Author Topic: Cardio discussion  (Read 66839 times)

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Cardio discussion
« on: January 31, 2004, 11:14:36 AM »
Cardio

Some people say cardio is not neccassary cause you can just eat less food and skip the cardio, well there is more to cardio than burning calories during it, actually burning calories during it has little to nothing to do with the change in your phsiuqe, the fat burning benefits you get from cardio are hormones that are secreted during and after cardio that elevates your metabolism to burn fat while your resting, and prevent food from accumulating into fat.  

It's important to remember that cardio is an important tool that you do which prevents food from accumulating on your body as both fat and muscle, but you can still gain muscle depending on other hormones such as testosterone, and how much of the thyroid hormone T3 is being produced in your body (see thyroid section at ???? for more info on thyroid hormones), cause T3 eats away at fat and more muscle than other thyroid hormones. Later ill explain how to get more T2 rather than T3 from cardio, since T2 preserves muscle more than T3.  The point of being able to eat more without it having to turn into bodyfat, will result in a faster metabolism.  Your body will simply use the food as energy, turn some into glycogen, then most of it will actually get "wasted", yep, not excreted, your metabolism will simply waste the calories, cause it has no use for them, and in turn in will increase your metabolism, cause your metabolim HAS to increase to waste the calories.


The Hormonal response to cardio

The main hormone secreted when doing cardio is GH, secondly TSH (thyroid Stimulating Hormone).  The more intense you do it the more of those hormones will get secreted.  The point of these hormones is to help your body adapt to the physical stress your doing (cardio), your body does everything in its power to keep your body from getting heavier, which involves preventing food from accumulating on your body as fat and muscle.  If you regulary do intense cardio (at least twice a week) for only even like 15 minutes, that is generally enough to keep anything you eat from acummulating on your body.  Yes, you can eat all the pizza, cake, pie, tons of calories whatever you want, and you most likely wont gain weight or extremely slowly at the least, your body looks at this as a threat to your survival of the surroudings of your environment.  But keep in mind in order for this non-accumulating of food to occur, you must push your self as hard as you can with your cardio workouts.

Long, moderate intensity cardio raises the following hormones:  GH, TSH, T3, cortisol, Some T2.  note: T3 and cortisol eat away at both fat and muscle

Short, high intensity cardio raises the following hormones:  GH, TSH, T2, and some T3.  note:T2 preserves more muscle than T3.

Long, low intensity cardio raises the following hormones: generally little to none at all.

The best way to increase your metabolism is a combination of doing intense cardio, and eating tons of calories all through out the day.  Eating plenty of food helps your body adapt to its environment better, and in the case of cardio, it will help you lose fat.  This is the key to getting that lean small look.


What kind of cardio should i do?

Now here's something interesting to note, do you think walking as a form of a cardio workout is a threat to your survival and that your body will prevent all incoming food from accumulating on your body?  I don't think so, unless walking for you is difficult and intense to do.  It's important to keep in mind that most of your calories you burn in a day is not directly from the activities that you do but rather your metabolism which is created from the activities that you do.  In other words, changes to your physique are due to your metabolism and not burning calories during physical activities.  The only time your changing your physique from burning calories from physical activites is when your starving yourself (this is actually done by the last week or so of a bodybuilder preparing for a contest, trying to get totally shredded, but they are losing muscle at the same time with this process).  Remember, burning fat during cardio is not the real fat loss benefits you get from cardio, its all about adaptations to your environment, and this is all done by hormones.

Now putting this info together its easy to say that short intense cardio workouts is so much superior to longer less intense cardio.  It enables you to lose fat and keep you from getting fatter, while allowing you to preserve more muscle than longer durations.

Another interesting comparison is looking at distance runners verses sprinters.  Notice how distance runners are generally a lot skinnier with less muscle than sprinters who have a lot more muscle with still the same low amount of body fat?  It's because of too much T3 and cortisol eating away at everything their body has so they get very light, so that the stress of running long distances is reduced greatly.

As far as what kind of cardio is better than the other (such as swimming, running, jump ropping, hiking, dancing, etc.., there is none!  It's usually good to do different ones every now and then for a change of stress, which equates to more GH output.

how much cardio should i do?

Keeping in mind the more short and intense the better, it's good to mix up your cardio workouts, if running is the type of cardio you like doing then, say, do interval training one day, and do a 10 minute fast run another day etc..

Generally you don't have to do cardio every day to keep the hormones flowing, your body still releases hormones from a workout days after a workout and sometimes weeks, months, years, and/or decades after depending on how long of your life you've been doing cardio or whatever workout (this is discussed more in chapter XXX).  I'd say do at least one cardio workout a week no matter what your goal is (gaining muscle or losing fat), but if your goal is to lose fat i'd probably do about 2 to 3 cardio workouts a week, that's it.  I'd say if your a begginer do 3 a week, someone who has been doing cardio for a long time, it would not hurt to switch to only 1 or 2 a week, this is because of the long term hormonal effect of exercise (this is explained in more detail in chapter XXX). People who do cardio almost everyday (especially for longer durations), are wasting thier time!  If Someone's goal is to gain muscle, they would probably only want to do 0 to 2 cardio sessions a week, doing only a few short sprints,  usually only like two 15 - 30 second sprints. that's it.  If you allready have an extremely fast metabolism i'd do no cardio at all if your trying to gain muscle.

Why NOT do the same "fat burning phase" cardio sessions with your gaining muscle phases?  Cause like i said, this will stop you from gaining muscle along with fat.  Your goal during the gaining muscle phase is to slow your metabolism down a bit so you can gain muscle.  Doing cardio will prevent this.  But, like i said, short sprints will not hinder muscle mass gains, while keeping your fat in check as best as possible.


At what time of the day should i do cardio?

Anytime you feel you have the highest amount of intensity to do it, after at least your first meal of the day, and that insulin is settled down a bit (this is done by not eating a high carb meal before the workout and that you've waited at least an hour after eating to do it.)  The reason why you don't want so much insulin in your bloodstream while your working out is because insulin prevents GH from being secreted.

Most People will say first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, reason being is because your body is short on glycogen supply and will take only fat for fuel for the workout.  This is nonsense.  The point of doing cardio is alterating your internal hormonal environment that increases your metabolism, not burning fat during the workout.  There are several important reasons why you should not do cardio first thing in the morning.  One, you are more prone to injury, you just woke up from a 6+ hours of sleeping, your body needs warming up before doing intense exercise.  Two, your intensity will be decreased, which is extremely important for a good hormonal excreting cardio workout.  Three, when you wake up in the morning the hormone cortisol is raised which is the "main" catobolic hormone, which goes away after eating breakfast.  Breakfast jumpstarts your metabolism for the day, skipping breakfast and doing cardio instead raises catobolic hormones even more and slows your metabolism, which is a good formula for losing muscle and gaining fat!


How do I combine my cardio workouts with my weight workouts?

Although it's better to do cardio and weights on seperate days.  When doing both on the same day do resistance exercise first (but a 5 minute aerobic warm-up is beneficial before weight training to get the blood pumping).  It's more important to preserve your strength, energy, and intensity for the weight training part of your workout, because intensity is more critical to weight training than to cardio training.
 
Although you can do two seperate workouts during the day, doing cardio earlier in the day, then do resistance later on in the day, making sure you have several meals inbetween that time.  But if your doing them all in one workout, do resistance first, then cardio.

rotterdam-boy

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2004, 06:59:50 AM »
Yes, i believe you're right about all of this. No wonder i didnt loose any fat during my cardio sessions of 2 hours on an empty stomack.

Thans a lot bro.

gijoe

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2004, 07:37:56 AM »
Quote
Cardio

Your body will simply use the food as energy, turn some into glycogen, then most of it will actually get "wasted", yep, not excreted, your metabolism will simply waste the calories, cause it has no use for them, and in turn in will increase your metabolism, cause your metabolim HAS to increase to waste the calories.
**Turns to adipose (FAT), not "wasted"

The Hormonal response to cardio

If you regulary do intense cardio (at least twice a week) for only even like 15 minutes, that is generally enough to keep anything you eat from acummulating on your body.  Yes, you can eat all the pizza, cake, pie, tons of calories whatever you want, and you most likely wont gain weight or extremely slowly at the least, your body looks at this as a threat to your survival of the surroudings of your environment.  But keep in mind in order for this non-accumulating of food to occur, you must push your self as hard as you can with your cardio workouts.

**I don't think so...eat all you want, do a couple 15 minute sessions of cardio??

The best way to increase your metabolism is a combination of doing intense cardio, and eating tons of calories all through out the day.  Eating plenty of food helps your body adapt to its environment better, and in the case of cardio, it will help you lose fat.  This is the key to getting that lean small look.

**the best way to increase metabolism is to incorporate resistance exercises


Generally you don't have to do cardio every day to keep the hormones flowing, your body still releases hormones from a workout days after a workout and sometimes weeks, months, years, and/or decades after depending on how long of your life you've been doing cardio or whatever workout (this is discussed more in chapter XXX).  

**Aerobic activity only elevates the metabolism for a couple hours, unlike resistance training, which raises it for up to a couple days.

Although it's better to do cardio and weights on seperate days.  When doing both on the same day do resistance exercise first (but a 5 minute aerobic warm-up is beneficial before weight training to get the blood pumping).  It's more important to preserve your strength, energy, and intensity for the weight training part of your workout, because intensity is more critical to weight training than to cardio training.

**now that I agree with!


Lots of work to do :-(

jelly-bean

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2004, 06:37:24 AM »
gijoe, tell me then what can i do to loose fat and keep all the muscle. give an example, its getting confusing.

ciao
r'dam-boy

gijoe

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2004, 09:00:54 AM »
Quote
gijoe, tell me then what can i do to loose fat and keep all the muscle. give an example, its getting confusing.

ciao
r'dam-boy

The simplest thing is to cut back by 500 calories a day from maintenance (usually 10-12 calories X Bodyweight) and incorporate whichever type of cardio you prefer for 3-5 days a week.  Keep the protein high, carbs low to moderate, and don't take in any extra fat except that which apperas in the protein sources (except maybe some EFA's).  Keep the foods clean, like chicken, lean beef, fish, oatmeal, yams, fibrous veggies, etc...Don't lose more than 1-2 lbs per week, or it may be muscle.  If you aren't losing weight, drop some extra calories until you find your groove.  Hope that help, I am sure the other fine patrons of the training site can give some awesome input as well.
Lots of work to do :-(

INSOMNIA

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2004, 07:10:50 PM »
Quote

The simplest thing is to cut back by 500 calories a day from maintenance (usually 10-12 calories X Bodyweight) and incorporate whichever type of cardio you prefer for 3-5 days a week.  Keep the protein high, carbs low to moderate, and don't take in any extra fat except that which apperas in the protein sources (except maybe some EFA's).  Keep the foods clean, like chicken, lean beef, fish, oatmeal, yams, fibrous veggies, etc...Don't lose more than 1-2 lbs per week, or it may be muscle.  If you aren't losing weight, drop some extra calories until you find your groove.  Hope that help, I am sure the other fine patrons of the training site can give some awesome input as well.


Sounds like something I wouldve said ;D

Cardio is very much an individual thing..your body type is going to dictate how much cardio you need to do. What works for some will not work for others. Some can get away with next to none and others have to do it up to 3 hours per day precontest.

rotterdam-boy

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2004, 12:02:17 AM »
Yeah , but what about that hormone raising-routine of sprints, that gay said??   That its useless doing mutch cardio like 2 hours, then you loose muscle also. You think thats bullshit??

gijoe

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2004, 01:04:24 AM »
Quote
Yeah , but what about that hormone raising-routine of sprints, that gay said??   That its useless doing mutch cardio like 2 hours, then you loose muscle also. You think thats bullshit??

Sprints are just interval training, plain and simple.  I think no more than an hour should be good for MOST people, there are always exceptions.  That full hour shouldn't be at full intensity either, or you will lose muscle.
Lots of work to do :-(

rotterdam-boy

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Re: Cardio advice for all
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 07:04:23 AM »
I got a Hometrainer at home,  i used to ride it for 2 hours every other day, it didnt word i lost a lot of muscle also. Now im gonna start 30 min. each day, with 20 min slow riding, and 10 min fast (interval training). I eat a lot these couple of months, and im growing over night. I used to always train hard, but i never did eat enough how i supposed to. Such a fool i was. So im bulking now, and with that 30 min a day i hope to loose some fat you know, and keep on growing like i do right now. Is it possible??  I eat a lot of FIsh, meat, and pasta also a lots of fruitjuice with sugars and coca-cola. I need that caffeine before a workout bro.

So 30 min a day should be enough??

Agnostic007

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2004, 03:43:36 PM »
My cardio consists of 15 minutes total, 3 to 4 times a week. 4 minutes warm up on treadmill, bust out a 40 second sprint, rest a minute at a 5.0 speed, bust out 30 second sprint, rest another minute at the 5.0 speed, repeat till I hit 12 minutes, then do a 3 minute cool down pace. I usually set it at 2% incline. Does wonders for me and I dont feel like Im spending all day on the treadmill.

But thats just me..  

wartiger

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2004, 07:11:18 AM »
Hi,

the cardio which you discuss here is only for at burning, right?

What about long-time cardio with low intense? 3x60min. ?
For your heart? Does this help or disturb musclegrowing with the right calories?

sorry, for my bad english...

Hedgehog

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2004, 10:32:24 AM »
Hi,

the cardio which you discuss here is only for at burning, right?

What about long-time cardio with low intense? 3x60min. ?
For your heart? Does this help or disturb musclegrowing with the right calories?

sorry, for my bad english...

First of all, your English is just fine.

High Intensity Interval Training benefits the overall fitness a lot. You will get conditioned, and increase your all around wellness.

I highly recommend it.

Walks I only do when I feel like it. They can be beneficial as active recovery, ie speed up your recovery from heavy training. The increased body temperature and blood flow is beneficial.

Other types of active recovery includes:

Swimming (Lowtempo)
Sauna
Tanning
Skating (Lowtempo)
Biking (Lowtempo)


YIP
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Wqasz

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2004, 09:50:14 PM »
Quote
At what time of the day should i do cardio?

Anytime you feel you have the highest amount of intensity to do it, after at least your first meal of the day, and that insulin is settled down a bit (this is done by not eating a high carb meal before the workout and that you've waited at least an hour after eating to do it.)  The reason why you don't want so much insulin in your bloodstream while your working out is because insulin prevents GH from being secreted.

What is a considered high carb?
::)

wartiger

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2004, 10:25:39 PM »
Hi,

the cardio which you discuss here is only for at burning, right?

What about long-time cardio with low intense? 3x60min. ?
For your heart? Does this help or disturb musclegrowing with the right calories?

sorry, for my bad english...

First of all, your English is just fine.

High Intensity Interval Training benefits the overall fitness a lot. You will get conditioned, and increase your all around wellness.

I highly recommend it.

Walks I only do when I feel like it. They can be beneficial as active recovery, ie speed up your recovery from heavy training. The increased body temperature and blood flow is beneficial.

Other types of active recovery includes:

Swimming (Lowtempo)
Sauna
Tanning
Skating (Lowtempo)
Biking (Lowtempo)


YIP
Zack

Hi,

but do you recommend high intense cardio even when the goal is not to burn fat but gaining mass?

I think high intense cardio may not good for an ectomorph guy, because he needs natural a lot of food and with high intense cardio his metabolism will explode?!

What do you recommend for an HST-Trainee, which trains 3 time a week?

Addional 2 HIIT Sessions? Wouldn't that lead to overtrain?

Hope you can understand my posting and you'll answer me... ;)

Mr Anabolic

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2004, 10:20:50 AM »
Helpful yes, but you can throw all these guidelines out the window if you're on roids.

Mark1

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2004, 12:27:07 AM »
Just to throw my thoughts into the mix.
I decided to lean up a little a couple of months ago. And all I've done is backed off the carbs a bit, drinking more water and eating really clean. Seems to be working. Although its going to take longer than if I included cardio but it should help me keep all my size and hopefully I can keep growing.
Anyone else do this?

Mike

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2004, 03:13:22 PM »
I throw in a few light cardio sessions after some workouts but generally I just eat clean, all of my carbs pw or from veggies (except breakfast) and I have been losing fat at a nice pace.  Just be patient.  I'm am purely endomorphic too and this has worked better than running 6 days a week.  

Also, my workouts are pretty intense and heavy so I don't need all that cardio.

SpeedDemon

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2004, 06:08:39 PM »
i dunno i run at least 30 miles a week and i don't think my bf has been over 10% since... well ever!

but on the down side its hard to keep size on with that much running.

its like they say, if you want big muscles you gotta lift big weights and if you want to be fast you gotta go run fast.

its all about trade offs and choices

Mike

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2004, 08:24:45 PM »
Yeah, that's more marathoning than cardio.  But hey, whatever works.

o come on

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2004, 02:53:36 PM »
No, this is how you lose weight, fewer cals,lift heavy, clen, eca.bi fool.

zaneman

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2004, 04:45:12 PM »
 One good form of cardio that is joint friendly  if you have some decent mass/wt os walking fast on a high % incline on the treadmill. Set the ol' treadmill on 10-15% and walk from 3.5 to 4.0 mph and  that should do it uo right.  Howard

montrealman76

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2004, 09:00:44 AM »
Wqsaz, if you wanna know what high carbs are.. go out and buy a carb counter book. Atkins makes a great one.. and you dont have to follow his exact guidelines. Its a great way to understand what is good and bad carbs, and what amounts of food give you in carbs. I had to really change my eating habbits to cut down on alot of UNKNOWN carbs. Just 1 piece of fruit and id be almost at my max carb intake for the day.

The books are cheap , and might save you alot of headaches. Youll also save at the grocery store becuase you wont be buying all those crap food items that cost a bundle and all they do is hurt you. ( ie. fruits, milk, bread, pasta, potatoes etc. )

This is strickly if you wanna LOSE weight. If your already slim.. then dont worry too much on carbs.

As for the guy who said he liked drinking pop and stuff to give him an energy boost before working out... Bad choice. If you really must drink coke or pepsi, drink diet. I know it sucks compared to the real stuff and there is a higher count in aspartame, BUT, this will give you energy as well and it has 0.08 carbs per large glass so works for losing weight and allowing you to drink it. I suggest not drinking 4 or 5 cups a day though, as aspartame is nto good for you. Try coffee with sweet low and cream, water , tea with cream, diet drinks, or a protein shake mixed with water ( chocolate seems to make me think i have more energy because i think its chocolate yet its good for you.) Any other drink like gatorade, regular soft drinks, fruit juices, tomato juices, ice teas, etc. are ALL high on carbs.. so if your intaking those, youll get the energy to workout but youll be killing your self with sugar are carbs and wasteing all the cardio your doing in order to lose the weight.

Hope this clears a few things up on high carbs and what to drink.

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2004, 05:11:23 PM »
what's wrong with aspartame?

montrealman76

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2004, 08:49:26 AM »
I guess you havent heard the news.... aspartame is really bad for you in excessive quanties.

READ MY NEW POST ON ASPARTAME IN THE NUTRITION SECTION

slacker

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Re:Cardio discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2004, 10:41:10 PM »
I havent started nt cardio yet Im thinkking of waiting until may I dont want to trade off any size  :)
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