test cyp for life?

[cdog]

I went to a doc finally after feeling a little bummed.  I am early 30s but showed very low test level (278).  The doc put me on 200 mg test cyp and in another 2 weeks 300 mg.  After about a month my test level was about 750.

Since that time, the doc gave me a prescription for my own gear and  I have been taking 300 mg (1.5 cc) test cyp every 10 days and have to tell you.... FEELING GOOD! 

I later went to a urologist and he told me that anyone can test low once or twice and I should consider gettting off for about 3 months and get re tested.... I said NO way.  Truth is I am really enjoying the gains.  I am working out 6 times a week and starting to get compliments even after eating anything and everything I want.. gotta love it.

The funny thing is, my original doctor (actually female nurse practitioner) told me test cypionate was not an anabolic steroid and I would not really benefit more than normal by working out and I would be on it for the rest of my life.  My results are telling me otherwise.  In addition, the pharmacist looked me in the eyes and said... "you are on the juice."

So here is my question I would really appreciate some advice...

1.  Am I truly on "the juice"?
2.  If so, what else should I do to keep from screwing up?
3.  Should I shut up and ride the gravy train as long as I can?

Thanks in advance for the tips.

 

[muscle19]

its all up to what ur doc says bro, but to be honest test cyp is an anabolic steroid so technically speaking, u r on juice! (gotta love it right?  ) from what i learned it is always good to let ur body take a break but u r on a reasonably low dose but if u feel the need to stay on for life and if thats what ur doc told u then go for, im 20 and i wish i could stay on for life ( prblems might pop up for me if i do that)


muscle

[ironfreak]

Yes sir… That is absolutely the “juice”.. Now 300mg every 10 days is a very low dose.

I would look out for estrogen related side effects.

That dose will shut you down over time so if you intend to father any children you should talk with your MD.

[cdog]

Thanks for the quick replies.  I have to admit that I am a little pumped up about the whole thing.  I had the snippage done when I was 26 and I have kids already so children are not an issue.

What dose should I consider and should I be taking anything else to get the full effect?

[ironfreak]

Thanks for the quick replies.  I have to admit that I am a little pumped up about the whole thing.  I had the snippage done when I was 26 and I have kids already so children are not an issue.

What dose should I consider and should I be taking anything else to get the full effect?

If you are interested in a cycle…. I would use 500-600mg per week for 10 weeks. You can add dbol 25-40mg per day for the first 4-6 weeks if you like.

I like Aromasin or Adex while on. I run Nolva @ 10mg per day to ward off gyno.

PCT Nolva and Clomid, Standard protocol.

As far as your snip, it can cause lower T Levels… I am having a reversal on the 5th of January. I have to stay of the sauce until March!! That sucks! What really sucks is it cost me $500.00 to get snipped and $8000.00 to have the reversal!!

[Blake]

The nurse practitioner said testosterone isn't an anabolic steroid, huh?  First, I'd stear clear of anything she has to say regarding your treatment in the future.  It's blatantly obvious she hasn't the slightest understanding of anything related to AAS.

Is the testosterone cypionate the only thing you're taking?  Did your doctor mention anything about taking an aromatase inhibitor along with the testosterone to control estrogen?  Obviously your E2 levels (Estradiol) need to be checked regularly.  You should also be aware of estrogen related side effects.

Frankly, if you had low testosterone to begin with, it's pointless to cycle off, unless you develop side effects that would warrant stopping the treatment.  Your natural production certainly won't be any better after having been on TRT for months!!

In terms of dosages, remember that this is TRT and not your typical "bodybuilder" AAS cycle.  Unless they're an idiot, your doctor is not going to prescribe a dosage that will elevate your testosterone to supraphysiological levels.  The point of a good HRT/TRT program is to elevate your levels to the high normal range and keep them there.

[VallhallaOrBust2]

Every 10 days is a little long between doses.  HRT should be dosed weekly for stable results.  You might want to try half-doses every 5 days and see if you don't feel better on a more consistent basis.  HCG twice weekly (250-300 IU) or even daily (100IU) is nice addition as well.  As Blake mentioned, keeping estrogen under control is critical as well.

Check out:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

[cdog]

Yes Blake, I am only taking test cyp 300 mg per 10 days.   Can I get an aromatase inhibitor at any local gnc?

After reading the posts, it appears that many people actually recommend your first cycle be test only so I guess  I am not far off but It seems everyone always mentions dbol also.  Is this the same advertised in muscle mags?

And ironfreak:  I have already been on for about 10 weeks at 300 mg/10 days.  Should I now jump up to 500 mg/week?

[ironfreak]

No my man…. GNC will not help you at all.
You can find a good source or... There are tons of online pharmacies that you can order from or... you can get “research” chems.. I like AG-guys if I am going to use a liquid.

Dbol in the mags is crap… Pro-hormone JUNK.  For dbol I use Naps 5mg good stuff!!

And yes… Jump on up when you have your anti E’s lined up.

[cdog]

As Blake mentioned, keeping estrogen under control is critical as well.

Check out:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Great forum link... thanks!  Also, any suggestions for estrogen control. 

[Blake]

Yes Blake, I am only taking test cyp 300 mg per 10 days.   Can I get an aromatase inhibitor at any local gnc?

After reading the posts, it appears that many people actually recommend your first cycle be test only so I guess  I am not far off but It seems everyone always mentions dbol also.  Is this the same advertised in muscle mags?

And ironfreak:  I have already been on for about 10 weeks at 300 mg/10 days.  Should I now jump up to 500 mg/week?

Your doctor could write a script for an aromatase inhibitor.  It's surprising your doctor would not mention taking such a thing.  When you had your initial bloodwork/consultation, did anyone mention anything to you about estrogen??

If you're looking at taking d-bol, then you're on your own.  Again, I don't think your doctor will be prescribing that to you.  Also remember that in order to continue the program you have to get regular blood tests every few months or so.  I'd think over what the adding in of other compounds at your own discretion might do to your lab results that could affect the continuation of the program.  They don't HAVE to prescribe you anything.

[cdog]

Your doctor could write a script for an aromatase inhibitor.  It's surprising your doctor would not mention taking such a thing.  When you had your initial bloodwork/consultation, did anyone mention anything to you about estrogen??

No.  My doctor did not mention anything about estrogen.  Please tell me what to do and I will surely take it to heart.  I want to get big and strong; however, I know that there is a proper way to do it.

As for dbol... dont know anything about it.  I am simply wondering if I should be doing anything else in the way of supplements in order to max gains.  I am currently eating like a horse and taking two muscle milk protein shakes a day also.

[freakfestMD]

As far as your snip, it can cause lower T Levels…

A vascectomy only blocks sperm transport.  It has no effect on test levels whatsoever.

[DIVISION]

1.  Am I truly on "the juice"?
2.  If so, what else should I do to keep from screwing up?
3.  Should I shut up and ride the gravy train as long as I can?

Thanks in advance for the tips.

1.  You are TRULY on "the juice".
2.  You should train religiously, eat clean and get regular bloodwork to make sure your Blood pressure and lipids are in the clear.
3.  By all means, nugga, RIDE THAT GRAVY TRAIN!   

Now.......

I have a few questions of my own.

1.  Why did you decide upon 300mg test cypionate e10d?  How did you come up with this dosing schedule?  Why not every week?
2.  Why did you see a urologist for this?  Are you sure it wasn't an endocrinologist?  I have a hard time understanding what HRT has to do with urology, unless you have a problem with erectile dysfunction.
3.  Why are you being seen by a NP instead of an M.D.?  She is wrong of course, Test Cypionate is an anabolic steroid, it's exogenous testerone you are taking in to your body thereby deeming it an AAS. 
4.  Why did the pharmacist say "You are on the juice"?  I honestly have a hard time believing that.  It's none of their business and unprofessional to say that aloud in a public place.  Plus, what pharmacist says "the juice"?  They know them as Anabolic Steroids, it's what they are taught.

SPEAK ON THIS.





DIV

[Mr.Protein]

A vascectomy only blocks sperm transport.  It has no effect on test levels whatsoever.

freakfest,
thanks for this info.  I have never heard of a vasectomy lowering Test. levels either. 

cdog, 
a regimen of 300 mgs. of 200mg./ml. Test. Cypionate every ten days is a healthy dose for HRT purposes.  No it will not produce a supraphysiological level of the hormone - its not suppose to.  Its suppose to REPLACE what was once naturally produced.  Thats why they call it REPLACEMENT therapy.

You shouldn't experience the nasty sides many experience when they do 5 times the amount you were prescribed.  Using estrogen inhibitors or blockers (nolva or femara for example) may in fact minimize gains. 

Remember the 1/2 life of the Cypionate esther is approx. 12 days - you are administering an additional dose before this.  There will be a cumulative effect on blood serum levels over time.  It is not unusual for an HRT treatment plan to call for 300 mgs. of 200mg./ml. Test. Cyp. every 2 or 3 weeks.  Not everyone who uses this drug does a gram a week along with a basket of ancillaries.

[cdog]

Thanks gang for all the feedback.

To answer Div's questions:

1.  My first T level was 238 NG/DL  so she (my nurse prac gave me a 200 mg IM).  I retested in 2 weeks and I was only at 272.  This time she gave me 300 mg test cyp IM and in 2 weeks it raised to 387.  She gave me another 300 mg and in 2 weeks I was at 487.  The last time, she gave me 300 mg in 10 days and I was at 761.  She talked about going back to 2 weeks but I really felt great so she said I could stay at 300 mg / 10 days.

2.  I went to a urologist (not endocronologist) because I wanted a second opinion and also I began to question my nurse practitioner's knowledge.  She obviously is clueless about test cyp.  I have also had a problem with ED before.  Not everytime, but I have had my moments even before I started test about 3 months ago.  I am hoping it is due to my low T count.   When I went to the MD... he said he thought I very well might be on HRT and not need it.  He wanted me to come back in 3 months after laying off but... I have not.

3.  I went to a nurse practitioner instead of a MD because when I went to the medical plaza it was for general fatigue and I was just a walkin.  She could see me so I went.  She ran some blood work and found my Total test level at 238.

4.  Our Wal-Green has a place where you can ask the pharmacist in private.  I let him see a copy of the prescription and told him what the nurse prac said about working out and he immediately disagreed.  He said this is what athletes call "the juice".

The MD also confirmed that the vasectomy had nothing to do with my low T level.  He then tickled my sac and told me that he was almost certain testicular cancer was not a factor and that I was probably just normal and did not need to be on cyp.

On the bright side, I have had several of my friends and family telling me that I was getting big.  I gotta tell you it is a little flattering that they noticed without me saying anything.   On the negative side,  I am getting acne on my chest and my upper chest gets sweaty hot flashes.

BTW,  What do you mean by "eating clean".  Some of the guys at the gym said I should eat anything and everything so I have been.  I am 5' 9" and I have gone from 182 lbs to 194 lbs in 3 months.   Maybe just psychological but I went from sweating 135 lbs on bench to 225 lbs 5 times and feeling good after.

I want to go up on test cyp/ week but I am really worried about the estrogen thing... Can someone give me some tips?

[DIVISION]

The MD then tickled my sac

^

I am getting acne on my chest and my upper chest gets sweaty hot flashes.

I understand the acne, but "sweaty hot flashes"?   

BTW,  What do you mean by "eating clean".

Eating clean means cutting all the shit out of your diet......no fastfood, eating clean meats, complex carbs, whey isolate protein, vegetables......solid food.

I want to go up on test cyp/ week but I am really worried about the estrogen thing... Can someone give me some tips?

I think you need to determine whether you want to ramp up to 500MG Test per week....and if so, you should stack that with at least one other anabolic, preferably Deca or Winstrol.

Do you want to jump in the pool or just use Test by itself?

You might want to acquire an aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex.  See if your NP will prescribe you that, the dosage is 1MG ed or eod.




DIV

[cdog]

Can I be in the pool with Test by itself?

I dont have access to anything else... not to mention I am still learning.

[DIVISION]

Can I be in the pool with Test by itself?

I dont have access to anything else... not to mention I am still learning.

We'll you can, but it's too late I'm afraid.......you've already dipped in the pool by taking Test essentially turning you over to the "Dark Side" of the force.

Once you made the conscious decision to inject the Cypionate you crossed over and there's no going back, cdog.

This "dog" has been let off the chain......

The days of puppychow and chewtoys are over.




DIV

[Arnold jr]

Can I be in the pool with Test by itself?

I dont have access to anything else... not to mention I am still learning.

Sure you can, test alone is "in the pool" but look at it this way, your getting ready to go for a swim, but at this point your only in the water knee deep.  But I agree, you need to learn all you can before you jump right in... you got to learn to swim or you may drown.  Good luck!

[DIVISION]

Sure you can, test alone is "in the pool" but look at it this way, your getting ready to go for a swim, but at this point your only in the water knee deep.  But I agree, you need to learn all you can before you jump right in... you got to learn to swim or you may drown.  Good luck!

Agreed.

I just think he should probably have researched before ever touching the Cypionate.

As is he's walking around in the shallow end treading water......

He probably should have stayed on the deck and read some before dipping his toes in the pool.




DIV

[Disgusted]

Technically your Dr is correct, testosterone is a male sex hormone and anabolic hormones are synthetic derivatives of testosterone. So again, in the pure sense of the definition she is right. Now, my advise would be to keep your mouth shut about lifting and gaining muscle the next time you are at the office. If she comments on it then just play it down. You have a good thing going so be careful.

Personally I would not stay on all year. I would cycle it 2 or 3 times per year at a higher dose. So just save it when you are off so you can do the higher dose cycle. Also, you need to do some post therapy when you come off.

[mem]

Good advice - about playing it down is good . . .

[cdog]

Well Gang...

Around Christmas time I posted this topic.  Thanks again for all of the input.

I have been on 300 mg per week now for over a month now and my testosterone test this month showed that that I was on the high side of normal at 890 or so. 

My nurse practitioner wants me to test again in 3 months and my prescription is still on go.

I have gained 20 lbs since beginning test cyp around Nov.  Although I have had tons of positive comments from people telling me that I am "looking big" .... truth is... I am feeling rather bulky.  I have been eating like a horse and I am now ready to "cut" down and clean up.... Any advice out there?

For starters I was thinking:

Eat Clean
Drink a ton of water
Cardio 20-30 min 3 or 4 days per week
Keep lifting but at more reps and lighter weight.

Also,  I am still having acne issues on my chest.  Not face... just chest.  Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[cdog]

One more thing...


Any one out there ever had any neck aches and or ham pulls from training hard.  I don't remember doing anything in particular that hurt me but I woke up a few weeks ago and I have had this neck ache when I turn my head to the left or right for 2 weeks... not to mention a ham pull for 3 weeks.  A chiropractor suggested that I am overtraining my arms and chest and not my neck.... does that hold water?

Looking good, getting strong... but walking like an old man?