Author Topic: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?  (Read 5887 times)

Gonuclear

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2013, 02:16:31 AM »
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks


What's wrong with "the make believe shit"?  You mean like doomsday heralded by Comet ISON?  Or do you mean some other make believe shit?

syntaxmachine

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2013, 07:58:53 AM »
Agreed, in fact I think specifically the start of the Vietnam war will be seen as the final straw. The US suddenly went from the invincible global superpower to the country that couldn't beat a bunch of poorly armed peasants, even with science and war crimes. The inferiority complex this generated is patently obvious. Not that it didn't also achieve good (focus on science and economy if you can't beat them militarily), but eventually it will break (or already has broken) the economy by insane defense spending.

In short: nothing new here, it has happened to every empire in the history of mankind. Cue the Americans claiming "not our empire!", just like the others also thought.

Here are a couple of problems with your narrrative: defense spending was significantly slashed after the Vietnam War, practically hollowing out the force (so many experts assert, anyway), and (ii) defense isn't and never will be the primary driver of USG spending.

240 is Back

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2013, 07:59:18 AM »
we had the 9th best porn

The Showstoppa

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2013, 08:09:58 AM »
Being the best does not create contempt. Being arrogant breeds contempt.

 ::)

phreak

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2013, 08:16:09 AM »
Here are a couple of problems with your narrrative: defense spending was significantly slashed after the Vietnam War, practically hollowing out the force (so many experts assert, anyway), and (ii) defense isn't and never will be the primary driver of USG spending.
It may have been briefly slashed after the lost Vietnam war. Are you saying the current spending (more than half the total global war spending) is a recent development? And that even assuming just 20%, can the US economy truly carry that?

You are right, war spending is 'only' about 20% of the total budget. Not including downstream effects of wars, so it would be interesting to know the real percentages. Wouldn't be surprised if the effective percentage would be 30 or higher.

phreak

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2013, 08:17:20 AM »
::)
Are you contemptuous of me because I am great, or because you think I'm arrogant?

King Shizzo

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2013, 08:25:13 AM »
like all of the other empires

rome

greece

egypt

etc
America can only hope to leave a legacy half as great as these. Come talk to me if America reaches a 1,000 year anniversary.

The Showstoppa

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2013, 08:27:02 AM »
Are you contemptuous of me because I am great, or because you think I'm arrogant?

You are neither.

phreak

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2013, 08:28:22 AM »
You are neither.
Oh shit, touched a redneck nerve!  :o


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Archer77

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2013, 08:38:32 AM »

So you don't think America has change radically before? Independence? The constitution? The civil war? It was and still is America and is still called America.

Maybe you just wont realize change?



The United States had a pretty consistent narrative until quite recently.  Change is good but sometimes it's not.  You can't argue that when something changed it remains what it was anf therefore can be define as the same.  Italy is not Rome.
A

Shockwave

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2013, 08:53:35 AM »
Im gonna say much like Rome... a great idea, gone horribly awry in it's later years.

Gonuclear

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2013, 08:55:42 AM »
You want to focus on the name only? Fine, then the US will probably exist for another few hundred years. Although the larger the country, the faster and more thorough breakups eventually happen. But exist only as other past empires exist now, such as Spain, Portugal, UK, Holland, etc. The home country remains, but the glory days will be long gone.


Why don't you be "long gone".  Go to another country that is more to your liking.   How about another planet? 

syntaxmachine

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2013, 08:56:00 AM »
It may have been briefly slashed after the lost Vietnam war. Are you saying the current spending (more than half the total global war spending) is a recent development? And that even assuming just 20%, can the US economy truly carry that?

You are right, war spending is 'only' about 20% of the total budget. Not including downstream effects of wars, so it would be interesting to know the real percentages. Wouldn't be surprised if the effective percentage would be 30 or higher.

I don't see the relevance of defense spending as a percent of "total global war spending" since it says nothing of the USG's ability to afford such costs -- and I understand your primary assertion to be about affordability. Defense spending as a % of GDP is a much more sensible variable to evaluate.

Defense spending as a % of GDP has remained below 1970 levels ever since the post-Vietnam cuts, and currently stands at about 60% of that value -- a whopping 4% of GDP. Further, it is slated to decrease at least 10% once the draw down from the Bush Administration's wars is complete (defense spending has always declined significantly after a period of conflict is over).

Therefore, it just isn't the case that the US suddenly piled on a bunch of unsustainable defense commitments after the Vietnam War, nor that what it has spent on defense since then is the primary determinant of future budgetary issues: spending on welfare programs has averaged 7% of GDP over the same period and is slated to increase substantially over the next 20+ years.

P.S. I'm sure we both agree that defense spending is too high. But that isn't what is being debated here.

edit: checked the data and tweaked a few values (1970 instead of 1975, 4% instead of 4.4%, 60% instead of 63%)

Mr.1derful

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2013, 09:00:38 AM »
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks

An arrogant and destructive empire that mistakenly thought its demise would not come, but did just as it has with all of the empires of the past. 

The Showstoppa

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2013, 09:01:07 AM »
Oh shit, touched a redneck nerve!  :o


 ::)

How so? I said you are neither great nor arrogant.   :'(


And I am proud of my redneckness. 

galeniko

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2013, 09:11:21 AM »
it will be remembered as the continent that sunk bc population was too fat.

i think the 2 atomic boms dropped on the japanese will not be forgotten in histry books either ;D

n

falco

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2013, 09:18:24 AM »

falco

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2013, 09:20:35 AM »

falco

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2013, 09:26:27 AM »

polychronopolous

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2013, 09:29:07 AM »
Being the best does not create contempt. Being arrogant breeds contempt.

Have another cup of hot cocoa and relax, pajama boy.  :D

galeniko

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2013, 09:29:57 AM »

the guy got huge balls ,or is it quads?
n

falco

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2013, 09:38:02 AM »

King Shizzo

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2013, 09:43:19 AM »

History really is amazing. I am grateful that future generations will get the full picture.

They will have pictures, video, and documents. Not the hypothesis that we argue about today.


falco

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2013, 10:08:32 AM »

arce1988

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Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2013, 10:12:45 AM »
Quote
An arrogant and destructive empire, that mistakenly thought it's demise would not come, but did... just as it has with all of the empires of the past.

^


this is what I meant