Author Topic: Do you buy premium fuel?  (Read 15163 times)

225for70

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2012, 10:11:50 PM »

Thanks.  ;)

But can you be more specific about what you agree with?  That premium fuel is unnecessary for the vast majority of drivers/cars?  Or that lots of random station owners are charging for higher grades of fuel but really selling you the low grade and you don't even know it?

-[

I would say that its unnecessary for the 99%..

HTexan

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2012, 10:29:23 PM »
That the Smart Car requires premium fuel underscores my point and makes a mockery of the notion that one needs premium for "performance engines."  It's practically a cartoon on wheels.  ::)
Like I said high compression, tuning, cleaner burn. High performance is a relative term. Let's say an engine, 9:1 ratio makes 120 hp 90 tq. A company could raise the ratio to 11:1, do some tuning for higher octane gas. And get a 140 hp 110 tq. Most people see the 140hp maybe a little better mpg and think it is better ignoring the octane required.  Hell, they could start letting the engine breath. Port and hone intakes, and head/s raise the revs, beefier rods, etc. And get a "special performance version " 160 hp but lowering the tq. this is just a made up example. It is a lot more complicated then that.
A

BayGBM

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2012, 10:34:39 PM »

Just thinking about it bay you made me cring

 :'(

Young fool... only now... at the end... do you understand!  ;D

Yev33

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2012, 11:21:36 PM »
As someone who works on the technical side in the auto industry for a highline manufacturer I can honestly tell you that there are engines that truly require premium fuel. You can have rough running issues which will result in check engine lights. We have had to tell owners to stop putting shit gas in their car or don't complain about your check engine light coming on and your car running rough at times. Really amazing to see someone be able to spend more 60-200k on a car and complain about the cost of premium fuel.

Now this doesn't apply to all engines. For the most part with modern engines you will get a small benefit from running premium in terms of economy and performance. How much? All depends on what you have, and you are going to have to do an expirement, at the end of which you can see if the added economy outweighs the higher gas prices.

When people talk about higher grade gas, those who know a little bit will talk about performance. But that performance comes from better efficiency in the combustion chamber, which is why if you will also see better gas milage ( provided you are conservative with the accelerator).
The two pictures that Bay posted are of the Smart car and the Acura RDX. The Acura RDX has a turbocharged engine, anything with forced induction will benefit from a higher grade gas. As far as the Smart car, their whole thing is about milage. So if using premium gets an extra 1-2 mpg, in  their minds it's worth it.  


avxo

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2012, 01:08:26 AM »
That the Smart Car requires premium fuel underscores my point and makes a mockery of the notion that one needs premium for "performance engines."  It's practically a cartoon on wheels.  ::)

You are being dense... it's not just about performance; it is also for efficiency. When you're running on lower grade gasoline, the engine management system will adjust a number of parameters to prevent knocking, and may operate using sub-optimal settings. Even if you don't care about performance, you should still be concerned about the potential increased fuel consumption and/or increased emissions.

There are vehicles that legitimately require high-grade gasoline, and we're not talking supercars either. Whether you believe that is up to you. And as I said before, you may not feel that putting the recommended gasoline in a vehicle is worth while, but your feelings are just that -- feelings.

Parker

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2012, 02:38:02 AM »

I have tried that experiment several times over the years on my last two cars.  Maybe if I was a drag racer I would notice a significant difference, but in my day-to-day driving I find the difference to be negligible.

I can imagine scenarios with certain vehicles when one would want premium fuel for maximum performance.  Just as I can imagine a time when expensive premium wheels and tires would also make a difference, but do I need that performance difference often enough to justify the expense?  No.  And neither do 97% of drivers.

The speedometer in my car goes up to 180mph!  Am I ever going to drive that fast?  No.  I haven’t even gone half that fast in the last thirty days.  Similarly, I simply do not "need" the performance boost I could get from premium fuel.   ::)  I am quite happy with my car's performance without premium fuel.

Some time ago, I recall an undercover investigation by a program like 20/20 where they scoped out an independently owned gas station and found out that all three grades of gasoline were actually coming from the exact same underground tank, but the station was charging for the two higher octanes when, in fact, there was no difference among them.  I have no reason to think this is a common practice—in fact I am sure it is not—but I think the driving habits of most people simply do not justify premium fuel.

My dad is so cheap, that he prices gas, and in our area, Giant, the supermarket chain, apparently has an agreement with Shell for like 5 cents off of a gallon or 5 cents off per gallon...something like that. Anyway, I have tried different places, BP, Shell, Citgo...and buying mid grade, or low grade i can tell the performance and MPG difference. BP tends to put Ethanol in their 93, and my car tends to be very responsive when i put that in it.. When I had my Taurus, you could hear the car pinging when accelerating---on high test, you didn't get that pinging or sluggishness. And one time it helped my car pass emissions, funny my dad failed it putting low grade, but once he put high test in, his passed (coincidence?)

no one

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2012, 03:18:58 AM »


dear idiot,

why would you buy a car knowing it requires 91 or better octane fuel and not fuel it with that?

i think your more the moron than those who use high octane fuels, simply because you were stupid enough to buy a car requiring a high octane fuel when your too cheap to use it.
b

BayGBM

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2012, 06:53:06 AM »
This engine requires premium fuel for best performance.  ;D

Parker

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2012, 08:02:14 AM »

dear idiot,

why would you buy a car knowing it requires 91 or better octane fuel and not fuel it with that?

i think your more the moron than those who use high octane fuels, simply because you were stupid enough to buy a car requiring a high octane fuel when your too cheap to use it.
A few yrs ago, back during the Bush Administration---that time of almost 5 dollar gas, I overheard a woman complain about how high the gas was---she drove a 7 Series...
I'm thinking "you drive a 745i, you shouldn't be complaining about gas prices, your ass should be able to afford it."

HTexan

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2012, 08:24:29 AM »
A few yrs ago, back during the Bush Administration---that time of almost 5 dollar gas, I overheard a woman complain about how high the gas was---she drove a 7 Series...
I'm thinking "you drive a 745i, you shouldn't be complaining about gas prices, your ass should be able to afford it."
Haha
A

BayGBM

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2012, 08:30:33 AM »
Haha

That's what the station owner is thinking when he sells you regular grade fuel at the premium price--and you never know the difference. :-X

reppingfor20

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2012, 08:36:33 AM »
That's what the station owner is thinking when he sells you regular grade fuel at the premium price--and you never know the difference. :-X

more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)
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kh300

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2012, 08:41:38 AM »
more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)

Yes my oil cap on my car says only Mobile 1 synthetic. The owners manual makes you believe if you put any thing other then mobile into the engine it will blow up. I read on the forums they had a deal with Mobile and it makes 0 difference.

HTexan

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2012, 08:54:41 AM »
Yes my oil cap on my car says only Mobile 1 synthetic. The owners manual makes you believe if you put any thing other then mobile into the engine it will blow up. I read on the forums they had a deal with Mobile and it makes 0 difference.
Hahaha the should make a car that says only Exxon gas ;D
A lot of companies are requiring synthetic because it improves emissions and mpg to a lesser degree. You should be able to run a blend with no problems tho.
A

Parker

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2012, 09:00:05 AM »
more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)
As was stated and examples were given before. The car companies know what works best for the cars. You have higher compression ratios, gearing, turbos, cams, etc.

Think, a V6 Toyota Camry today had what, 275 hp? Back in the mid 90s, a V8 Camaro had that. Plus, there are different additives It's not about racing---if you want to go old school, do like my dad does, he puts in gas, and everytime, he writes down the mileage, the type of gas, how much it cost, and the MPGs. He calculates it, he doesn't use the trip computer. He has logs from 40 some yrs, each car he and my mother have driven he had kept running logs. His gas mileage according to him and his logs was better on high test than low test. But, he is cheap so he buys low grade...

When I say that there is a difference, we are not talking "oh shit", but there is marginal difference if you notice the pick up of your car when you are accelerating from the light or in traffic. Most of us are too distracted by the radio, convos, eating, drinking, to just listen. My first car was shitbox, so every ping, rattle, or knock I heard...I listened. I turned off the radio.

There are ties between the auto industry and oil industry, but a lot of them are being broken which is why you are seeing more exotic combos when it comes to alternate drivetrains---electric, hybrid, etc.

Bay, when you compare the different fuels offered by the different gas companies (I haven't), see the additives, and then put them in your car, then we can say, "Brand X fuel is the sane thru-out 87,91, and 93 octane"

it's kinda like motor oil, depending on the engine, there are different viscosity/weights that recommended, and then different brands---sometimes said brand worked with said car company in developing motor oils for their whole product line, as many companies use the same engine thru-out their line up.

You know as well as I, that there is a lot of research that goes into gas and oil. Who would a person trust when it comes to a research paper, Bay who is encrusted in Academia or the high school grad who just read "Native Son"?

D.O.U.P

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2012, 09:37:18 AM »
Does a 2000 bmw 528I need premium?

Parker

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2012, 09:46:22 AM »
Does a 2000 bmw 528I need premium?
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

D.O.U.P

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2012, 11:00:07 AM »
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

THANKS

BayGBM

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2012, 11:08:06 AM »
more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)

Bingo.  If cars as cheap as the Smart car ($13,590) are now requiring premium fuel why don’t they just eliminate the lower grades and sell one premium grade? ???

reppingfor20

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2012, 11:52:33 AM »
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

this is you :



I wonder how much I can screw these people out of today, they have no idea what car's need, I'll just tell them all the bullshit in the world and have them over pay and over spend as much as possible so I can profit the most.

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reppingfor20

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2012, 11:56:16 AM »
Bingo.  If cars as cheap as the Smart car ($13,590) are now requiring premium fuel why don’t they just eliminate the lower grades and sell one premium grade? ???

I know and bmw's, mercedes, lexus's don't need premium fuel, they will run forever on 87 grade, I don't know why people buy into it, only thing is I can think of is they got money to waste and don't think about how they spend their money.

Try taking your car to a dealership and getting a quote for a part that is broken, then take it to a good private garage and see the price difference  :o :o :o  then you will realize how bad you are getting screwed.
TEAM Nasser

BayGBM

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2012, 12:11:26 PM »
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

If I am drag racing or delivering a live organ to a hospital in the neighboring town for transplant then I will worry about “optimum engine performance.”  If I am going to the gym, the grocery store, the day care center, and back home then I’ll settle for good enough.

Come to think of it, I have drag raced on regular fuel and done just fine. ;D

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2012, 12:32:21 PM »
How much is premium in USA?

Mid-America $3.85 93 oct

reppingfor20

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2012, 12:36:41 PM »
If I am drag racing or delivering a live organ to a hospital in the neighboring town for transplant then I will worry about “optimum engine performance.”  If I am going to the gym, the grocery store, the day care center, and back home then I’ll settle for good enough.

Come to think of it, I have dragged race on regular fuel and done just fine. ;D

how dare you do that  :(  The dealership service desk attendant would be very mad at your for that  ;D  Great post Bay, probably saving a lot of people money with this.

TEAM Nasser

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Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2012, 12:37:22 PM »
Higher octane fuel burns more slowly.  It is that simple.

As the idea goes, an engine that's designed to work with such fuel will produce a pre-detonation climate if the gas it's given is consumed too quickly during the stroke.