America The Beautiful: Camaro ZL1 vs Mustang GT500

[Parker]

Reviewed by a European (Chris Harris) in NY:

[/youtube]

[NarcissisticDeity]

Harris is the best in the business and great review

I would pick the Mustang , I've owned 3 of them and love em more horsepower than an Enzo 

[Parker]

Harris is the best in the business and great review

I would pick the Mustang , I've owned 3 of them and love em more horsepower than an Enzo 

Yep, agreed on all counts.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yep, agreed on all counts.

Ironic you posted that I was just watching Chris review the everyday utility of the McLaren MP4-12C , I like Harris because he has integrity especially when he called out Ferrari

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

[Bevo]

Mustang for sure tribute to carol shelby

[Parker]

Ironic you posted that I was just watching Chris review the everyday utility of the McLaren MP4-12C , I like Harris because he has integrity especially when he called out Ferrari

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

The Drive channel is very good, I like their Drive Clean episodes, about taking care of the car's paint.

Yes, I agree with you on Chris Harris. Sadly, Ferrari is seemingly getting paranoid that it's offerings may not be up to snuff, as it's competitors are either breathing down it's neck or beating it. And with the likes of Pagani and Konigsegg and Bugatti, Ferrari's label of being the fastest or having the highest top speed has not only been challenged, but it has been surpassed.
It's a shame really, because they have all been about the marketig of the "Ferrari and F1 experience", if they wanted to build a Bugatti beater in all aspects, they could.
But, it's uncalled for, in having two cars for tests, or knowing what track you are going to test at, just to tune it for that track, or not allowing a auto journo to test his friend's Ferrari...

They were doing that back when the F50 came out, and Car and Driver was calling up people, and the factory told them that if they let the mag test their car, they'd lose out on several "perks".
Finally, they got ahold of I believe Don Panoz, who had one of the first F50s (and a XJ15), and come to find out, it's top speed was less than the F40.

[NarcissisticDeity]

The Drive channel is very good, I like their Drive Clean episodes, about taking care of the car's paint.

Yes, I agree with you on Chris Harris. Sadly, Ferrari is seemingly getting paranoid that it's offerings may not be up to snuff, as it's competitors are either breathing down it's neck or beating it. And with the likes of Pagani and Konigsegg and Bugatti, Ferrari's label of being the fastest or having the highest top speed has not only been challenged, but it has been surpassed.
It's a shame really, because they have all been about the marketig of the "Ferrari and F1 experience", if they wanted to build a Bugatti beater in all aspects, they could.
But, it's uncalled for, in having two cars for tests, or knowing what track you are going to test at, just to tune it for that track, or not allowing a auto journo to test his friend's Ferrari...

They were doing that back when the F50 came out, and Car and Driver was calling up people, and the factory told them that if they let the mag test their car, they'd lose out on several "perks".
Finally, they got ahold of I believe Don Panoz, who had one of the first F50s (and a XJ15), and come to find out, it's top speed was less than the F40.

It was actually Andy Evens who was racing the 333Sp's for Ferrari at the time. He was literally the only outright owner of an F-50 back then it did 194MPH not the claimed 202MPH and it was in the redline when doing it , I still have that magazine

[US MUSL]

Dude has his facts wrong on the Camaro's engine. It's not a detuned ZR1 engine, but the LSA out of the CTS-V.

Also, from what I've read in two different car magazines, the Mustang is not living up to it's 200 mph top speed claim. But, I would still like to have one.

[Skeletor]

I prefer the ZL1.

[Parker]

It was actually Andy Evens who was racing the 333Sp's for Ferrari at the time. He was literally the only outright owner of an F-50 back then it did 194MPH not the claimed 202MPH and it was in the redline when doing it , I still have that magazine

I was going from memory---dude was friends with Bill Gates. He had developed the motorized pool cleaners.

Dude has his facts wrong on the Camaro's engine. It's not a detuned ZR1 engine, but the LSA out of the CTS-V.

Also, from what I've read in two different car magazines, the Mustang is not living up to it's 200 mph top speed claim. But, I would still like to have one.

And isn't the CTS-V engine the detuned ZR-1 engine?

[The Scott]

I like the exterior of the Camaro better than the Mustang, but I like the interior of the Mustang better than the Camaro's.
As I spend more time inside driving than I do standing outside the vehicle admiring it I bought a 2011 Mustang.  The V6
is plenty for me and delivers over 30 mpg on the highway.

Both are fantastic cars.

[JBGRAY]

Its a 6.2 (376 cubes) Gen 4 LSX with a roots-style blower.  Compression is at around 9:1 on the Camaro.

The ZL1 Camaro should never have come out of the factory supercharged.  It is almost a crime considering the great all-motor LSX's out there.  Supercharging is Ford's territory, as their modular motors(outside the 5.0) are complete and utter dogshit unless you throw an ass ton of boost at them.  The Camaro should have went the 454 LSX, abeit it being quite a bit heavier as it is an iron block.

Either car would be sick to own.

[US MUSL]

The original 1969 ZL1 camaro was an all aluminum 427ci engine. I wish they would have went with the 427ci LS7 for this version, not the LSA.

The CTS-V LSA engine is similar tho the ZR1's LS9. LSA uses a hyper not forged piston which will hurt with engine mods, also has a smaller supercharger. I guess some might call that detuned.

[avxo]

I would pick the Mustang , I've owned 3 of them and love em more horsepower than an Enzo 

While that is certainly impressive, horsepower isn't everything. I much prefer a car that can turn, rather than one that has more horsepower than a King's Royal Stables.

Neither of those cars corner very well. The Corvette is a different story.

[Parker]

The original 1969 ZL1 camaro was an all aluminum 427ci engine. I wish they would have went with the 427ci LS7 for this version, not the LSA.

The CTS-V LSA engine is similar tho the ZR1's LS9. LSA uses a hyper not forged piston which will hurt with engine mods, also has a smaller supercharger. I guess some might call that detuned.

Thanks for the clarification...

[NarcissisticDeity]

While that is certainly impressive, horsepower isn't everything. I much prefer a car that can turn, rather than one that has more horsepower than a King's Royal Stables.

Neither of those cars corner very well. The Corvette is a different story.

I disagree about neither car turning well , the ZL1 Camaro did a 7:41.27 at the Nurburgring that's faster than Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV , Audi R8 V10 , and the Pagani Zonda S and comes close to some other really great cars

Not sure about a lap time for the Mustang however Ford knows it's fan base for the Mustang very well and isn't catering to the same people who purchasing a BMW M3 , the buyers of Mustangs want what they want , big HP V8 live rear axle manual transmission , recall the Ford Probe? Ford wanted to make that the ' new ' Mustang until the UAW threatened to stop production and the Ford loyalists went haywire , recall the IDS Cobra for 1999? that failed , Ford knows what it's buyers want for a Mustang and that's who they are marketing to.

[avxo]

I disagree about neither car turning well , the ZL1 Camaro did a 7:41.27 at the Nurburgring that's faster than Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV , Audi R8 V10 , and the Pagani Zonda S and comes close to some other really great cars.

I wasn't aware of this; very impressive! I conditionally withdraw my statement, but with the proviso that I drove the Camaro SS and if that's anything to go by setup & handling wise, I find that  7:41 number very hard to believe.

Not sure about a lap time for the Mustang however Ford knows it's fan base for the Mustang very well and isn't catering to the same people who purchasing a BMW M3 , the buyers of Mustangs want what they want , big HP V8 live rear axle manual transmission , recall the Ford Probe? Ford wanted to make that the ' new ' Mustang until the UAW threatened to stop production and the Ford loyalists went haywire , recall the IDS Cobra for 1999? that failed , Ford knows what it's buyers want for a Mustang and that's who they are marketing to.

No doubt. But you will notice that in my post I didn't make any comments about whether Ford should have built a Lotus Elise and branded it a Mustang; Ford can certainly cater to the large number of people who want classic American muscle - and I think they're doing a pretty good job with the "new" Mustang (as opposed to the donkey-crap the put out in the '80s and '90s). But that kind of car is really not my thing which is why I wrote that I prefer a car a turns.

[Parker]

I disagree about neither car turning well , the ZL1 Camaro did a 7:41.27 at the Nurburgring that's faster than Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV , Audi R8 V10 , and the Pagani Zonda S and comes close to some other really great cars

Not sure about a lap time for the Mustang however Ford knows it's fan base for the Mustang very well and isn't catering to the same people who purchasing a BMW M3 , the buyers of Mustangs want what they want , big HP V8 live rear axle manual transmission , recall the Ford Probe? Ford wanted to make that the ' new ' Mustang until the UAW threatened to stop production and the Ford loyalists went haywire , recall the IDS Cobra for 1999? that failed , Ford knows what it's buyers want for a Mustang and that's who they are marketing to.

Unfortunately, Ford will be redesigning the Mustang for the world and Gen Y market---which means more tech and IRS, they may keep the LRA as an option...I think this is good, I have said before that if the Mustang was developed in Germany it would be beating the M3 (no special edition Mustangs like the Boss, just a off the showroom floor Mustang GT), the Mustang has the ability to be a true world beater. Also this chassis can be one that can spin off Lincoln models as well.

[US MUSL]

^^^ The redesign makes me a little nervous about the new Mustand. IMHO, Ford hit it out of the ballpark with the current Cobra.

The previous generation "Terminator" Cobra had an IRS and many owners blew it out when they started pumping up the horsepower. I think Ford was listing to it's consumer base on what they wanted with the LRA. Maybe Ford can develope an IRS for the next generation Cobra that will be bulletproof, and satisfy its buyer's needs for more and more HP.

The new cobra's engine is also built to support more power than it's stock ~650 hp, guess we will see with the ZL1 and it's weaker than forged pistons. I'm sure there are owners of each that will pushing the limits of their engines.

[Shockwave]

I wasn't aware of this; very impressive! I conditionally withdraw my statement, but with the proviso that I drove the Camaro SS and if that's anything to go by setup & handling wise, I find that  7:41 number very hard to believe.


No doubt. But you will notice that in my post I didn't make any comments about whether Ford should have built a Lotus Elise and branded it a Mustang; Ford can certainly cater to the large number of people who want classic American muscle - and I think they're doing a pretty good job with the "new" Mustang (as opposed to the donkey-crap the put out in the '80s and '90s). But that kind of car is really not my thing which is why I wrote that I prefer a car a turns.

Pretty sure the ZL1 has totally different suspension parts than the SS. I could be wrong though.
Either way, the Camaro is a sled, weighing in at nearly 4000 lbs. Its a big heavy car.

[_bruce_]

Lovely.

[US MUSL]

Curb weight.
ZL1 4118 lbs
GT500 3882 lbs

[The_Punisher]

Reviewed by a European (Chris Harris) in NY:

[/youtube]

hahahaha....Chris Harris is funny......two great american musclecar Icons.....you're either a fan of Chevrolet or Ford......but I'm a Pony fanatic and this Snake has enough venom to suffocate that chevy

[The_Punisher]

Unfortunately, Ford will be redesigning the Mustang for the world and Gen Y market---which means more tech and IRS, they may keep the LRA as an option...I think this is good, I have said before that if the Mustang was developed in Germany it would be beating the M3 (no special edition Mustangs like the Boss, just a off the showroom floor Mustang GT), the Mustang has the ability to be a true world beater. Also this chassis can be one that can spin off Lincoln models as well.

it's been five yrs since the last Mustang design....I just hope Ford come out with a killer design....they might make the next pony a little shorter with no rearside window this time......as long as they keep the signature "Growls", I'm fine

[gym**rat]

Mustang for sure tribute to carol shelby

X2