New To it

[dawgteam]

I am getting ready for my 2nd cycle.  I am 38, 220 lbs.  My first cycle was deca, proviron, winstrol, with clomid at the end.  What this a good cycle and if not, what should I try?

[Blake]

Where's the testosterone?

Whatever you choose to run next, use testosterone as a base.

BTW, what sort of results did you get from your first cycle?

[dawgteam]

The results were OK.  I did gain about 15 lbs of which 10 I have retained.  If I use test (sust), what should that cycle look like?

[muscle19]

hey bro, glad to hear u r going to use test, li ke said above, always use test.

now if this is ur 2nd cycle i would do this:

sust-750mg/wk 1-12 (shot mon, wed, fri)
deca or eq-600mg/wk 1-10 (shot with the sust)
winny-50mg ed 6-12
hcg-500ius every 5 days 1-12

use the deca if u r going for more of a bulking cycle and eq if u want a clean lean mass gains. the winny will help harden up at the end with additional lbs.
For pct, i would use a combination of clomid and nolva starting 11/2-2 wks after last test shot:

nolva-60mg day 1                               clomid-100mg/day 1
days 2-28 use 20mg/day                    days 2-28 use 50mg/day

hope this helps and if anyone else has any changes feel free to chime in.
good luck bro


muscle       

[Arnold jr]

hey bro, glad to hear u r going to use test, li ke said above, always use test.

now if this is ur 2nd cycle i would do this:

sust-750mg/wk 1-12 (shot mon, wed, fri)
deca or eq-600mg/wk 1-10 (shot with the sust)
winny-50mg ed 6-12
hcg-500ius every 5 days 1-12

use the deca if u r going for more of a bulking cycle and eq if u want a clean lean mass gains. the winny will help harden up at the end with additional lbs.
For pct, i would use a combination of clomid and nolva starting 11/2-2 wks after last test shot:

nolva-60mg day 1                               clomid-100mg/day 1
days 2-28 use 20mg/day                    days 2-28 use 50mg/day

hope this helps and if anyone else has any changes feel free to chime in.
good luck bro


muscle       

Agreed.

Looks like a solid cycle!

[dawgteam]

Thanks all for the cycle.  I will let you know how it goes.  I plan to start it early January.

[dawgteam]

Hey one last question.  Why the hcg during the cycle.  I thought this was used pct.

[DIVISION]

DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

d-bol  50mg/wk 1-4
sust 500mg/wk 1-12
deca 300/wk 1-12
winny-50mg ed 11-16
test prop 100mg/ed 13-16
hcg-500ius e5d 1-16
arimidex 1mg eod   1-16




DIV

[bravo]

DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

d-bol  50mg/wk 1-4
sust 500mg/wk 1-12
deca 300/wk 1-12
winny-50mg ed 11-16
test prop 100mg/ed 13-16
hcg-500ius e5d 1-16
arimidex 1mg eod   1-16

I'm liking the DIV changes alot....well balanced and proportioned in and out the door.




DIV

[Luv2Hurt]

Yeah that should see some good results, just maybe overlap the tests for a week or so, to assure no dips in blood levels.

[dawgteam]

Would I still need the nolva and the clomid that muscle19 suggested?

[DIVISION]

Would I still need the nolva and the clomid that muscle19 suggested?

YES.

I didn't touch the PCT.

Just the cycle.




DIV

[muscle19]

either one will work, good stuff guys!


muscle

[IFBBwannaB]

I personly wouldnt touch Deca with a pogo stick.


Further more when using long esters I would reccomend dropign them 1month before you end the cycle and switching to short esters.
By taking last shot of Deca or Sust at 12 week and a few days later starting PCT you do nothing.
Your body will have elavated levels of androgens for quite a while thus making your PCT worthless.

And stacking Clomid and Nolva? Err...why?

And again with the 500IU HCG /5days....sigh....

[Arnold jr]

I personly wouldnt touch Deca with a pogo stick.


Further more when using long esters I would reccomend dropign them 1month before you end the cycle and switching to short esters.
By taking last shot of Deca or Sust at 12 week and a few days later starting PCT you do nothing.
Your body will have elavated levels of androgens for quite a while thus making your PCT worthless.

And stacking Clomid and Nolva? Err...why?

And again with the 500IU HCG /5days....sigh....

First off, what's wrong with deca? This is one of the most basic and golden items we have to choose from.

Second, this cycle will work fine... he just needs to start pct 3wk after last injection.

Finlay, what's wrong with hcg?

[DIVISION]

I personly wouldnt touch Deca with a pogo stick.
Further more when using long esters I would reccomend dropign them 1month before you end the cycle and switching to short esters.
By taking last shot of Deca or Sust at 12 week and a few days later starting PCT you do nothing.
Your body will have elavated levels of androgens for quite a while thus making your PCT worthless.

If you paid attention to the cycle changes I posted, you would see that I stopped his Deca and Sustanon 4 weeks out and replaced them with Test Prop. and Winstrol.  Prop will clear fast and Winstrol does not bind to the androgen receptor like other AAS do, so it is in and out as well.  Do you read the posts before you blindly make comments?

I have been preaching about dropping the long-acting esters about 4 weeks out for awhile now.

As far as his PCT, I didn't change that.  I'm here to give recommendations, but sometimes people need to read for themselves......

I won't do everything.

First off, what's wrong with deca? This is one of the most basic and golden items we have to choose from.

Second, this cycle will work fine... he just needs to start pct 3wk after last injection.

Finlay, what's wrong with hcg?

Nothing is wrong with the cycle, Arnold jr.

I think "IFBBwannaB" just has an attitude problem or is on some clomid......

I'm guessing he thinks Deca is a bad choice because it's so supressive.  That being said, you can work around that by using HCG for the duration of the cycle.

Nothing is wrong with HCG, he's just whining because I recommend 500IU e5d instead of EOD.



DIV

[IFBBwannaB]

Stacking Clomid and Nolva is useless since they both work the same,even your cherised Dr says the same.

Deca....what is good about it?
Water retantion which wont go away with simple Nolva.
Suppressive like mad,and HCG wont help that too much Progestron can screw up  with your hormonal axis really bad.
Stays in the body long after its ester is claimed,and supress you for quite a while.

HCG,well if you wanna destroy your tests  insted of preserving them then large amnouts on long intervals sounds about right.

I see NO reason to use it.

[DIVISION]

Deca....what is good about it?

One of the top 3 pure anabolics on the market today.

Blocks cortisol receptors in the joint tissue effectively negating wear and tear.

Synergistic when stacked with other anabolics in the same cycle, will promote satellite cell growth when used long enough (12+ weeks).





DIV

[Luv2Hurt]

Deca is a great anabolic, sidey?.....yes.  just gotta know how to run it.  Personally I feel deca needs to be run on long cycles, 20 weeks minimum.  16 on the the deca and at least 4 weeks getting that sh*t out.

When I was much less informed and experienced I finished a cycle on JUST deca!  OMG that had me f*cked up for over 5 months.....so bad I jumped back on a proper cycle and did a proper PCT and things got better real fast.

[DIVISION]

Deca is a great anabolic, sidey?.....yes.  just gotta know how to run it.  Personally I feel deca needs to be run on long cycles, 20 weeks minimum.  16 on the the deca and at least 4 weeks getting that sh*t out.

When I was much less informed and experienced I finished a cycle on JUST deca!  OMG that had me f*cked up for over 5 months.....so bad I jumped back on a proper cycle and did a proper PCT and things got better real fast.

Deca is the type of "Ride" you had better be prepared for before you start, because there's no getting off midstream....




DIV

[HickoryStick]

why?

[DIVISION]

why?

It's already been outlined..........read the forum.





DIV

[IFBBwannaB]

There are quite a few more then 3 "pure" anabolic steroids out there.They may be less aviable and more expensive but not to the extant I would resort to Deca usage.

Synergistic ...which AAS arent to that extant that you would put that as such an advantage? You have any based proofs for this?


You really dont wanna know how bad is high prolactin and progesteron levels.
Unless you use just about all the substances there are I see no reason to use Deca.It will bloat you,supress you and wont do much that any other substance will.

[Arnold jr]

There are quite a few more then 3 "pure" anabolic steroids out there.They may be less aviable and more expensive but not to the extant I would resort to Deca usage.

Synergistic ...which AAS arent to that extant that you would put that as such an advantage? You have any based proofs for this?


You really dont wanna know how bad is high prolactin and progesteron levels.
Unless you use just about all the substances there are I see no reason to use Deca.It will bloat you,supress you and wont do much that any other substance will.

Sorry bro, but your dead wrong hear

You got me wondering though... did you once run a cycle of deca with no test, and is it this bad experience perhaps that has left you feeling the way you do about deca? Or are you just basing your claims on opinion, not experience or facts.

Your right, deca can bring about a lot of sides, but so can a lot of the stuff... but even so, with proper precautions taken most if not all of these sides can be minimized and even avoided in most cases.

Last off, I think you are demonizing deca when a whole lot of other substances are much more dangerous... especially for an ill-advised user.

[IFBBwannaB]

Hmm....well Mr.Jr since you talk facts please show me some.
I base my opinions from personal and friends experiance and studies.I need to look those studies up now which take a while.

But please feel free to post all the facts you got that support Deca as such an amazing substance.


BTW I didnt mentioned any other substance so please dont tell me why I decide Deca is lame.