IFBB Pro -Milos Sarcev..and his 'insulin protocols'

[OTHstrong]

Bullshit. Milos advocates staying close to contest shape all year round. That rather modest
insulin protocol will not ruin you if done the way he says. Sure the physique may take on a
little less desirable look over time, but nothing like a crazy ass bulk and 100-300iu/day insulin
use in the off-season which will fuck you up. Did Milos ever have a huge belly?

What fucks you up is overeating.

Unless Milos advocated something completely different from what he said on forums, where's the extremism? Very light steroid use and lowish insulin dosages during workouts only... where does the kidney death come from?

Milos fucked up his body with Synthol, the biggest mistake he did. He hardly pioneered that. And he fucked up his mind with recreational drugs... again, hardly his invention. That's something you were involved with too Coach, long before Milos.

It's as simple as this: 20iu Humalog before every workout. Carbs and aminos in blood. The end.

booooooooom,, Van bringing the truth to this caro gimick bitch who envies bodybuilders cause he could not hack it as one.

[OTHstrong]

There is no such thing as aesthetics anymore solely because of insulin usage at damn near any dose. I will say though, that they are getting better and realizing that heavy insulin use will not only fuck your systems, in some cases for life, but they are starting to come in a bit lighter and bellies are coming down. In any case, insulin isn't necessary and counter productive in the long run.

Milos hurt more people in the long run than he helped. Yes, he fucked up bodybuilding.

This is the most naive post of all time, ALL TIME, because in order for you to make a statement like this you have to believe guys claiming low dose and that simply does not occur cause bodybuilders are idiots, they take everything big, of the guys I know who take very little slin, they look amazing and nothing wrong with their aesthetics at all.

Your physique goes to shit at 300 iu daily and unfortunately most bodybuilder do this.

Don't be so naive coach. If anyone is bold enough to admit slin use believe me they are abusing and claiming mild use and you are falling for it. The one who use mildly probably would never admit it at all.

[ESFitness]

flu like symptoms experienced whilst undergoing Milos' insulin protocol regime.  Symptoms would include profuse sweating, head aches, tightness in joints, fever etc etc.

that's what happens the first month you start running 3g of test + other stuff. It goes away.

a lot of guys don't use enough AAS with slin, and end up fat and can't figure out why. (fear of hypo also keeps them eating too much damn food at the wrong times as well).

The guys who say 'insulin in the devil & it ruined bodybuilding' usually don't have experience with it. They're just on the outside looking in. They're just repeating shit they heard someone else say, without really understanding it.

[ESFitness]

This is the most naive post of all time, ALL TIME, because in order for you to make a statement like this you have to believe guys claiming low dose and that simply does not occur cause bodybuilders are idiots, they take everything big, of the guys I know who take very little slin, they look amazing and nothing wrong with their aesthetics at all.

Your physique goes to shit at 300 iu daily and unfortunately most bodybuilder do this.

Don't be so naive coach. If anyone is bold enough to admit slin use believe me they are abusing and claiming mild use and you are falling for it. The one who use mildly probably would never admit it at all.

I don't know of anybody using 300iu slin per day.... much less 'most' bber's doing it.

[Coach is Back!]

This is the most naive post of all time, ALL TIME, because in order for you to make a statement like this you have to believe guys claiming low dose and that simply does not occur cause bodybuilders are idiots, they take everything big, of the guys I know who take very little slin, they look amazing and nothing wrong with their aesthetics at all.

Your physique goes to shit at 300 iu daily and unfortunately most bodybuilder do this.

Don't be so naive coach. If anyone is bold enough to admit slin use believe me they are abusing and claiming mild use and you are falling for it. The one who use mildly probably would never admit it at all.

Compared to what decade?

[ESFitness]

Bullshit. Milos advocates staying close to contest shape all year round. That rather modest
insulin protocol will not ruin you if done the way he says. Sure the physique may take on a
little less desirable look over time, but nothing like a crazy ass bulk and 100-300iu/day insulin
use in the off-season which will fuck you up. Did Milos ever have a huge belly?

What fucks you up is overeating.

Unless Milos advocated something completely different from what he said on forums, where's the extremism? Very light steroid use and lowish insulin dosages during workouts only... where does the kidney death come from?

Milos fucked up his body with Synthol, the biggest mistake he did. He hardly pioneered that. And he fucked up his mind with recreational drugs... again, hardly his invention. That's something you were involved with too Coach, long before Milos.

It's as simple as this: 20iu Humalog before every workout. Carbs and aminos in blood. The end.

'very light steroid use' is not something Milo's was familiar with AT ALL. Milos was the pro-version of john o'reagan in terms of doses.

[OTHstrong]

I don't know of anybody using 300iu slin per day.... much less 'most' bber's doing it.

TYPO, MY BAD

30IU 

[ESFitness]

Milos is said to have pioneered the use of insulin in the sport..The protocol was mind blowing: 10iu GH  and 12iu of Novalog before working out and then followed by 120mcg igf at the end of work out.

I remember Luke saying how he mixed up the doses hence kidney failure and ultimately death

that just makes you sound like a little middle school girl spreading gossip.

"hence death"? pathetic. I don't know where to begin. So I Won't.

"mind blowing"? are you 12 years old? you realize there are ppl on this board who actually have experience with what you're talking about.. we're not all children like yourself. 10gh, 12 log, and 120igf? big fucking deal. nothing mind blowing about that.

you're starved for male attention kid. did your real father leave your mother when you were little? and did your mom have an endless string of "daddy's" for you who never really loved you or paid attention to you? is that why you're posting this crap? Is this your 'adult' version of throwing a temper tantrum or acting out for attention?

[ESFitness]

TYPO, MY BAD

30IU 

ahh... that's  better. lol.

30iu won't have too bad effect on most guys.

I used insulin pretty heavily years ago. Milo's was the only guy who'd tell me how to do it (since I was a youngster at the time #1.. and #2, nobody else really even knew. lol).

Mostly R. I hated Log.. made me sooooo damn sleepy after I ate. Used the longers like N, L, 70/30 ect.. as well. I preferred R. I was more predictable.

15iu before breakfast w/100g pasta breakfast. 5-7iu a few hours later with40-50carb. 10-15iu post workout w/100g potatoes or pasta. 12-15iu before bed with 150-200g carbs from waffles with sugar, cinnamon, and syrup. usually 45-65ish iu/day.

did that for years. It keeps you hungry all day, BUT it also makes you favor carbs or protein when you're hungry... so i'm more concerned with eating a potato than I was a piece of chicken.

I didn't use it for quite a few years... maybe 5-6. Then I thought i'd give it a go again, and my body just didn't respond to it the same way. felt I was actually LOSING weight on it. and I looked flatter and smoother. So i'll stick with igf1.

The hunger is the only thing I 'miss' from insulin.

[OTHstrong]

ahh... that's  better. lol.

30iu won't have too bad effect on most guys.

I used insulin pretty heavily years ago. Milo's was the only guy who'd tell me how to do it (since I was a youngster at the time #1.. and #2, nobody else really even knew. lol).

Mostly R. I hated Log.. made me sooooo damn sleepy after I ate. Used the longers like N, L, 70/30 ect.. as well. I preferred R. I was more predictable.

15iu before breakfast w/100g pasta breakfast. 5-7iu a few hours later with40-50carb. 10-15iu post workout w/100g potatoes or pasta. 12-15iu before bed with 150-200g carbs from waffles with sugar, cinnamon, and syrup. usually 45-65ish iu/day.

did that for years. It keeps you hungry all day, BUT it also makes you favor carbs or protein when you're hungry... so i'm more concerned with eating a potato than I was a piece of chicken.

I didn't use it for quite a few years... maybe 5-6. Then I thought i'd give it a go again, and my body just didn't respond to it the same way. felt I was actually LOSING weight on it. and I looked flatter and smoother. So i'll stick with igf1.

The hunger is the only thing I 'miss' from insulin.

HOLY FUCK, 300, LMAO, imagine that lol.

No, I meant 30 and lower being conservative use and anything over 30 will have the side effects that we see with the slin bodies, I have seen as high as 100iu per day.

But coach indicating even low dose compromises the aesthetics and that is simply BULLSHIT, 10iu post workout would never alter aesthetics. That ones like Branch, English and Jose are slin abuser 100iu per day and up.

[OTHstrong]

Compared to what decade?

Compared to their own aesthetics before they touched slin

[Van_Bilderass]

'very light steroid use' is not something Milo's was familiar with AT ALL. Milos was the pro-version of john o'reagan in terms of doses.

Did you talk to Milos and what kind of dosages did he recommend to you? I'm not talking about what he experimented with, I'm sure he tried a bunch of shit.

What he publically talked about, and what he recommended to some I know was light.

Here's  an example cycle Milos put on this forum. Is this BS IYO? These dosages ain't shit.

I mentioned somewhere here on getbig what the true IFBB Olympia competitor cycle looks like - and most of the people attacked not just me, my parents, grandparents...and my ancestors but my whole Religion, Nationality...and...OK.. .I am running out of ideas...

Anyway, what I said than (hopefully someone could find it?) and I will say now:

Smart pros use dramatically LESS than what most of the people believe...
Some of the guys I prepare actually complained on amounts I have given here on board - as WAY TOO MUCH...and I do know few guys who hardly touch those amounts...

But, if you want to accomplish THE BEST EFFECT: Highest anabolism, lowest catabolism, appropriate androgenic activity and possible fat loss while trying to maintain (or gain?) muscle size and considering correct usage and certainly NOT abusing any drugs...keeping eye on possible side effects vs benefits...than my 12 week Olympia cycle would be:

4 weeks:
Sustanon 250 - (500-750 mg/week)
Deca (500 mg/week)
Dboll (3X20mg/day)
Trenbolon (200 mg/week)
Arimidex - 1mg /day

5-8 week:
Test Prop 50-100 mg/day alternate with Test Heptylate 50-100 mg day (500-700 mg/week)
Trenbolon Acetate (200 mg/week)
Primobolan (500 mg/week)
Anadrol (3 x 25 mg/day)
Winstrol tabs (3 x 15 mg/day)
Arimidex - 1 mg /day alternate with 2.5 mg Femara every other day

9-12 week:

Test prop 100 mg/day alternate with 50-100 mg Test Suspension /day - every other day (500-700 mg /week)
Masterone 100 mg every other day - stop 10 days out
Winstrol injectable 50 mg /day (week 9) 100 mg/day (week 10) and 150 mg/day (week 11) - stop 5 days out
Oxandrolone (3 x 10-20 mg/day)
Halotestin (3 x 10 mg/day) / Or Andriol (40 mg Test Undecanoate x 3 /day) - either or?
Arimidex 2 mg (possible 3?) /day

With this cycle possible additions:

Clenbuterol, T3 (cytomel) T4 (Synthroid) GH, insulin, Cytadren....IF needed or available...but you asked for steroids - anyway...

OK?

Got to go now...

BTW, aren't you the "insulin shock" who used to post on bolex years ago? The guy who used 60iu post workout?

[Kim Jong Bob]

hurt in what way? Give us examples that are not based on interneg rumors

coach answer this please

[Van_Bilderass]

Milos hurt more people in the long run than he helped. Yes, he fucked up bodybuilding.

You mean for popularizing insulin use? It would have been used anyway. But sure, he did a lot to push it. But, if you think the abominations you see on stage are due to taking 20iu of LOG preworkout then you're wrong. That ain't shit, it's not that much different than drinking a bunch of sugar every workout like your buddy Berardi recommended.

I "fought" a lot with Milos on here, about stupid statements like you can't train too much, load on bar doesn't matter, and so on, but fair is fair. Actually, it seems like your training philosophies have a ton in common.

The gut you saw on Coleman, the gut you see on Kai and etc, is not due to some 20iu of insulin pre-workout regimen. It's due to tons of drugs and cramming your face with 10lbs of fish and pounds of carbs every day. Even Heath, whose friends claim he never touched insulin, has spread abs. If Milos ruined bb then what did these other trainers do? Chad, Hany, Oscar and etc?

[Coach is Back!]

Years ago I posted the down side of insulin use for non diabetics and they by far outweighed the the benefits. If you want to talk about "bro-science" this would be the perfect time. Using the the most powerful anabolic in your body, for something other than what it should be used for is a huge mistake. Anytime you start using a compound that literally fucks with every metabolic pathway in your body, you're asking for trouble.

[Van_Bilderass]

Years ago I posted the down side of insulin use for non diabetics and they by far outweighed the the benefits. If you want to talk about "bro-science" this would be the perfect time. Using the the most powerful anabolic in your body, for something other than what it should be used for is a huge mistake. Anytime you start using a compound that literally fucks with every metabolic pathway in your body, you're asking for trouble.

Explain it again. Maybe I missed something and I'm always eager to learn.

But, from what I think I know today, something like 10-20iu is a highly physiological dose
and if an athlete is using lots of GH, insulin can save his organs.

Do you advocate raising insulin through natural means during workout times, like Berardi does? If not, why? If you do, why?

Please no balonie like "insulin ages you"... it's far too simplistic a statement if not put in context.

[OTHstrong]

Years ago I posted the down side of insulin use for non diabetics and they by far outweighed the the benefits. If you want to talk about "bro-science" this would be the perfect time. Using the the most powerful anabolic in your body, for something other than what it should be used for is a huge mistake. Anytime you start using a compound that literally fucks with every metabolic pathway in your body, you're asking for trouble.

noted

But there are guys out there that know what they are doing bro, don't paint everyone with same brush. Now having said that you are right 9 out 10 people using slin are retards. To say everyone, is dumb though cause clearly guys like Heath and Kai would not be where they are without it.

[ESFitness]

Did you talk to Milos and what kind of dosages did he recommend to you? I'm not talking about what he experimented with, I'm sure he tried a bunch of shit.

What he publically talked about, and what he recommended to some I know was light.

Here's  an example cycle Milos put on this forum. Is this BS IYO? These dosages ain't shit.

BTW, aren't you the "insulin shock" who used to post on bolex years ago? The guy who used 60iu post workout?

what he said in person and what he said online were two different things. the 'cycles' attributed to him online were generic outlines. Simplest I can put it is 1-total mg's 3-5g/wk. 2-change your drugs every 3-4 weeks. mentioning mixing "anabolic" and "androgenic" drugs. that's where I disagreed... seeing as how 'androgenic' drugs are anabolic as well. But, if you're buying primo and var from him, it's to his benefit to advocate the pricey anabolics. If you weren't a 'threat' to him financially (contest,training,supplement sales) and he knew you were as 'open minded' or experimental as he was, you'll find yourself in the 5g/wk + range of 2-4 drugs, with no less than 3/4 vial serostim/day (this was way before the cheap Chinese gh).

[Van_Bilderass]

what he said in person and what he said online were two different things. the 'cycles' attributed to him online were generic outlines. Simplest I can put it is 1-total mg's 3-5g/wk. 2-change your drugs every 3-4 weeks. mentioning mixing "anabolic" and "androgenic" drugs. that's where I disagreed... seeing as how 'androgenic' drugs are anabolic as well. But, if you're buying primo and var from him, it's to his benefit to advocate the pricey anabolics. If you weren't a 'threat' to him financially (contest,training,supplement sales) and he knew you were as 'open minded' or experimental as he was, you'll find yourself in the 5g/wk + range of 2-4 drugs, with no less than 3/4 vial serostim/day (this was way before the cheap Chinese gh).

That's interesting, thanks. Would be great if Milos came on here and commented. I'm sure he must be online even these days, hiding in Europe.

Milos said on a radio show that GHB was as good as 10iu of GH, and that's what he used when he couldn't afford GH.

Yeah, there's no differentiating anabolic and androgenic in the real world. Usually the more androgenic the more anabolic as well.

[Coach is Back!]

noted

But there are guys out there that know what they are doing bro, don't paint everyone with same brush. Now having said that you are right 9 out 10 people using slin are retards. To say everyone, is dumb though cause clearly guys like Heath and Kai would not be where they are without it.

You're missing the point. There are just somethings that shouldn't be fucked with.

[no one]

That's interesting, thanks. Would be great if Milos came on here and commented. I'm sure he must be online even these days, hiding in Europe.

Milos said on a radio show that GHB was as good as 10iu of GH, and that's what he used when he couldn't afford GH.

Yeah, there's no differentiating anabolic and androgenic in the real world. Usually the more androgenic the more anabolic as well.

gh isnt addictive. G is one of the most addicitve compounds out there.

man, what guys will do to get big.

[no one]

i used insulin for years.

i used it to push me over 310 pounds.

did it 'ruin my lines'? not at all.

did it give me a huge belly? fuck for a white guy i have a very small torso.

people vicitimise insulin without having ever used it. imo insulin is not the culprit.

its abuse of anabolics, calories, insulin, and gh that results in the undesireable sides.

but to lay it all on insulin is just bullshit and an opinion bourne of ignorance and listening to too many people online who have no clue what the fuck they are talking about. typical 'broscience knowledge'.

[arce1988]

 Thanks Coach

[Van_Bilderass]

You're missing the point. There are just somethings that shouldn't be fucked with.

Why did God make insulin if it's the root of all evil physically?

All things in excess are bad, test, gh, insulin, thyroid, you name it.

gh isnt addictive. G is one of the most addicitve compounds out there.

man, what guys will do to get big.

Never touched it but from what I read it's right there with heroin in addictiveness. A lifetime
of benzo use awaits if a heavy user ever gets off. Permanent alteration in brain chemistry.

Though I did talk to one dude pretty recently who just got out of jail for getting caught with 600 liters. Claims he had no withdrawals in jail, but he only used in the evenings.

[Borracho]

Any dose of ghb will not equal to 10ius of gorwth hormone. I would doubt anything coming out of milos's mouth if that's what he really said...