ALL ABOUT DECA AND NPP

[nosleep]

BROīS SOMEONE MIND FILLING ME IN.

WE ALL KNOW TEST 300MG IS MINIMUM, EQ 600MG MINIMUM, TREN ACE IS LIKE 200MG MINIMUM, ETC....WHATīS DECAS ROUND 350-400?

IF 750MG WAS UR CYCLE, WOULD YOU GO 375MG TEST, 375MG DECA OR 500MG DECA, 250MG TEST OR SOME OTHER COMBO LIKE 450 DECA, 300 TEST OR 450 TEST, 300 DECA?

AND WHATS THE HIGHEST DOSE DECA UD EVER DO, OR HAVE EVER DONE???

[makaveli25]

Good question I still haven't tried them.

[claymore]

Real deca (Norma) you can get away with 300mg a week and see some decent results for joint relief and muscle building, NPP 300mg a week works pretty damn good as well. NPP you hold less water and it definitely pushes the muscles making you look fuller and round. (I personally think even more than deca) Depending your goals and what your current weight and experience is something like 750mg of test and maybe 300mg of deca would work great. Considering everything you have is real of coarse.

[aesthetics]

even though NPP is a shorter acting hormone the ester attached to it is still very heavy and both npp and deca have about the same amount of nandrolone in them, but due to the faster onset and clearance npp will cause a higher initial peak in nandrolone blood plasma levels compared to deca which has to build up over awhile (you can frontload though).

trt dosages of deca-durabolin is like 150mg, 200mg at the very most. nandrolone is pretty equivalent in strength to test, but the ester attached to nandrolone is a bit larger so you have less hormone per ml injected than with test-e or test-p. so bodybuilding dosages of deca would be pretty close to test, i'd say 400 is minimum i'd run to try to grow off it, but i'd run more just because i like heavy dosages.

i've ran 1.5gr as the most for deca, didn't have issues with the deca but i did with the test i was running alongside it. deca itself gives me a weird type of gyno feeling in my nipples, no amount of aromasin or letrozole will fix it, had to use nolva to get rid of the sensation. tren does the same to me, but as far as i know it didn't give any gyno.

[nosleep]

Real deca (Norma) you can get away with 300mg a week and see some decent results for joint relief and muscle building, NPP 300mg a week works pretty damn good as well. NPP you hold less water and it definitely pushes the muscles making you look fuller and round. (I personally think even more than deca) Depending your goals and what your current weight and experience is something like 750mg of test and maybe 300mg of deca would work great. Considering everything you have is real of coarse.

WONT BE NORMA, OR HG. ITīD BE TOP CHEF DECA OR NPP.

YOU THINK 450 TEST, 300 DECA IS SUFFICIENT? TRYING TO KEEP IT IN THE 750 RANGE....GONNA GO 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500 THEN GH IT AT A GRAM...BUILD IT UP.

@ MAKAVELI....GREAT CONTRIBUTION.
@ AESTHETICS...U SAYING THE TEST HURT U WHILE ON DECA?

[Borracho]

even though NPP is a shorter acting hormone the ester attached to it is still very heavy and both npp and deca have about the same amount of nandrolone in them, but due to the faster onset and clearance npp will cause a higher initial peak in nandrolone blood plasma levels compared to deca which has to build up over awhile (you can frontload though).

trt dosages of deca-durabolin is like 150mg, 200mg at the very most. nandrolone is pretty equivalent in strength to test, but the ester attached to nandrolone is a bit larger so you have less hormone per ml injected than with test-e or test-p. so bodybuilding dosages of deca would be pretty close to test, i'd say 400 is minimum i'd run to try to grow off it, but i'd run more just because i like heavy dosages.

i've ran 1.5gr as the most for deca, didn't have issues with the deca but i did with the test i was running alongside it. deca itself gives me a weird type of gyno feeling in my nipples, no amount of aromasin or letrozole will fix it, had to use nolva to get rid of the sensation. tren does the same to me, but as far as i know it didn't give any gyno.

I read somewhere that progesterone induced gyno will actually cause one to lactate instead of growing the tissue like estrogen would.  

[aesthetics]

WONT BE NORMA, OR HG. ITīD BE TOP CHEF DECA OR NPP.

YOU THINK 450 TEST, 300 DECA IS SUFFICIENT? TRYING TO KEEP IT IN THE 750 RANGE....GONNA GO 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500 THEN GH IT AT A GRAM...BUILD IT UP.

@ MAKAVELI....GREAT CONTRIBUTION.
@ AESTHETICS...U SAYING THE TEST HURT U WHILE ON DECA?

i ran real high dose test, i can't handle test over 1.5gr, around 2g i feel REAL bad all the time. no energy, no motivation, feels like my heart is dying. also, test makes me lose hair like nothing else, so i hate test.

depends on how you react to test bro, and yeah, you'll grow off good quality test and deca at 750/wk. don't think it makes a difference if you taper it up versus just hitting high dosage right away because initial gains are from the increase of intercellular water and higher androgens levels in your blood causing your muscle fibers to contract more effectively, which is why you get the plateau off the dosage relatively quickly, it doesn't mean your actual muscle fibers aren't still growing at that dosage.

you know yourself if you run higher dosages you'll get bigger faster, you actually increase the amount of androgen receptors the more hormones you run so you can't actually hit a real plateau off of a dosage until you hit your body's maximum size for that hormone level, which depends on how well of a responder you are. keeping the dosages low is just for health and side effect reasons, as the higher you go with dosage the less benefit you get while the worse the sides are, under 1 gram is the best ratio of benefits to sides, 2 grams is not too bad but 3 grams becomes rough.

[aesthetics]

I read somewhere that progesterone induced gyno will actually cause one to lactate instead of growing the tissue like estrogen would.  

i have a good friend who had leaky nipples from just 700 tren/wk by itself

prolactin causes it mostly, and growth hormone increases prolactin levels. but you can lower prolactin levels with cabergoline or pramiplexe. letrozole works well for stopping tren sides.

[nosleep]

I DO NOT WANT TO GO BALLS DEEP, CAUSE ID O NOT KNOW HOW DECA WILL AFFECT MY LIBIDO AND I ALREADY KNOW TEST MAKES ME TOO HAIRY AND MAKES HAIR FALL OFF MY HEAD AT JUST 500MG.

PLUS, IVE RESPONDED DAMN WELL OFF OF LOWER DOSAGE..ONLY REASON WHY I THINK OTHERS HAVENT IS BECAUSE MY GEAR IS LEGIT.

[Borracho]

i have a good friend who had leaky nipples from just 700 tren/wk by itself

prolactin causes it mostly, and growth hormone increases prolactin levels. but you can lower prolactin levels with cabergoline or pramiplexe. letrozole works well for stopping tren sides.

To me it seems like it would be easier to deal with cause once you stopped, lowered the dose, or throw in caber/prami you'd go back to normal right??

I mean there wouldn't be any residual effects like with estrogen gyno would there?

[aesthetics]

I DO NOT WANT TO GO BALLS DEEP, CAUSE ID O NOT KNOW HOW DECA WILL AFFECT MY LIBIDO AND I ALREADY KNOW TEST MAKES ME TOO HAIRY AND MAKES HAIR FALL OFF MY HEAD AT JUST 500MG.

PLUS, IVE RESPONDED DAMN WELL OFF OF LOWER DOSAGE..ONLY REASON WHY I THINK OTHERS HAVENT IS BECAUSE MY GEAR IS LEGIT.

yeah, i agree. you don't need high dosages to grow, it's not a necessity until you get to your genetic max and then HGH and slin will be what makes you grow at that point anyways. but some people, like me ( ) are just impatient and like high dosages.  

if you want to see how you react to just nandrolone, run some npp by itself for a week or 2 and see how you feel. if you get libido issues (not everyone does) you can add a little test-p and see how you feel. everyone responds and reacts differently to different compounds, you just have to play around with them and experiment, which is usually best done with 1 compound at a time that has a short ester. that's how i did it and would recommend it anyways, some times adding compounds together gives weird sides like deca + tren.

if you want to keep your hair, and not grow anymore bodyhair then i'd run deca as the base, keep deca dose high and a low dose test according to how well you feel. also, you can run d-bol in place of the test too since d-bol is like oral test but the problem with d-bol is you get some shitty cramping and awful pumps. if you run eq and d-bol together you can barely work biceps because your pump will be so bad you can't close your hands to grip a dumb bell.

[nosleep]

To me it seems like it would be easier to deal with cause once you stopped, lowered the dose, or throw in caber/prami you'd go back to normal right??

I mean there wouldn't be any residual effects like with estrogen gyno would there?

LOSING THE GAINS THEN.

@ AESTHETICS....YA 450 OR 500 DECA OR NPP, 250 OR 300 TEST IT IS BUT AWAITING GH15S WORD....DECA IS MORE AFFORDABLE BUT I AM CURIOUS ABOUT NPP, MAY DO A MIX.

[aesthetics]

To me it seems like it would be easier to deal with cause once you stopped, lowered the dose, or throw in caber/prami you'd go back to normal right??

I mean there wouldn't be any residual effects like with estrogen gyno would there?

i think it's permanent once you grow gyno and let it set in. there's a small window after your breast tissue enlarges where you can zap it with letro or nolva and it will shrink back down. but, with progestin and prolactin gyno effects, any estrogen will vastly increase the effects of it, which is why letro works real well to diminish progestin and prolactin sides. masteron is pretty effective at stopping gyno sides too because it's so androgenic it will cancel out the effects of estrogen, kind of like nolva.

[aesthetics]

LOSING THE GAINS THEN.

@ AESTHETICS....YA 450 OR 500 DECA OR NPP, 250 OR 300 TEST IT IS BUT AWAITING GH15S WORD....DECA IS MORE AFFORDABLE BUT I AM CURIOUS ABOUT NPP, MAY DO A MIX.

i'd strongly suggest you get some npp first, and run it by itself for 2 weeks to see how you feel, run it at 400/week, or 600/wk for 2 weeks and see how you feel at those dosages with nothing else. that way you know how you'll respond to deca because deca has a 11 day half life, takes a very, very long time to kick in and if you don't like it, then it also takes a long time to leave the body. that's my advice any ways. if you do well on nandrolone then yeah, run nandrolone-decaonoate, frontload that shit first and second week or run npp first and second week along with the deca so it kicks in right away.

[nosleep]

IM ALWAYS GONNA BE ON 250MG TEST..SO ILL ADD THE NPP TO IT.

[Borracho]

i think it's permanent once you grow gyno and let it set in. there's a small window after your breast tissue enlarges where you can zap it with letro or nolva and it will shrink back down. but, with progestin and prolactin gyno effects, any estrogen will vastly increase the effects of it, which is why letro works real well to diminish progestin and prolactin sides. masteron is pretty effective at stopping gyno sides too because it's so androgenic it will cancel out the effects of estrogen, kind of like nolva.

Hypothetical question here...lets say that you're  just using deca in large doses. Do you think that one would see tissue growth? Would there be enough estrogen to induce growth or would you just get milky tits? Or does progestin and prolactin not need estrogen to be present in order to grow moobs ?

[aesthetics]

Hypothetical question here...lets say that you're  just using deca in large doses. Do you think that one would see tissue growth? Would there be enough estrogen to induce growth or would you just get milky tits? Or does progestin and prolactin not need estrogen to be present in order to grow moobs ?

i don't know, it's very dependent on the person. people react so differently to progestins it's like night and day for different people with regard to physiological and psychological sides. some people go flipping nuts if they run tren, myself i feel and think much better and my libido stays intact while others are the complete opposite.

people even can get specific but different 19-nor sides from either deca or tren but not both, even though both are 19-nors. tren and deca are really inexplicable, i wish i knew why or how they cause such different reactions in people but i don't and there's been tons of debates ongoing for years on why they do so. i believe personally it's because they can bind to progesterone receptors and activate the receptor but a lot of smart people disagree with it. really don't know, so to answer your question it is user dependent and you may or may not, that's my best answer.

[Borracho]

These drugs are really unpredictable aren't they. EveryBODY is different and its impossible to tell how one person will react to a certain compound till he/she actually tries it on themselves. I've even heard of people not responding to anti e's like adex and nolva and still get gyno from just test. Then you start to think if you're ingesting what you think you are and that brings with it another issue.

Another thing I've seen from reading the boards is that sometimes people react differently to a certain compound. What I mean is that maybe that they've used dbol before with no issues and all of a sudden they take it and have sides they've never experienced before. Have you seen that before or experienced it?? seems like you know what you're talking about so just trying to pick your brain 

[g101]

you want NPP !

[aesthetics]

These drugs are really unpredictable aren't they. EveryBODY is different and its impossible to tell how one person will react to a certain compound till he/she actually tries it on themselves. I've even heard of people not responding to anti e's like adex and nolva and still get gyno from just test. Then you start to think if you're ingesting what you think you are and that brings with it another issue.

Another thing I've seen from reading the boards is that sometimes people react differently to a certain compound. What I mean is that maybe that they've used dbol before with no issues and all of a sudden they take it and have sides they've never experienced before. Have you seen that before or experienced it?? seems like you know what you're talking about so just trying to pick your brain  

hmmm, i don't know how to explain that except that using drugs with other drugs can sometimes amplify effects that were previously unnoticed before, like for instance if someone used tren before and didn't notice any psychological side effects but when combined with deca they experience severe psychological side effects or inversely if someone experienced psychological sides from tren alone then ran high dose test, the aromatization of the test to estrogen counteracts tren's effects on the brain and their once previous side effects seem to just vanish.

or, people could buy faked gear and get another compounds than what they ordered, or possibly it was cut with something else and thus giving different sides. both are common occurrences with ugls. side effects should generally be consistent unless something within the body changes, like adding different drugs into the equation.

[Borracho]

hmmm, i don't know how to explain that except that using drugs with other drugs can sometimes amplify effects that were previously unnoticed before, like for instance if someone used tren before and didn't notice any psychological side effects but when combined with deca they experience severe psychological side effects or inversely if someone experienced psychological sides from tren alone then ran high dose test, the aromatization of the test to estrogen counteracts tren's effects on the brain and their once previous side effects seem to just vanish.

or, people could buy faked gear and get another compounds than what they ordered, or possibly it was cut with something else and thus giving different sides. both are common occurrences with ugls. side effects should generally be consistent unless something within the body changes, like adding different drugs into the equation.

All logical explanations you posted. Lets just say that these people are actually running the same compounds, all legit as they claim to be. Could it be that something within the body changes ?? Like a change in your receptors.....

I've seen it happen with other kinds of drugs, mainly the psychoactive kind. Might not be a good comparison but if you react differently over time to a drug psychologically than a physiological change had to occur as well.  I really don't know if that makes any sense

[Arnold jr]

I don't understand where you're getting these number from. Why is 600mg/EQ the minimum? What's so magical about that number? That's like saying 12wks of a certain steroid is more magical than 11 or 13.

Anyway, in my opinion, as for Deca-Durabolin:

*For joint relief 100mg per wk is all that's needed.
*For performance, 200mg per wk is the minimum dose to see performance results. This is not to imply this is the recommended dose, there is no one size fits all recommended dose. 200mg would simply be the minimum, and if it is true 100% Deca-Durabolin you'd get results.

[aesthetics]

receptor sites don't change in how they react to androgens, they merely just upregulate or downregulate. if you run a lot of steroids your androgen receptors in the muscles will upregulate, i believe the same applies to androgen receptors in other parts of the body and they can also downregulate if inactive for long enough. which all it really means is your cells birth more receptor sites or decrease the number of them.  

i don't really know anything about psychological drugs, i don't touch any recreational drugs, lol. the effects of hormones on the brain are temporary, once there's a decrease or increase you'll have changes in mood, behavior or thinking in relation to the change in hormone. but there could be natural genetic changes to the body, like a thyroid tumor and as a result you produce excess thyroid hormone, which has a cascading effect on the rest of the body, such as increased level of somatostatin which signals a decrease in production of growth hormone, on top of the changed thyroid and probably cortisol levels which can greatly effect how a person feels. by and large though, using bodybuilding steroids aren't going to have any side effects that will persist after cessation by themselves (granted you still have endogenous androgens that may continue the effects of what the steroids caused, prime example is hair loss or growth from the bodies test production), but the lifestyle that comes along with steroid abuse would be the more likely culprit to cause long lasting effects to the body.

[Borracho]

I don't understand what up and down regulation really mean to be honest. Is it like having to take more or less drugs to have the same effect?

If thats the case than maybe it could be an explanation why someone would experience sides they haven't before. Like becoming more sensitive to a drugs androgenic/estrogenic side effects.

[howardroark]

Lots of bad advice in this thread...

People need to learn the difference between what a SERM does, what an AI does, and what a dopamine agonist does. Then they have to learn the difference between how a progestin like 19-nors cause gyno and how a testosterone-derivative causes gyno.