Which way should I go George, which way should I go?

[DirtyDirt]

I am 30 yrs YOUNG and a prior gear dabbler. I haven't touched gear in probable 3 years or so. I've been out of the game for a bit and now trying to get back in. In 3 years things sure change. Plenty of gear and pharm co's, I never heard of.

Although I was a fan of test's (mainly duro's), no matter what type I took, my face always blew up, no matter how clean I ate or how much water I drank. My body would be fairly lean, my face POOF!!! And, putting weight on isn't an issue, the issue is staying lean.

So my question to you GET BIGGER's out there is WHICH WAY SHOULD I GO? Is there a test that won't bloat, if so, what is it and how much should I take and how often?     

or....

A friend said I should just do a Deca - EQ stack so I don't have to worry about retaining water.
Please recommend something, like I said I've been out of the game for some time and I feel like a beginner... thanks

[freakfestMD]

The main question here is did you do cycles with the proper ancillaries and PCT (post-cycle-therapy)?  Test should be the base for any cycle you do, in my opinion, and then build off of that.  Sides like bloat, gyno, etc can be held in check with antiesterases (that block the enzyme that converts test to estrogen), such as arimidex, letrozole, proviron, etc, taken throughout the cycle.  There is, then, no "test that doesn't bloat" per se. 

Give us your stats, number of days you train per week, goals, etc, and we can certainly point you towards a regimen that will help you achieve whatever you desire.

[DirtyDirt]

I always kept my cycles light, at most I would do:

250mg Durotest E/W

200mg Deca E/W split into two injects

1 shot winny M-W-F

HCG at end 1 shot e/w for two weeks .......... and everything was in working order...

I am 6'3 @ 240lbs, I lean condition I was about 210 - 220lbs...

Please help

[freakfestMD]

That is a pretty "light" cycle, although I would caution you in this regard.  Often, at the expense of thinking you want to do a "light" cycle for the mistaken belief that you will have less side effects, health problems, etc., all you actually do is shut off your own testosterone production.  Your stats are good, though, as you clearly are a big guy.

Since you haven't really done what I would call a major cycle, I would suggest a 16- weeker, something like this:

Weeks 1-16: Testosterone enanthate IM 750 mg (divided and injected 2x per week)
Weeks 1-14: Nandrolone decanoate (deca) IM 400mg per week (200 mg 2x/week)
Weeks 1-6: Anadrol 75mg orally per day (or d-bol 50mg/day--your choice)

Arimidex 1mg orally or letrozole 1.25mg orally per day throughout the cycle
hcg 500IU every 5 days throughout the cycle
Nolvadex starting around 3 weeks post-cycle at 20-40mg per day for around 4 weeks

This is an example of a very basic yet very effective cycle.  I added the Abombs to "jumpstart" the cycle, as test e doesn't really start to kick in for about 4 weeks or so.  Given your tendency towards bloat, I think an anti-e is adviseable as suggested.  It's winter, so I would start with this one to reclaim some of your muscular size.  Obviously, you should keep your diet tight, and do cardio throughout.  This will prepare you well for your next cycle, and trust me, there will be more to come when you see how good you feel on this one...

Keep us posted on your progress throughout.

[mem]

dirtydirt you are in great hands with this advice
from FreakfestMD, his word IS golden.

This sounds/looks like a great program.
I wish I could contribute or add something
to the mix . . .

This IS like the program that I am just finnishing
which has worked extremely effectively . . .

3 way stack
in these defined ratios
anti aromatase used (zero bloat)
and HCG throuhout

Best of luck!

[DirtyDirt]

Mem, how were your gains overall............. I can't wait... Is it safe to say my receptors are saying "BRING IT ON!" Since it has been so long?

Believe it or not, I got pretty good results off that cycle I listed above, and that was what I considered being on heavy and I would hit that up for about 12 - 16 weeks tops....

[DIVISION]

DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

Weeks 1-4: D-bol 50MG ed
Weeks 1-15: Sustanon 500MG ew
Weeks 1-15: Deca 300MG ew
Weeks 16-19: Test Prop. 500MG ew
Weeks 14-19: Winstrol 75MG ed
Weeks 1-19: Arimidex 1MG eod
Weeks 1-24: HCG 300-500IU e5d
Weeks 20-24: Nolvadex 20MG ed


Because Lil' Dirt has only run small dosage cycle in the past, 500MG Sustanon is more than enough to boost him up.  I've also lowered the Deca accordingly, then tapered off the Sustanon w/ Prop and added Winstrol for the synergistic effect until the end of the cycle.  The HCG is run throughout and continued on through PCT whereupon Nolvadex will be incorporated.

This is clean and tight.





DIV

[mem]

Mem, how were your gains overall............. I can't wait... Is it safe to say my receptors are saying "BRING IT ON!" Since it has been so long?

Believe it or not, I got pretty good results off that cycle I listed above, and that was what I considered being on heavy and I would hit that up for about 12 - 16 weeks tops....

You A R E primed and read to Goooooo!

I am (almost in denial) stuggling with the extent of my progress . . . very happy though
I do not think that I can comfortably loose and keep off
any added body fat - safely anyway (a key to me).

I am 45 yo, 5'8", 200 lbs, 46" ch, 32" w, 18"neck
under 10% bf - probably closer to 8%
I am vascular on most of my body . . .

Others around me (good and bad thing) have commented about
my overall appearance. Having the size, definition and symmetry,
p r o f o u n d l y  increased (overall) body vascularity popping
everywhere. I have a hard time seeing this in mirror.

I while feeling silly saying it . . . that I look more like a pro
(than ever before), am a little more on the freakish side . . .

This cycle embodied profound (newfound) wisdom derived
from other great people here. IF you can do the longer cycle,
at 8 to 10 weeks we are generally just building momentum
(for me) the best improvements occured last 6 weeks.

Most here ARE in favor of longer routines . . . than *hormone blasts*

Longer (16 week) program has been (and felt) strong to my body.
At times (almost) overwhelming to my system - at times even scary.
I am ready (and prepared) for a break or a period of normalization.

As you said, I (too) typically AM really jacked/primed off (post) cycle . . .
it is great that you've had a period of rest.

[muscle19]

u got that right bro, great  results from the longer ones than the blasts. very good posts guys!


muscle

[gammahydroxy]

DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

Weeks 1-4: D-bol 50MG ed
Weeks 1-15: Sustanon 500MG ew
Weeks 1-15: Deca 300MG ew
Weeks 16-19: Test Prop. 500MG ew
Weeks 14-19: Winstrol 75MG ed
Weeks 1-19: Arimidex 1MG eod
Weeks 1-24: HCG 300-500IU e5d
Weeks 20-24: Nolvadex 20MG ed


Because Lil' Dirt has only run small dosage cycle in the past, 500MG Sustanon is more than enough to boost him up.  I've also lowered the Deca accordingly, then tapered off the Sustanon w/ Prop and added Winstrol for the synergistic effect until the end of the cycle.  The HCG is run throughout and continued on through PCT whereupon Nolvadex will be incorporated.

This is clean and tight.





DIV

This cat said he gets major bloating off of such a low dose of test. He may have to run 1mg arimidex everyday. I usually need to run 1mg arimidex daily with test or I look like a puffer fish. I know some are against the use of AI's on cycle. A little Estrogen is favorable for glycogen partitioning and glucose utilization...Also some estrogen is needed for sexual function as well. That is why many who use letro complain there sex drive is killed...Letrozole is a lot stronger than a-dex for sure. However, I hate the appearance of looking like a bloated juicer.

[Arnold jr]

This cat said he gets major bloating off of such a low dose of test. He may have to run 1mg arimidex everyday. I usually need to run 1mg arimidex daily with test or I look like a puffer fish. I know some are against the use of AI's on cycle. A little Estrogen is favorable for glycogen partitioning and glucose utilization...Also some estrogen is needed for sexual function as well. That is why many who use letro complain there sex drive is killed...Letrozole is a lot stronger than a-dex for sure. However, I hate the appearance of looking like a bloated juicer.

Agreed.

Sometimes 1mg ed of arimidex is necessary as well as helpful. I'm like you GH, I hate the bloated puffy look, but even more so I absolutely despise the way being bloated makes me feel.

[Double XL]

DIVISIONAL CHANGES:

Weeks 1-4: D-bol 50MG ed
Weeks 1-15: Sustanon 500MG ew
Weeks 1-15: Deca 300MG ew
Weeks 16-19: Test Prop. 500MG ew
Weeks 14-19: Winstrol 75MG ed
Weeks 1-19: Arimidex 1MG eod
Weeks 1-24: HCG 300-500IU e5d
Weeks 20-24: Nolvadex 20MG ed


Because Lil' Dirt has only run small dosage cycle in the past, 500MG Sustanon is more than enough to boost him up.  I've also lowered the Deca accordingly, then tapered off the Sustanon w/ Prop and added Winstrol for the synergistic effect until the end of the cycle.  The HCG is run throughout and continued on through PCT whereupon Nolvadex will be incorporated.

This is clean and tight.





DIV

DON'T FOLLOW THIS ADVICE DIRTYDIRT.  GO WITH TEST ENANTHATE OR CYP.  THERE IS NO REASON TO GO WITH SUST, IT IS A SHITTY BLEND THAT WILL YEILD UNSTABLE BLOOD LEVELS.

[BIGMIKE]

DON'T FOLLOW THIS ADVICE DIRTYDIRT.  GO WITH TEST ENANTHATE OR CYP.  THERE IS NO REASON TO GO WITH SUST, IT IS A SHITTY BLEND THAT WILL YEILD UNSTABLE BLOOD LEVELS.

AGREED.THE CYCLE SEEMS PRETTY TIGHT EXCEPT FOR THE SUST.I DON'T LIKE IT,NEVER HAVE.I ONLY USE CYP AND OCCASIONALLY TAPER DOWN (ONLY FOR SHOWS) TO PROP.

[Arnold jr]

DON'T FOLLOW THIS ADVICE DIRTYDIRT.  GO WITH TEST ENANTHATE OR CYP.  THERE IS NO REASON TO GO WITH SUST, IT IS A SHITTY BLEND THAT WILL YEILD UNSTABLE BLOOD LEVELS.

Sorry bro, but your dead wrong about this. I'm not sure where your getting your info, but sust is one of the best blends out there. As far as unstable blood levels this is completely avoidable with proper use.

Now I'm not trying to start shit with you here, that doesn't do any of us any good, but I know from reading many of your other post on this board that you like to bash people for disagreeing with you, and that's your prerogative. But if you disagree with me on this topic come back at me with facts and legitimate research, not bull-shit tough guy rhetoric.

[Double XL]

Sorry bro, but your dead wrong about this. I'm not sure where your getting your info, but sust is one of the best blends out there. As far as unstable blood levels this is completely avoidable with proper use.

Now I'm not trying to start shit with you here, that doesn't do any of us any good, but I know from reading many of your other post on this board that you like to bash people for disagreeing with you, and that's your prerogative. But if you disagree with me on this topic come back at me with facts and legitimate research, not bull-shit tough guy rhetoric.

I PROMISE TO ELABORATE INSTEAD OF JUST SPOUTING OFF WITH MY USUAL TOUGH GUY BULLSHIT RHETORIC POSTS.  I WILL GO INTO DETAIL IN A NEW THREAD. 

[DIVISION]

This cat said he gets major bloating off of such a low dose of test. He may have to run 1mg arimidex everyday. I usually need to run 1mg arimidex daily with test or I look like a puffer fish. I know some are against the use of AI's on cycle. A little Estrogen is favorable for glycogen partitioning and glucose utilization...Also some estrogen is needed for sexual function as well. That is why many who use letro complain there sex drive is killed...Letrozole is a lot stronger than a-dex for sure. However, I hate the appearance of looking like a bloated juicer.

He can change it up to 1MG ed if he wants, just that some people respond differently to Test than others. 

AGREED.THE CYCLE SEEMS PRETTY TIGHT EXCEPT FOR THE SUST.I DON'T LIKE IT,NEVER HAVE.I ONLY USE CYP AND OCCASIONALLY TAPER DOWN (ONLY FOR SHOWS) TO PROP.

Sorry Micheal,

But your preference for Cypionate is nothing more than a preference.  Some people like Enanthate, others like Prop, and still some (like me) prefer Sustanon.  The only reason I like Sustanon is because it's the easiest to predict in terms of sides and its steady blood concentrations of testosterone.  The staggered esters make it an easy blend to deal with.  I'm not saying Cypionate and Enanthate are bad esters, just that Sustanon is more ideal for longer cycles.

Sorry bro, but your dead wrong about this. I'm not sure where your getting your info, but sust is one of the best blends out there. As far as unstable blood levels this is completely avoidable with proper use.

^You know the score, baby Arnold.  Sustanon is the best blend out there, I don't think Organon would throw millions of dollars in R&D to produce a pharmaceutical grade product that doesn't work the way it was intended.  The point of Sustanon is to have a smooth time released flow of testosterone over a given length of time, without the unnecessary fluctuations in blood serum levels. 

I PROMISE TO ELABORATE INSTEAD OF JUST SPOUTING OFF WITH MY USUAL TOUGH GUY BULLSHIT RHETORIC POSTS.  I WILL GO INTO DETAIL IN A NEW THREAD.

That's great, Double XL.

Because I'm getting tired of deleting your posts because of your shitty attitude.

We've been over this, before.



DIV

[DirtyDirt]

AS far as my preference goes, Sust (to me) is one of the worst offenders when it comes to BLOAT! I would assume it is because of my larger frame and body type. But for whatever reason, Duroteston didn't bloat me. However my training partner who has a smaller frame and always (as a kid) had a basketball player build (thin and lean) did great with the sust. He kept most of his shape and just bulked up on top of it...

I got a 10ml 250mg per cc bottle of enanthate coming my way as well as some 200mg per cc Deca and some D-bol to replace those scary Anadrol (I am afraid of those things, heard too many stories about people pissing blood and whatnot)

As far as the DB's, my boy told me that there are now 5mg, 10mg & 25mg available, any one preference over another???

[freakfestMD]

As far as the DB's, my boy told me that there are now 5mg, 10mg & 25mg available, any one preference over another???

The dosage per pill is meaningless.  It's the total milligrams that you injest that matters.  If you are doing 50mg/day, split the dose and take half in am and the other in pm.

[DirtyDirt]

So now one last time Mr. FreakFestMD.... according to you, is the original cycle you issues what I should be going for? Any last minute changes I should know about?

[freakfestMD]

It was my original suggestion, and I see no reason to alter it.  Div's changes are fine, but I gave you what I think is a simple, effective, reasonably priced and easily accessible introductory cycle to initiate your return to the dark side.

You are young, and future cycles WILL follow.  See how you respond to this one, and you can build on it in subsequent cycles. 

Ultimately, what you choose to take is your own business.  Good luck with everything.

[DirtyDirt]

Thanks Freak, I appreciate your time and input. You are highly regarded on this site and I trust your judgement, the only thing I will change is a replacement of DBs instead of A-bombs, as I stated before, those things scare me...

I'll keep you posted... thanks again