Best way to come off with minimum muscle loss?

[Lebaneselion]

First 11 weeks was on test e 500mg with dbols here and there and last 5 weeks deca at 500mg a week im
Forced to stop for now and wont be on for a while i have some nolvadex and arimidex whats the best method to come off smoothly with minimum muscle loss???

[Arnold jr]

First 11 weeks was on test e 500mg with dbols here and there and last 5 weeks deca at 500mg a week im
Forced to stop for now and wont be on for a while i have some nolvadex and arimidex whats the best method to come off smoothly with minimum muscle loss???

You're going to lose some, that's inevitable...I know, sucks.

Nolvadex:

Wk 1: 40mg/ed
Wk 2: 40mg/ed
Wk 3: 40mg/ed
Wk 4: 20mg/ed
Wk 5: 20mg/ed

You could throw in a wk at 10mg/ed if you wanted, but it probably won't make that big of a difference.

I would include HCG if you have access. 500-1,000iu/ed for 10 days before starting Nolvadex. If you go the HCG route, start HCG 10-12 days after your last Deca and test shots, then start Nolva. If you're only going to use Nolva, start it 15-18 days after your last Deca and test shots.

Something else, back off your training. This doesn't mean stop training, but you'll more than likely need to cut the volume back a little bit if you're going to preserve anything. Also, make sure you're still eating enough to support the muscle you have, but you'll also need to be careful to not overeat because your metabolism is now going to be a little slower and this is when it's the easiest to put on fat.

This is not directed at you but the rest of the board....a lot of you really have a problem with PCT plans these days saying they're a waste. Well, if you're going to come off for a long time, the guy who runs a PCT plan will keep more muscle than the one who doesn't. They'll both lose muscle but the PCT guy will keep more....to say otherwise doesn't even begin to make sense.

[oni]

What is your opinion on running say 10-20mg a day of dbol after coming off and the first week or so of PCT to keep you anabolic while you restart your natural testosterone production?

[Lebaneselion]

You're going to lose some, that's inevitable...I know, sucks.

Nolvadex:

Wk 1: 40mg/ed
Wk 2: 40mg/ed
Wk 3: 40mg/ed
Wk 4: 20mg/ed
Wk 5: 20mg/ed

You could throw in a wk at 10mg/ed if you wanted, but it probably won't make that big of a difference.

I would include HCG if you have access. 500-1,000iu/ed for 10 days before starting Nolvadex. If you go the HCG route, start HCG 10-12 days after your last Deca and test shots, then start Nolva. If you're only going to use Nolva, start it 15-18 days after your last Deca and test shots.

Something else, back off your training. This doesn't mean stop training, but you'll more than likely need to cut the volume back a little bit if you're going to preserve anything. Also, make sure you're still eating enough to support the muscle you have, but you'll also need to be careful to not overeat because your metabolism is now going to be a little slower and this is when it's the easiest to put on fat.

This is not directed at you but the rest of the board....a lot of you really have a problem with PCT plans these days saying they're a waste. Well, if you're going to come off for a long time, the guy who runs a PCT plan will keep more muscle than the one who doesn't. They'll both lose muscle but the PCT guy will keep more....to say otherwise doesn't even begin to make sense.

Thanks bro is there a way i can use arimidex instea of nolvadex coz only have 10 nolvadex left

[Jovo]

what went wrong bro ? why are you stopping ?

[Lebaneselion]

what went wrong bro ? why are you stopping ?

Nothing man jst travelling overseas soon for 3 months

[Jovo]

Nothing man jst travelling overseas soon for 3 months

haha if that place is lebanon no need to stop 

[Lebaneselion]

haha if that place is lebanon no need to stop 

Haha yes it is bu i thought id give my body a break

[Jovo]

Haha yes it is bu i thought id give my body a break

haha u think that now , but when you get to lebanon it will be a diffrent story

[buselmo]

1- to not lose anything... stay on
2- minimal loss... just come off... the gear is self tapering... what's your bf? if it's 8% or under, just keep on training and lay off the food a bit. stay hungry, but not starving. no need for PCT... always felt like shit on PCT... without PCT, i don't even feel like anything is wrong.

if you're over 10% bf... you'll look like shit no matter what... muscles will deflate, fat will stay or increase... meaning bf% goes up while losing weight. and if you diet down, you'll lose more muscle and bf% goes up even more. that's why i tell ppl who want to take a break to reach 6-8% bf first then do it.
also, it'll make it much easier to look kick ass again after a layoff of hormones.

[Arnold jr]

What is your opinion on running say 10-20mg a day of dbol after coming off and the first week or so of PCT to keep you anabolic while you restart your natural testosterone production?

That would defeat the purpose of the PCT plan.

[Arnold jr]

Thanks bro is there a way i can use arimidex instea of nolvadex coz only have 10 nolvadex left

I'm not a big fan of AI's for PCT due to the estrogen suppression. That's fine on cycle, but part of the point in a PCT is to help you normalize overall.

[Arnold jr]

1- to not lose anything... stay on
2- minimal loss... just come off... the gear is self tapering... what's your bf? if it's 8% or under, just keep on training and lay off the food a bit. stay hungry, but not starving. no need for PCT... always felt like shit on PCT... without PCT, i don't even feel like anything is wrong.

if you're over 10% bf... you'll look like shit no matter what... muscles will deflate, fat will stay or increase... meaning bf% goes up while losing weight. and if you diet down, you'll lose more muscle and bf% goes up even more. that's why i tell ppl who want to take a break to reach 6-8% bf first then do it.
also, it'll make it much easier to look kick ass again after a layoff of hormones.

These are the kind of post that drive me crazy! Yes, we all know you'll keep more muscle if you stay on, but sometimes life doesn't always work exactly like we want it to. I think next time I come across a deaf person I'm going to tell them they should listen if they want to hear what I have to say.

Eating less....this can be a hard balance to find...if you eat less than what you were to support the tissue you built while on you'll have no way to support it when off. Of course, it's easy to gain fat if you're eating the same amount of calories. It's a fine line and can vary a little for everyone. But I agree, more than likely BF will go up. It's inevitable.

If you're 10% or over your muscles are not going to "deflate" more than they would if you were 8%...this doesn't even make sense. Sure, the guy who's 8% or lower will look more muscular, but that's just because he has less body-fat and that always makes you look more muscular.

I'm not sure why you "feel like shit" on PCT, that's pretty weird. If you're off-cycle and following a PCT plan you should feel better, in-fact, if not something is wrong with the plan more than likely. Increasing natural testosterone good, low testosterone bad.

[aesthetics]

you won't lose muscle, but you will lose size. just keep training and eating well while avoiding getting drunk too much

[Lebaneselion]

Thanks heaps for the help guys

And i wont lose muscle? So How do u mean i wont lose size??

Ok il keep the calories up high and cut down training each muscle to once a week instead of twice

[Jaime]

1- to not lose anything... stay on
2- minimal loss... just come off... the gear is self tapering... what's your bf? if it's 8% or under, just keep on training and lay off the food a bit. stay hungry, but not starving. no need for PCT... always felt like shit on PCT... without PCT, i don't even feel like anything is wrong.

if you're over 10% bf... you'll look like shit no matter what... muscles will deflate, fat will stay or increase... meaning bf% goes up while losing weight. and if you diet down, you'll lose more muscle and bf% goes up even more. that's why i tell ppl who want to take a break to reach 6-8% bf first then do it.
also, it'll make it much easier to look kick ass again after a layoff of hormones.

Interesting, i like this idea better than running pct.

[Arnold jr]

you won't lose muscle, but you will lose size. just keep training and eating well while avoiding getting drunk too much

Of course you'll lose muscle, it's impossible to not lose some if you're going to be off for an extended period of time.

In-order to gain the muscle on-cycle, it took a high influx of hormones to support the growth, and without this high influx of hormones to support it some is going to be lost.

[oni]

That would defeat the purpose of the PCT plan.

I was under the impression that 10mg a day wouldn't have an effect on your HPTA
It mentioned it on steroid.com on the dbol article but my opinion of that site goes down every day so I thought I'd ask here

[Jaime]

Of course you'll lose muscle, it's impossible to not lose some if you're going to be off for an extended period of time.

In-order to gain the muscle on-cycle, it took a high influx of hormones to support the growth, and without this high influx of hormones to support it some is going to be lost.

How far you are over your natural limit is a big factor.

[Lebaneselion]

Im
Not sure if over my natural limit i been training since 12

Im 5'7 80 kilo 16 inch arms not sure of rest

[Lebaneselion]

Im 19 in may

[Arnold jr]

I was under the impression that 10mg a day wouldn't have an effect on your HPTA
It mentioned it on steroid.com on the dbol article but my opinion of that site goes down every day so I thought I'd ask here

10mg per day may not suppress you greatly, but it still defeats the purpose in-regards to total recovery which is normalizing overall. Further, it's just delaying the inevitable.

steroid.com is one of the better if not the best AAS site out there. All the articles and profiles and things of that nature, you'll find some variances with many of them, but that's because they're written by different people. Even so, most of the guys who write for steroid.com are some of the most knowledgeable guys in-regards to hormones on earth. I know most of them personally, most of them very well and I'd say there's more real life experience between all of them than any other website out there. 

[gatorr]

Sorry bro but if it was built using hormones and your going off for some time you will lose pretty well all of it. When you go you will not even feel like training but try to force yourself to get to the gym. Thats the truth not some crap PCT  will save you, it wont. Been there. Just stay on or your going to regret coming off.

[Arnold jr]

Sorry bro but if it was built using hormones and your going off for some time you will lose pretty well all of it. When you go you will not even feel like training but try to force yourself to get to the gym. Thats the truth not some crap PCT  will save you, it wont. Been there. Just stay on or your going to regret coming off.

Yes, with or without a PCT plan you're going to lose some muscle, that's indisputable. Even so, the guy who runs a PCT plan should be able to keep a little more. Will it be a massive difference? Probably not, but I for one would want to take every advantage I can.

That said, most of you seem to be missing the big picture when it comes to PCT, and the big picture has nothing to do with keeping or losing muscle. When you come off, your testosterone levels are going to be low, and assuming you're going to be off for a good while (which is exactly what this thread implies) while your levels will continue to naturally climb it can take a year or more to fully recover. Varying factors will determine the total recovery as well as an inability should that occur.

Then we have the guy who runs a PCT plan, and no, there's no PCT plan on earth that is going to fully recover your testosterone levels, but it will stimulate enough natural testosterone for you to function properly while your levels continue to climb naturally, and while it will still take a good bit of time after PCT to fully recover, it's going to be faster.

People can continue to knock it, but a low testosterone condition is probably one of the most unhealthy conditions you can put your body into, and if you're off-cycle and off for an extended period of time that's exactly what's going to happen unless you take some kind of action.

Last thing, more of a side-note....not everyone wants to stay on all the time, not everyone can, and if this happens, especially the latter, telling someone to skip a PCT plan because some internet cowboy said it was for pussies, well this is idiotic.

[tbombz]

i always look leaner when im off  but ive got a soft midsection either way..