  (Read 31461 times)

Dos Equis

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Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« on: November 04, 2011, 10:57:45 AM »
I swear it feels like a read a story like this almost every week.

Navy Vet Gets Eviction Notice After Hanging American Flag on Navy Day
Published November 02, 2011
FoxNews.com


Edward Zivica faces an eviction after hanging an American flag on Navy Day.

A Navy veteran says he’s being evicted from his Oregon apartment complex for displaying an American flag on Navy Day.

The apartment management company delivered the eviction notice to Edward Zivica after he hung the Old Glory in a common area at the Springfield, Ore., complex, KVAL.com reported. If he doesn't agree to refrain from any more such flag displays, the complex told him, it's anchors aweigh by midnight Nov. 29.

Zivica said he's been displaying the flag  for at least a year on holidays such as Veteran's Day and Memorial Day.

Management insists that the flag eviction is not due to a lack of patriotism, and the complex even installed a lit flag pole outside the building after it was requested by some tenants, the report said.

But Zivica criticized the pole, saying it lacks a pulley system, hence you can’t lower the flag to half mast, the report said.
“I’m not doing something so terrible,” he told the station.

Terry McDonald, the CEO of St. Vincent de Paul, the management company, told the station that the notice was for “hanging something outside the building without permission.”

“If you're going to live in a situation where there's lots of other tenants, you need to follow the rules that are set up,” McDonald said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/02/navy-vet-gets-eviction-notice-after-hanging-american-flag-on-navy-day/?test=latestnews

kcballer

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 12:56:45 PM »
Rules are rules.  This idiot shouldn't have put anything in the common area. 
Abandon every hope...

Freeborn126

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 01:08:17 PM »
Dude should by his own house or property, then he can put all the flags he wants up.  Since the management company owns that complex they have every right to enforce their own terms and conditions.  Letting patriotism infringe on private property rights is unpatriotic. 
Live free or die

Dos Equis

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 09:07:35 AM »
Judge: School Can Ban American Flag Shirts
Nov 10, 2011

A federal court has ruled that a California public school had the authority to prevent students from wearing clothing emblazoned with pro-American messages on the Mexican holiday Cinco de Mayo.


U. S. District Court Judge James Ware was ruling in a case involving students at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, CA, who were banned from wearing American flag t-shirts on the Mexican holiday in 2010.

The judge determined that the Morgan Hill Unified School District did not violate the First Amendment and said that concerns by school officials over possible violence justified censoring the pro-American message.

“The school officials reasonable forecast that Plaintiff’s clothing could cause a substantial disruption with school activities, and therefore did not violate the standard set forth – by requiring that Plaintiff’s change,” the judge wrote.

“This is nothing more than political correctness,” said John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute. His organization, along with Thomas More Law Center, represented the students and their families in the lawsuit.

“If these kinds of decisions are upheld, they will destroy our First Amendment rights,” Whitehead told Fox News.

The lawsuit stems from an incident that generated national attention last May when three students wore patriotic t-shirts, shorts and shoes to class.

Whitehead said the boys were approached by assistant principal Miguel Rodriguez who instructed them to  either remove their pro-American shirts or turning them inside out.

“The students were told their shirts would offend Hispanics,” Whitehead said.

The students refused to change because they said it would be disrespectful to the flag. At that point, Whitehead said they were ordered to the office where Rodriguez allegedly lectured the trio on Cinco de Mayo and told them that their clothing would offend Hispanic students on “their” day.

Whitehead said the school’s behavior was incredibly offensive.

“It’s offensive to most Americans,” Whitehead told Fox News. “The symbol of America is the American flag.”

The school district maintained their only concern was student safety – and that’s why they asked the boys to change their shirts.

Wes Smith, the superintendent of the school district, told Fox News that he is “very satisfied with the decision.”

“We were encouraged to hear that the federal court found student safety paramount,” Smith said. “The other finding – that we did not infringe or deny students their First Amendment rights was also encouraging.”

Rutherford said they plan on appealing the judge’s decision, arguing that it sends a terrible message to students.

“It teaches students that at any moment, any time, a state official can shut down free speech and that’s what we’re going to fight against,” he said.

Smith noted that the 2011 Cinco de Mayo celebration went off without a hitch.

http://radio.foxnews.com//toddstarnes/top-stories/judge-school-can-ban-american-flag-shirts.html

OzmO

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 09:44:32 AM »
Dude should by his own house or property, then he can put all the flags he wants up.  Since the management company owns that complex they have every right to enforce their own terms and conditions.  Letting patriotism infringe on private property rights is unpatriotic. 

I agree.

Dos Equis

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 09:15:51 AM »
Retired Police Officer Reportedly Told to Remove Flag Honoring Victims of 9/11
Published November 20, 2011
FoxNews.com

A retired New York City police officer living in Florida has been ordered to take down his flag commemorating September 11 by his homeowners’ association, WPLG reports.

Richard Wentz, who helped victims out of the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, has been told he has just days to take down his flag or face possible legal action.

"That flag means the world to me. Other than my children, that flag means the world to me," said Wentz.

A letter from the Fairways at Heron Bay association said the flag detracts from the aesthetic harmony of the surrounding properties. Wentz said he was confronted by Patricia Favata, president of the property’s board of directors, according to the station.

No one was at Favata's home when WPLG Local 10 tried to talk to her.

Wentz said he ran into Tower 1 and started pulling out people before the building collapsed. He said he lost 43 friends and colleagues that day.

Wentz says he now has cancer, from breathing in all the particles during the cleanup of Ground Zero.

"I will not take that flag down. That flag will remain up. I don't care how many fines they want to give me, how many notices they want to give me, I refuse to take that down," Wentz told the station.

Click for more on the story from Local10.com

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/20/retired-police-officer-reportedly-told-to-remove-flag-honoring-victims-11/?test=latestnews

blacken700

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 05:39:25 PM »
war on american flags,war on christmas,give it a break the rules are the rules

thelamefalsehood

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2011, 09:37:03 AM »
war on american flags,war on christmas,give it a break the rules are the rules

Rules are rules and should be followed---as long as it is in the liberal playbook ::)

blacken700

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 09:52:33 AM »
i didn't' know there were liberal or conservative apartments  :D

thelamefalsehood

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 02:22:05 PM »
i didn't' know there were liberal or conservative apartments  :D

 ::)
You know exactly what I meant. Liberals and conservatives both cry about the rules only when it fits their agenda. Those apartments were in the Pacific Northwest, California and NYC. So you could say they are liberal apartments. Nobody would pull a douche move like that in most common sense states.

blacken700

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 02:30:22 PM »
::)
You know exactly what I meant. Liberals and conservatives both cry about the rules only when it fits their agenda. Those apartments were in the Pacific Northwest, California and NYC. So you could say they are liberal apartments. Nobody would pull a douche move like that in most common sense states.

 

what are the common sense states,can you name them

headhuntersix

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2011, 02:45:21 PM »
Anything between the coasts where we cling to our guns and god etc....flyover states...
L

thelamefalsehood

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2011, 03:22:50 PM »
 

what are the common sense states,can you name them

They are the states where you dont turn on the radio and hear about the introduction of rediculous legislation. I just left the liberal capital of the world, California, and this was a daily occurence. But, just for you Mr. female hygeine product. The Pacific northwest to include California and most of the northeast. I'm not typing out states for you "homie" ::)

blacken700

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2011, 03:43:01 PM »
thanks theflamerfalsehood

thelamefalsehood

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2011, 04:24:16 PM »
My 1000th post wasted on a leftwing liberal bag of female hygeine product. This pic below reminds me of you and your kind  ;)

blacken700

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2011, 04:25:53 PM »
My 1000th post wasted on a leftwing liberal bag of female hygeine product. This pic below reminds me of you and your kind  ;)


 :D :D now that's funny

haider

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2011, 05:03:45 PM »
My 1000th post wasted on a leftwing liberal bag of female hygeine product. This pic below reminds me of you and your kind  ;)
damn took you an awful long time to get to 1000. pick up the speed man  :D
follow the arrows

thelamefalsehood

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2011, 05:17:52 PM »
damn took you an awful long time to get to 1000. pick up the speed man  :D

Quality over quantity my friend,at least that's what I tell my wife :D

Dos Equis

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 05:26:09 PM »
American Flag Put Up to Honor Soldier, Then Thrown in Dump Truck by Maryland State Workers

Controversy is brewing in Woodbine, Md. today after an American flag was disposed of by being thrown in a dump truck.

Rhonda Winkler chose to honor her nephew who was being deployed to Afghanistan three years ago by placing an American flag in the center of a prominent traffic circle in Woodbine. For the past three years, the Winklers have replaced the flag every few months.

Earlier in December, Winkler received a call saying the flag had been taken down and thrown in a dump truck by state workers.

“[They] told us it was against the law to erect a flag on the traffic circle. They told my husband that whoever put up the flag would be arrested for trespassing,” Winkler said. “We figured, ‘it’s the American flag and we live in the United States of America; how can anyone have a problem with that?’”

Watch the video below for more.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/12/30/american-flag-put-up-to-honor-soldier-then-thrown-in-dump-truck-by-maryland-state-workers/#more-80994

avxo

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 06:12:45 PM »
American Flag Put Up to Honor Soldier, Then Thrown in Dump Truck by Maryland State Workers

Controversy is brewing in Woodbine, Md. today after an American flag was disposed of by being thrown in a dump truck.

Rhonda Winkler chose to honor her nephew who was being deployed to Afghanistan three years ago by placing an American flag in the center of a prominent traffic circle in Woodbine. For the past three years, the Winklers have replaced the flag every few months.

Earlier in December, Winkler received a call saying the flag had been taken down and thrown in a dump truck by state workers.

“[They] told us it was against the law to erect a flag on the traffic circle. They told my husband that whoever put up the flag would be arrested for trespassing,” Winkler said. “We figured, ‘it’s the American flag and we live in the United States of America; how can anyone have a problem with that?’”

Watch the video below for more.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/12/30/american-flag-put-up-to-honor-soldier-then-thrown-in-dump-truck-by-maryland-state-workers/#more-80994

Not agreeing with the (alleged) treatment of the flag but I am confused. Her husband and her erect a structure  -- apparently without any permission -- in land they do not own, and she's confused that it is taken down? That it's a flagpole is irrelevant.

Again - not happy with the mistreatment of the flag, if it occurred; but I think having it taken down is entirely appropriate.

If they had gone and asked for permission and followed the right procedures, the chances are overwhelming that the flagpole would have been approved. So I don't understand why they didn't do that. And she's confused that an unauthorized structure erected on State land without the consent of the State was taken down... What? ???

Dos Equis

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2012, 10:29:54 AM »
Not sure what I think about this.

Federal Judge Okays Flag Desecration
Mar 23, 2012
By Todd Starnes

A federal judge has declared Missouri’s flag desecration law is unconstitutional and cannot be enforced.

U.S. District Judge Carol E. Jackson issued a permanent injunction in the case of Frank Snider, who was arrested in 2009 for cutting up an American flag and throwing it into the street.

“The sense of patriotism that runs through Missouri is strong,” Attorney General Chris Koster told Fox News in a written statement. “Although we understood that defending the statute was an uphill battle, most Missourians have a strong reaction against flag desecration.  Our defense of the statute was our attempt to give voice to that patriotic sentiment.”

The Attorney General’s office told Fox News they are still reviewing the judge’s ruling and haven’t made any decisions on next steps. Missouri is among at least 20 states with laws banning flag desecration.
Missouri’s flag desecration law states: “Any person who purposefully and publicly mutilates, defaces, defiles, tramples upon or otherwise desecrates the national flag of the United States or the state flag of the state of Missouri is guilty of the crime of flag desecration.”

The law considered flag desecration a misdemeanor penalty.

However, the judge ruled that the entire statute was invalid because it prohibits a substantial amount of protected speech.

The American Civil Liberties Union hailed the judge’s ruling, calling it “satisfying” but “not surprising.”

“It’s a long delayed victory in Missouri,” said ACLU attorney Tony Rothert in an interview with the Associated Press. “The Supreme Court has been pretty clear that these statues are unconstitutional.”

The Missouri chapter of the American Legion denounced the ruling and said it was a sad day for the state.

“Anger,” is how Kenneth Goth, the American Legion Dept. Commander described his reaction to Fox News. “There’s a lot of people who fight for our country and that flag. You never see a veteran do that because they know what the honor is.”

Goth said he is passionate about the American flag. To him, the flag “means my country.” He said people who desecrate the American flag do so to “show their stupidity.”

“People can take their freedom of speech a little too far and doing that to the American flag does,” he said.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/federal-judge-okays-flag-desecration.html

Dos Equis

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2012, 03:33:47 PM »
Order to remove American flags from fire engines triggers protest

Protesters lined the road near the Seminole Fire Department on Sunday after they were recently told firefighters had to remove small American flags that were flying from fire engine windows. (PHOTO/Cheryl Glassford, BN9)
By Cheryl Glassford, Reporter

Last Updated: Monday, July 16, 2012 @ 05:45AM Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on googleShare on emailMore Sharing Services43iPollWhat do you think of the Seminole Fire Dept.'s decision to remove American flags from fire engines?

Horns were honking for red, white and blue Sunday, as protesters lined the road near the Seminole Fire Department after being told firefighters had to remove small American flags that were flying from fire engine windows.

The order to remove the flags came from Seminole Fire Chief George Bessler after the department received a complaint from a community member about flag placement.

City officials referred to U.S. Code Title 36 Chapter 10, section 175 that states hanging flags out windows is a violation. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the code states the staff has to be fixed to the chassis or the right fender.

Bessler said it's important they properly display the flags, so they don't unintentionally offend someone using the nation's flag.

Word spread about the decision. Those who came out in protest were offended by not allowing the flags to fly how they were and want the flags back on the trucks. "I want to see these guys be allowed to fly their flags," protest organizer Dave Dabney said.

"It's pretty much being patriotic towards the country, military and the fire service in general," former firefighter Howard Hirschfield said.

According to Hirschfield, some firefighters dispute whether the U.S. code applies to their engines. "I think a lot of firefighters across the country right now fly their flag on their apparatus, especially after 9/11," he said.
 
A flag already flies in front of the Seminole fire station and is worn proudly on their uniforms.

To the firefighters it’s about pride and respect, but city officials said it’s that respect they’re trying to protect with their decision.

Bessler said if the firefighters submit a formal proposal for flying flags on their trucks, the department and city is willing to try to reach a compromise if the flags are flown in accordance with U.S. code.


"If at any time the City of Seminole receives a request to mount the US flag on City apparatus in compliance with the US Code, it will be considered," the fire department said in a statement released Sunday evening.


http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/7/15/protest_held_after_a.html

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2012, 04:21:43 PM »
The American Flag needs to be displayed correctly.  This isn't something freaking new.  The only thing new is how many people are oblivious to flag code and etiquette.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2012, 04:39:25 PM »
The American Flag needs to be displayed correctly.  This isn't something freaking new.  The only thing new is how many people are oblivious to flag code and etiquette.

THIS

Dos Equis

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Re: Dumb Decisions Regarding the American Flag
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2013, 12:57:07 PM »
Appeals court to consider Calif. school's Cinco de Mayo American flag ban
Published October 17, 2013
Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO –  Racial tensions and gang problems were plaguing a Northern California high school when three students arrived for classes in 2010 wearing American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo.

Unpleasant verbal exchanges and altercations marked the previous year's Cinco de Mayo celebrations at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, 20 miles south of San Jose. So when students told administrators that trouble was a possibility because of the American flag attire, the students were ordered to turn their shirts inside out or go home.

They went home, and the incident sparked a national debate, prompting satellite news trucks to camp outside the school for several days afterward as well-known pundits across the political spectrum argued about the issue over the airwaves. Cinco de Mayo is observed by some as a celebration of Mexican heritage.

The three students have since graduated, but a federal appeals court in San Francisco on Thursday will consider their lawsuit alleging the school violated their free speech and equal protections rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. The three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is not expected to rule Thursday.

A lower court tossed out the students' lawsuit in December 2011, ruling that school administrators have wide legal latitude to ensure the safety and effective operation of their campuses and a "perceived threat" of violence vindicated the principal's decision.

The lower court judge who tossed out the case, the now-retired Chief Judge James Ware, noted that "our Constitution grants public school children only limited First Amendment rights when they enter the schoolhouse gates," while conceding this particular case has landed in "important legal territory."

University of California, Los Angeles, law professor and free speech expert Eugene Volokh calls such punishment a "heckler's veto." In public, speakers are protected from such a restriction and allowed to voice most opinions. On-campus students don't enjoy the same free speech rights.

"A school may restrict a student's speech," Volokh said, "to prevent unruly disruptions."

Still, Volokh said administrators can -- and sometimes do -- go too far and overreact to a perceived threat that may not cause a big enough on-campus stir to warrant the censorship.

"The fact of the matter is that these Americans were punished for wearing the American flag at an American school," Volokh said.

The students' lawyers work for three separate nonprofit legal centers dedicated to politically conservative causes.

William J. Becker Jr., of the newly formed Freedom X organization based in Los Angeles, said in a phone interview Wednesday that the trial court judge who tossed out the case was "unfortunately too wrapped up in political correctness" in ruling the school's action was appropriate because administrators perceived a threat. Lawyers with the Thomas More Law Center and American Freedom Law center, both based in Ann Arbor, Mich., also represent the former students.

Becker argues that to censor students' free speech rights, an actual and "immediate" threat of violence or disruption has to be apparent.

"Nobody is alleging that any disruption was caused by the shirts," Becker said. "The students in this case were deprived of their Constitutional rights simply by displaying their patriotism."

School officials and their lawyer didn't return phone calls Wednesday.

"This is not a case about the flag, or the First Amendment rights of adults in a public forum," the school district lawyer's argued in court papers. "This is a case about whether we allow school administrators, familiar with the circumstances in their schools, to take reasonable steps to protect student safety in the face of threats and a history of violence."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/17/appeals-court-to-consider-calif-school-cinco-de-mayo-american-flag-ban/