Author Topic: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week  (Read 23985 times)

musclecenter

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2013, 07:06:50 PM »
good point. Olympic lifters have huge legs for their weight classes and squat twice per day every day for years on end. And with a hell of a lot more weight than these bodybuilders
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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #126 on: November 14, 2013, 11:05:30 AM »
as an aside and something to consider, i dont think its the muscles ability to recover that you have to worry about from over training. imo based on my experiences w the right compounds as stated before your recovery time should be ample given only wanting to train everything 2x a week.

where i think the bigger problem lies is the tendons and your cns. the fibre itself can take a pounding, its the tendons that seem to need longer time to heal. ever notice how after a hard arm workout sometimes that forearm tendon that attaches itself onto the top of the brachialis is sore for days after the actual fibre trained has repaired? that is what will be your limiting factor- the tendons. at the bicep attachments, pectoralis etc etc but that too will pass once you get your body used to the increased volume and frequency.

great example about olympic lifters btw.

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #127 on: November 15, 2013, 03:49:52 PM »
as an aside and something to consider, i dont think its the muscles ability to recover that you have to worry about from over training. imo based on my experiences w the right compounds as stated before your recovery time should be ample given only wanting to train everything 2x a week.

where i think the bigger problem lies is the tendons and your cns. the fibre itself can take a pounding, its the tendons that seem to need longer time to heal. ever notice how after a hard arm workout sometimes that forearm tendon that attaches itself onto the top of the brachialis is sore for days after the actual fibre trained has repaired? that is what will be your limiting factor- the tendons. at the bicep attachments, pectoralis etc etc but that too will pass once you get your body used to the increased volume and frequency.

great example about olympic lifters btw.

It's right the opposite bro, at least IMO.

Broz used to have that small column on overtraining on his website, not anymore. There he cited neurochemist, very interesting read by the way. The only thing that can stop you from lifting daily, three times per day is your muscles and tendons. CNS won't burn out just as it does not burn out for ping pong players, starcraft players, quake3 gamers and such :P These activities also require neurological adaptation and as we know the only way to achieve that is putting a lot of stress on it.

That being said, after very heavy set of 1 rep max sometimes you WILL feel burn out even though your muscles are not even a little bit sore. But if you continue to do that daily, every day you will eventually adapt. The only thing what remains constant is the time of recovery of your muscles and tendons. I have spoken to olympic lifter and he claimed that actually lifting daily is better than lifting 3-4x per week because if you lift daily, you (your muscles) will be so fatigued and sore that you won't be actually able to perform at your usual level THUS your tendonds and CNS won't get stressed as much. 3x per week or even less frequent workouts tempt you to perform at your maximal possible level so either you limit yourself or you WILL get injured.

This is also why people say "wow, it's impossible to train for 1-3 reps 7 times per week, I've tried maxing out every week and I failed". What they don't realise is that maxing out every day is SAFER than maxing out every week and allows you to adapt.

I never tried that myself but most top athletes in olympic weightlifting train this way so there MUST be something to it :P There are some limitations to this, for example lower back recovers poorly so you will have to squat olympic style and avoid deadlifts. High reps are not recommended :P I wish back then when I was younger and had more time I knew about this, I would certainly give it a try.

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #128 on: November 15, 2013, 06:19:15 PM »
Good post deceiver.

Broz program is of course heavily influenced by the Bulgarian method.
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The Revelation

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #129 on: November 16, 2013, 11:04:20 AM »
It's right the opposite bro, at least IMO.

Broz used to have that small column on overtraining on his website, not anymore. There he cited neurochemist, very interesting read by the way. The only thing that can stop you from lifting daily, three times per day is your muscles and tendons. CNS won't burn out just as it does not burn out for ping pong players, starcraft players, quake3 gamers and such :P These activities also require neurological adaptation and as we know the only way to achieve that is putting a lot of stress on it.

That being said, after very heavy set of 1 rep max sometimes you WILL feel burn out even though your muscles are not even a little bit sore. But if you continue to do that daily, every day you will eventually adapt. The only thing what remains constant is the time of recovery of your muscles and tendons. I have spoken to olympic lifter and he claimed that actually lifting daily is better than lifting 3-4x per week because if you lift daily, you (your muscles) will be so fatigued and sore that you won't be actually able to perform at your usual level THUS your tendonds and CNS won't get stressed as much. 3x per week or even less frequent workouts tempt you to perform at your maximal possible level so either you limit yourself or you WILL get injured.

This is also why people say "wow, it's impossible to train for 1-3 reps 7 times per week, I've tried maxing out every week and I failed". What they don't realise is that maxing out every day is SAFER than maxing out every week and allows you to adapt.

I never tried that myself but most top athletes in olympic weightlifting train this way so there MUST be something to it :P There are some limitations to this, for example lower back recovers poorly so you will have to squat olympic style and avoid deadlifts. High reps are not recommended :P I wish back then when I was younger and had more time I knew about this, I would certainly give it a try.


hey bro great post thanks for that lots of solid info in there.

in my post I was speaking to what prevents me from training each muscle group more often and more often than not it's sore tendons not the muscle group itself.

for example I went to do arms 3 nights ago. my tris and bis were feeling tight so that's always a good indicator to me they are good to go- tight by meaning I can make then cramp easily in a second or two just by flexing them.

so off to the gym I go, ready for a killer arm workout. I start w bbell curls for bis and goddamn it if that tendon isn't so sore it's all I can think abt thru the entire range of motion. so naturally where the mind is, the stress follows, and because in thinking abt how sore those tendons are all I can feel is them burning further.

no matter what I did after this ie dbell curl etc it was that tendon I felt. I did one more set pack it in disgustedly and went home. no sense spinning my wheels.

I'm sure you know what I mean. you'll notice it happen w all your other groups too. I'm talking for guys who train w weights for your sole purpose of hypertrophy in my case tho not Olympic athletes or power lifters.

I'm the years I've been doing this there has always been a way to train around a still mildly, not entirely recovered muscle group (not painful to the touch sore, sore where you feel it a bit as you warm up). a different angle. a different exercise etc. but sore tendons forget about it. not happening.

so in my experience it's the tendons that need time to get used to workload over the cell itself. I think the cell repairs at a much fasted rate than tendon. that's when tendon surgery is such a bitch to rehab.

again all in the scope of my own experience and what objectives I am hoping to achieve from my sessions.

awesome love this kind of discussion lots of good info and shared knowledge. it betters everyone when you get into things like this. even people not participating in these types of threads just casually reading will take something away from it.

as for the CNS comment in my experience when I'm hitting everything 3x every 6 days for weeks on end, I find my muscles and tendons will get to the point where they can adapt to the workload but the CNS burning out is a very real, very prohibitive consequence. it normally takes me literally months of training like this kind of volume w one day off here and there to hit that wall but when I do there's now amount of good or drugs that will bridge that the body will need rest and not just one or two days.

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #130 on: November 16, 2013, 11:41:59 AM »
I agree with the tendon issues but thats mostly upperbody push muscles and smaller muscles like biceps. Yes, they need more time to recover. Legs on the other hand can take a beating. Legs can run marathons for fucks sake. They can walk across continents.

Like I've said before here and other threads, even on only 1000 calories I can set PRs in the squat and with rows. However, push muscle strength is either stagnant or goes down. This is without AAS. It's always been this way for me and I've observed it in other people as well. Same with other nattys cutting who I follow on youtube.

As for the cns... man, these oly lifters are maxing out regularly in multiple lifts - not just the squat. There has to be some sort of adaptation.

This from Neuro_doc a neurobiologist who posted on bbing.com in a thread with Broz.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121212081&page=11


Quote
@crackyflipside - In the "dark times"? it's just as I said, a lot like "withdrawl"? from substance abuse. If you want the specifics, Ill try to lay them out for you as best I can. Maybe this will clear up some of the misconceptions people like IA and his nuthuggers have over what actually happens when you lift weights. Then again, maybe monkeys will fly out of my behind...

Most people think the only part of the body to adapt to lifting are the muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. In fact, the brain also adapts to whatever stress you put on the body. It physically changes its structure and ability to deal with chemicals which directly relate to your physical activity. If you are a runner, youll get better at making and using chemicals which deal with running. Youll also develop and affinity for extremely short shorts, politics, FOX news, granola, etc.

One thing that pissed me off about IA is his insistence that the CNS fatigues? in some way. Bulls**t. People are still taught that the nervous system runs off of electrical impulses like a power cable. It doesnt. The nerve impulses (synapses) run off of chemicals (neurotransmitters). If these chemicals are not present, there is no signal between brain and muscle. The reason you can measure electrical impulses in the nervous system is because the electrical impulse is a BYPRODUCT of this chemical reaction. Its called an electrochemical reaction.

A large part of how strong we are is the ability to create and deal with a higher concentration of these neurotransmitters. The nerves develop more receptor sites to connect with them, and the glands learn to make more of the neurotransmitters themselves. Only then do you get a stronger impulse.

When you start placing demands on the brain to lift maximum weights every day, it says "oh crap I need to learn how to make and use these chemicals or hes going to kill us". So it goes through an adaptive period where it shuts down some functions and tries to upgrade?. These are the "dark times"?.

The main chemical in muscle contraction is SEROTONIN. It actually regulates how HARD the muscle contracts, which is why only the heaviest weights seem to effect our mood, the reason why people shy away from maximal lifting and cower from the imaginary symptoms of overtraining.

Serotonin just happens to be the main feel good hormone in the body. It directly effects your mood and mental outlook, your “happiness” and willingness to train. Your sleep, appetite, and also effects the cardiovascular system (your heart rate increases when you are supposedly overtrained - this is why). The serotonin cycle in the brain gets screwed up when drug addicts go into withdrawl (most recreational drugs artificially influence the serotonin pathways, which is why they are so much fun). There are other neurotransmitters which get effected by this (acetylcholine for example), but serotonin is the big one.

So, when the body receives a demand to lift heavy things on a daily basis, the brain shuts down the serotonin receptors to upgrade them. The brain structure changes take a few days to a few weeks. Changes in individual nerves happen quickly, a few days at most. This is why the dark times occur. Its the adaptive period thats needed for the brain and body to get to the next higher level. Natures little joke is obviously making us feel like crap when we are actually improving.

The body is trying to get us to stop the stress so it isnt forced to remodel the whole place, but thats exactly what you want. Thats why its so important to keep pounding away through it all. You want the greatest adaptation to take place.

Guys who are afraid of this response are guys who are lifting because they like the way it makes them feel. If you do lighter workouts, this serotonin is raised, but there is no signal to adapt. You feel “high”. Basically lifting weights becomes like a drug. People feel better doing light useless workouts, just like they feel better taking a hit of crack. I think this is why no one wants to try lifting the Bulgarian way. They are addicts.

You asked me about cortisol. There are no good and bad hormones. There are only hormones specific to your physical activity. Do you know why cortisol is released in weight lifting? Cortisol controls the blood pressure and concentration of blood sugar.

With short bursts of intense lifting (singles and doubles), blood sugar is not the primary fuel. Blood sugar only becomes an issue when you are doing higher reps. Cortisol is released mainly as a way to cope with these high reps, a way to shuttle more fuel (blood sugar) into the muscle tissue by using higher blood pressure. This is one reason bodybuilders have their posing trunks in a bunch over it. Cortisol is dealt with just like serotonin. The body tries to adapt to using it, and all the bodybuilders run and scream. If they stuck with it theyd go through a response much like the “Dark times, and theyd be able to handle more high rep sets afterwards.

In this case, cortisol is specific to the activity bodybuilders, not power or olympic lifters. Keep your reps low and you never have to worry about it. (It has nothing to do with total volume, only reps in the set.)

Thats funny what you mentioned about the Bulgarians having huge adrenals. It makes sense. They adapt by getting larger and stronger just like anything else. Thats also a great argument against limiting “genetics”. Someone else would look at normal sized adrenals and say they would obviously be overloaded by stress. The Bulgarians entire organism changed in response to their lifting. Form follows function. Awesome stuff.

The adrenals dont only release cortisol, they release adrenaline as well. Adrenaline acts as one of the triggers to this adaptive period. You should go read the lecture by Ivan Abajiev here :

- weightliftingexchange.co m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=74&Itemi d=75

He explains this whole adaptive period and how it effects more than just the musculature. Go read the paragraphs which start with:

"So this is our aim when we are training athletes, that we would build up all those organs and muscles needed for a certain performance, not only the muscles, but the whole cardiovascular and other systems that support the working of the muscles in order for a better performance. The adaptive process however, does not only include all the lungs and the heart and the other organs that I mentioned."

So I hope I explained that all well enough. Bottom line, from a physiological standpoint - BROZ IS RIGHT. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Take care.

(p.s. - If you think maxing squats daily is tough, try typing all of this out on a phone!)
A

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #131 on: November 16, 2013, 01:28:25 PM »
Monday- chest triceps abs cardio
Tuesday- back biceps cardio
Wed- legs shoulders
Thursday- chest triceps abs cardio
Friday- back biceps cardio abs
saturday- lefs shoulders forearms
Sunday- off

Th, fr, sat doing supersets and dropsets.
Amlost puked myself in the gym today after three dropsets of sqauts , 3 of front squats and deadlift stlye squats. Head is still spinning. Loving every bit of it.
;D
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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #132 on: November 16, 2013, 05:55:16 PM »
Monday- chest triceps abs cardio
Tuesday- back biceps cardio
Wed- legs shoulders
Thursday- chest triceps abs cardio
Friday- back biceps cardio abs
saturday- lefs shoulders forearms
Sunday- off

Th, fr, sat doing supersets and dropsets.
Amlost puked myself in the gym today after three dropsets of sqauts , 3 of front squats and deadlift stlye squats. Head is still spinning. Loving every bit of it.
;D

do your shoulders with chest and triceps.... if you can do much of anything after a full leg routine theres somthing amiss

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #133 on: November 16, 2013, 06:04:40 PM »
Monday- chest triceps abs cardio
Tuesday- back biceps cardio
Wed- legs shoulders
Thursday- chest triceps abs cardio
Friday- back biceps cardio abs
saturday- lefs shoulders forearms
Sunday- off

Th, fr, sat doing supersets and dropsets.
Amlost puked myself in the gym today after three dropsets of sqauts , 3 of front squats and deadlift stlye squats. Head is still spinning. Loving every bit of it.
;D

hey bro, can i suggest something?

try
back shoulders in that order on one day
chest arms super setting bi's and tris the next in that order
legs the next.
repeat


forget the drop sets and super sets except for arms. giant sets are great however. other than that keep your workout pretty standard. you'll get enough volume hitting everything 3x in 9 days. the idea is not destroy the muscle, apply enough stress to cause it to need to repair and then hit it 48 hours later. thats where the growth is. and drop the cardio, just go set to set to set with no rest. the idea is to get in and out under 25 minutes.

local hero

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #134 on: November 16, 2013, 06:09:11 PM »
hey bro, can i suggest something?

try
back shoulders in that order on one day
chest arms the next in that order
legs the next.
repeat


forget the supersets and drop sets. just keep it like that. you'll get enough volume hitting everything 3x in 9 days. the idea is not destroy the muscle, apply enough stress to cause it to need to repair and then hit it 48 hours later. thats where the growth is. and drop the cardio, just go set to set to set with no rest. the idea is to get in and out under 25 minutes.

your a moron... sorry i had to be the one to share this with you

no hard feelings?

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #135 on: November 16, 2013, 06:16:46 PM »
your a moron... sorry i had to be the one to share this with you

no hard feelings?


none, at all bro. im happy to help where i can. my advise is free and good. if someone wants to take it and better themselves great. if not, great. :)






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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #136 on: November 16, 2013, 06:48:04 PM »
your a moron... sorry i had to be the one to share this with you

no hard feelings?

the guy is an elite bber and it actually makes sense. If volume determined growth, then we could grow lifting the same load. If my best bench was 400 for 5 reps....and I hit 400 for 10 reps today. Is there anything that cable flyes, weighted dips, or hammer presses are going to do that that set of bench press didn't? I doubt it.
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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #137 on: November 17, 2013, 01:13:11 AM »
always made my best gains training 3 days per week. Always made my best size gains in the higher rep ranges 15-20. tried training 5 days per week occasionally and always ended up looking flat and like shit.
probably you were undereating.
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macos

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #138 on: November 17, 2013, 01:21:36 AM »
day 1, chest & back, abs
day 2, shoulders & arms, abs
day 3, legs,

training 6 consecutive days, then 1 day off.(no matter holidays or sunday.)

musclecenter is so inspiring. Amazing.
Legend.
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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #139 on: November 17, 2013, 01:28:28 AM »
I do

Workout A : chest-back-shoulders-abs
Workout B : quads-hams-calves-biceps-triceps

2on / 1 off , 3 sets to failure per bodypart

This works for me

Respect

Madg

macos

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #140 on: November 17, 2013, 01:40:54 AM »
do your shoulders with chest and triceps.... if you can do much of anything after a full leg routine theres somthing amiss
i go bazooka on legs. Shoulder workout cant feel a thing. Everything just goes numb.
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musclecenter

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #141 on: November 17, 2013, 05:36:27 AM »
musclecenter is so inspiring. Amazing.
Legend.
thanks,
pic from yesterday

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #142 on: November 17, 2013, 06:38:59 AM »

musclecenter

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Re: Training bodyparts once per week vs twice per week
« Reply #143 on: November 17, 2013, 07:35:32 AM »
chest, back & abs today(sunday)