FL Man Claims Self-Defense After Hopping A Fence To Shoot, Kill 21-Year-Old In A

[240 is Back]

Bodybuilding related because people that train with weights are much better at hopping fences.

FL Man Claims Self-Defense After Hopping A Fence To Shoot, Kill 21-Year-Old In A Hoodie


On Thursday, an Orlando man shot and killed a 21-year-old who was fleeing his yard. He didn’t appear to be stealing anything, according to witness accounts. He didn’t appear to be threatening anybody. But Claudius Smith said he feared he was a burglar, followed him over the fence to a neighboring apartment complex, where he shot him after he said he felt threatened, according to a confession documented in an Orlando Police Department report. Smith even said he feared victim Ricardo Sanes was armed “because his pants were falling down” and his hands were in his hoodie pockets, according to a report obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Now, questions are emerging about whether Smith will also invoke the state’s Stand Your Ground law, which gained notoriety over the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, shot in a Florida residential development while wearing a hoodie. Law enforcement officials don’t seem to believe Stand Your Ground applies. Smith has already been charged with second-degree murder. But that doesn’t stop a judge from granting Stand Your Ground immunity later. In one of the most recent Florida court decisions on Stand Your Ground, an appeals court granted Stand Your Ground immunity to a man who went to his car to get a gun before the fatal incident.

According to statements by Smith’s girlfriend, Angela Kemraj, to police, the incident started when she saw a man in the yard on surveillance cameras and reported it to Smith. She said they saw the individual in dark clothes and a hoodie leaving their yard without anything in his hands, and climbing over the fence to a neighboring apartment complex. Smith then left the apartment and climbed over the fence. Two minutes later, Kemraj said she heard gunshots. Soon after, Smith came back to the apartment and said Sanes tried to rob him, without mentioning the shooting. During initial police questioning, Smith later denied knowledge about the shooting, and only later confessed, claiming he shot in self-defense.

[240 is Back]

Another shooting has Floridians asking if Stand Your Ground makes any sense

Get ready for more discussion about Florida’s deadly Stand Your Ground laws. An Orlando man has shot and killed a guy he caught walking through his yard and he’s now saying it was in self-defense.

32-year-old Claudius Smith rushed out of his house armed with a handgun after his girlfriend said she saw someone in the yard on a surveillance monitor. Smith says he was plagued by robberies and thought he was finally catching the culprit red-handed. Smith confronted 21-year-old Ricardo Sanes and the two began arguing. Sanes began to walk away and Smith grabbed him to bring him inside “so police could be called,” according to the police report. Smith says Sanes threw the first punch and that he tried to grab his gun. So he shot him six times with the .45-caliber handgun. The police report states that Sanes was shot in the back.

Of course, Sanes can’t exactly tell his side of the story, since he’s dead.

Sanes’ body was found at a nearby apartment complex with a gun stuffed in his pants. He was wearing a hoodie. Smith was arrested later in the day on Thursday and charged with second-

Florida police have observed that shooting suspects are increasingly using language that incorporates the Stand Your Ground defense, making it more difficult for prosecutors to get convictions for shootings.

[bigkid]

That's not stand your ground.

[240 is Back]

That's not stand your ground.

Correct.  MAYBE he can claim self-defense... maybe he thought that gun would come out, maybe he feared for his life (but didn't have any injuries).  His credibility is already shot, since he denied any involvement initially.

It's two armed guys... One cut thru another's yard.  Dude chased him down and they had a confrontation.  Only one pulled a gun, the shooter.  the other was found with one in his pants, but it never came out and/or someone put it there.

LYING to the police about ANY involvement really looks bad.  Climbing a fence to chase someone down... hardly standing ground, lol. 

[Thick Nick]

Isn't it odd that none of these guys in someone else's yard, breaking into houses, sucker punching people, etc. ever are actually breaking any laws what so ever?

I mean, if you listen to witnesses, family, the perps themselves... they were just innocently walking down the street and accidentally punched whitey in the face. His whitey face actually hit THIER fist.

They are good kids. They didn't deserve to be shot... or even talked to by the police.

It's like 100% of the time. They are ALL innocent of ANY wrongdoing at all. This cannot be coincidence. It must be true. 

[240 is Back]

Aside from the "public easement" rule, it appears the fence was the path to a neighboring apartment complex (where the shooting victim lived)?

Shooter says he never saw a gun.  He just felt threatened.

Witnesses say zero attempt to steal or break in, dude was just walking through.

Now, I think the trayvon shooting was legal - Even though zimmerman created the confrontation by chasing him 2 blocks, even a person that STARTS a fight can shoot if he wants to exit it, under FL law.  Messed up, but hey, it's the law.

in THIS case, dude didn't see a gun.  Kid did nothing but walk thru the yard then jump a fence.  Post a sign and tie a dog out there or something.  IMO, the fact he had security cameras, and he was watching, meant he was just waiting for some shit to go down.  They charged him with 2nd degree murder.  He lied about being there at all, then later confessed. 

I tell ya, the shitty thing is that the pendulum will swing... enough of these idiots open fire when they don't have to, and they'll start restricting gun rights 

[Thick Nick]

Aside from the "public easement" rule, it appears the fence was the path to a neighboring apartment complex (where the shooting victim lived)?

Shooter says he never saw a gun.  He just felt threatened.

Witnesses say zero attempt to steal or break in, dude was just walking through.

Now, I think the trayvon shooting was legal - Even though zimmerman created the confrontation by chasing him 2 blocks, even a person that STARTS a fight can shoot if he wants to exit it, under FL law.  Messed up, but hey, it's the law.

in THIS case, dude didn't see a gun.  Kid did nothing but walk thru the yard then jump a fence.  Post a sign and tie a dog out there or something.  IMO, the fact he had security cameras, and he was watching, meant he was just waiting for some shit to go down.  They charged him with 2nd degree murder.  He lied about being there at all, then later confessed. 

I tell ya, the shitty thing is that the pendulum will swing... enough of these idiots open fire when they don't have to, and they'll start restricting gun rights 

Yep. Like I said. He was just walking through. Just like the other 100%. It is far more believable that every shooter is just a crazed person who wants to shoot them for waking by, then any of them doing anything wrong ever. Far more believable.

I'll wait to see the pictures of him from when he was ten, and his family saying how he was such a good kid. That again is much more credible then the inevitable police record that will surface. That record will be utter bullshit.

[SF1900]

Yep. Like I said. He was just walking through. Just like the other 100%. It is far more believable that every shooter is just a crazed person who wants to shoot them for waking by, then any of them doing anything wrong ever. Far more believable.

I'll wait to see the pictures of him from when he was ten, and his family saying how he was such a good kid. That again is much more credible then the inevitable police record that will surface. That record will be utter bullshit.

Your points dont matter. The fact is that he was leaving his yard and was chased down and shot. Stop ignoring that HUGE part of the story. Different story if the kid was in the mans house or trying to break. Kid was already leaving and he was chased down.

[Thick Nick]

Your points dont matter. The fact is that he was leaving his yard and was chased down and shot. Stop ignoring that HUGE part of the story. Different story if the kid was in the mans house or trying to break. Kid was already leaving and he was chased down.

Hey I'm with you. I mean they always are just sweet innocent kids who some crazy whitey decided to shoot for no reason.  There is always some huge part of the story to ignore. You just think I'm ignoring the wrong thing.

Like everyone else, I choose to ignore his criminal background when it comes out. I choose to ignore the fact that these poor kids are on other people properties, or in their houses, or their hands accidentally are bumping into peoples faces.

You got to ignore the irrelevant stuff.

[Thick Nick]

Oh yeah don't forget to ignore the police resisters too. Those guys are always innocent too and some crazy cop decides to shoot them for NO reason at all. Their kicking and punching... Or knives... Were never gonna hurt anyone. Got to ignore that too.

[SF1900]

Hey I'm with you. I mean they always are just sweet innocent kids who some crazy whitey decided to shoot for no reason.  There is always some huge part of the story to ignore. You just think I'm ignoring the wrong thing.

Like everyone else, I choose to ignore his criminal background when it comes out. I choose to ignore the fact that these poor kids are on other people properties, or in their houses, or their hands accidentally are bumping into peoples faces.

You got to ignore the irrelevant stuff.

The fact that he may be a criminal has nothing to do with the fact that he was chased down and killed. By your logic, we should just kill everyone who looks suspicious and has a criminal past because they MIGHT be committing a crime.

I am not ignoring the part that he may have a criminal background. Even if he does have a criminal background, the fact of the matter is that he was chased down and murdered. If we go by your rule, we should just kill anyone who hops into our yard and flees because, well, they may have a criminal background. Even if the guy is 10 houses down, just blast him away.

[Palpatine Q]

Correct.  MAYBE he can claim self-defense... maybe he thought that gun would come out, maybe he feared for his life (but didn't have any injuries).  His credibility is already shot, since he denied any involvement initially.

It's two armed guys... One cut thru another's yard.  Dude chased him down and they had a confrontation.  Only one pulled a gun, the shooter.  the other was found with one in his pants, but it never came out and/or someone put it there.

LYING to the police about ANY involvement really looks bad.  Climbing a fence to chase someone down... hardly standing ground, lol. 

Cutting through his yard..with a gun...okey dokey.

[240 is Back]

Cutting through his yard..with a gun...okey dokey.

1.2 million people in Florida carry guns using a permit.  Other carry it legally because of other reasons.

Some of these people are going to cut through yards.  There were witnesses.   it was on security camera.  Dude's worst crime was trespassing, and even that is iffy, particularly given the apartment aspect.

Methinks this guy was shady already - he lied to police about the shooting.  He chased a kid down, shot him without seeing a gun, ran home, and lied once police tracked him down. 

[Thick Nick]

The fact that he may be a criminal has nothing to do with the fact that he was chased down and killed. By your logic, we should just kill everyone who looks suspicious and has a criminal past because they MIGHT be committing a crime.

I am not ignoring the part that he may have a criminal background. Even if he does have a criminal background, the fact of the matter is that he was chased down and murdered. If we go by your rule, we should just kill anyone who hops into our yard and flees because, well, they may have a criminal background. Even if the guy is 10 houses down, just blast him away.

You misunderstand. Of course THIS guy with a criminal background (speculating of course) wasn't doing anything wrong. Like I said. It is more believable that he got shot for no reason. 

[Thick Nick]

1.2 million people in Florida carry guns using a permit.  Other carry it legally because of other reasons.

Some of these people are going to cut through yards.  There were witnesses.   it was on security camera.  Dude's worst crime was trespassing, and even that is iffy, particularly given the apartment aspect.

Methinks this guy was shady already - he lied to police about the shooting.  He chased a kid down, shot him without seeing a gun, ran home, and lied once police tracked him down.  

See 240 gets it. I mean just because he might have had a gun... Might have priors...Might have been in someone else's yard... The white shooter is clearly the shady one. It's all there for fucks sake. It couldn't be any clearer.

[Palpatine Q]

1.2 million people in Florida carry guns using a permit.  Other carry it legally because of other reasons.

Some of these people are going to cut through yards.  There were witnesses.   it was on security camera.  Dude's worst crime was trespassing, and even that is iffy, particularly given the apartment aspect.

Methinks this guy was shady already - he lied to police about the shooting.  He chased a kid down, shot him without seeing a gun, ran home, and lied once police tracked him down. 

I hear you.

But anything said at this point is purely specualtion.

My only point is you say "cutting through his yard" like its some kid on his way home from school

Legally he's an armed tresspasser.

Who knows what went down.

[240 is Back]

I hear you.

But anything said at this point is purely specualtion.

My only point is you say "cutting through his yard" like its some kid on his way home from school

Legally he's an armed tresspasser.

Who knows what went down.

He was no longer an armed trespasser once he cleared that fence.

At that point, like it or not, the homeowner has to STOP himself, and call 911 if he wants to report it.

I see he already had security cameras, and he was inside watching.  If you live in a shitty neighborhood where you need this - Get a dog.  Get a bigger fence.  Dig holes in your yard, I dunno lol. 

But you just can't run after someone and shoot them.  The shooter knew that.  That's why he lied about it, when police asked.  Dude knew the shoot wasn't legal.  I can sympathize with him - he wanted to know who the kid was, he wanted to yell at him, etc.  I get that. But under FL law, you can't shoot him for trespassing once he's run away.

[SF1900]

You misunderstand. Of course THIS guy with a criminal background (speculating of course) wasn't doing anything wrong. Like I said. It is more believable that he got shot for no reason. 

Great, all speculation. Him running away and fleeing the guys yard is not a crime. Is there any evidence that he was caught committing a crime? As of now, all you have is speculation. Until you or anyone can prove that he was committing a crime, he was gunned down AFTER fleeing the mans yard. Your thought that "it is more believe that he got shot for no reason" means absolutely jack shit until you can prove he was doing something wrong.

As for getting shot for no reason..............well, its Florida, so it would not surprise me

[Palpatine Q]

He was no longer an armed trespasser once he cleared that fence.

At that point, like it or not, the homeowner has to STOP himself, and call 911 if he wants to report it.

I see he already had security cameras, and he was inside watching.  If you live in a shitty neighborhood where you need this - Get a dog.  Get a bigger fence.  Dig holes in your yard, I dunno lol. 

But you just can't run after someone and shoot them.  The shooter knew that.  That's why he lied about it, when police asked.  Dude knew the shoot wasn't legal.  I can sympathize with him - he wanted to know who the kid was, he wanted to yell at him, etc.  I get that. But under FL law, you can't shoot him for trespassing once he's run away.

All good points.

Where it will get funny is the defendants state of mind...he saw someone in his yard. At this point he can justify all sorts of shit due to fearing for his life. The fact the guy was packing makes it easier to sell.

Should be a good one...LOL.

[Thick Nick]

He was no longer an armed trespasser once he cleared that fence.

At that point, like it or not, the homeowner has to STOP himself, and call 911 if he wants to report it.

I see he already had security cameras, and he was inside watching.  If you live in a shitty neighborhood where you need this - Get a dog.  Get a bigger fence.  Dig holes in your yard, I dunno lol. 

But you just can't run after someone and shoot them.  The shooter knew that.  That's why he lied about it, when police asked.  Dude knew the shoot wasn't legal.  I can sympathize with him - he wanted to know who the kid was, he wanted to yell at him, etc.  I get that. But under FL law, you can't shoot him for trespassing once he's run away.

Yes sir. The homeowner should get a dog, dig holes, or get bigger fence that way the these poor innocent children won't be shot by them. It will keep these crazy shooters inside and away from these innocent children. These poor innocent criminals have no responsibility at all to do anything... It's all about what the homeowner can do to prevent killing any more innocents.

[Thick Nick]

Great, all speculation. Him running away and fleeing the guys yard is not a crime. Is there any evidence that he was caught committing a crime? As of now, all you have is speculation. Until you or anyone can prove that he was committing a crime, he was gunned down AFTER fleeing the mans yard. Your thought that "it is more believe that he got shot for no reason" means absolutely jack shit until you can prove he was doing something wrong.

As for getting shot for no reason..............well, its Florida, so it would not surprise me

Man I'm with you 100%. It's always speculation right up until these criminal whitey shooters get off all the time. These poor kids keep dieing for no good reason, and then a jury has the unmitigated gual to put these horrible shooters back on the street. It is bullshit man. Horrible injustice every single time.

[SF1900]

Man I'm with you 100%. It's always speculation right up until these criminal whitey shooters get off all the time. These poor kids keep dieing for no good reason, and then a jury has the unmitigated gual to put these horrible shooters back on the street. It is bullshit man. Horrible injustice every single time.

Epic sarcasm because has no defense in return.

[240 is Back]

Wow.... He caught the guy, and tried to drag him back into his yard to call police.
He shot him in the back repeatedly.  Then he threw away his video equipment and lied to police.


In a case with echoes of the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman incident, a Florida man concerned over a rash of neighborhood burglaries is reportedly claiming self-defense after he chased, confronted, and killed a young man who was wearing baggy pants and a hooded sweatshirt whom he found suspicious.

The Orlando Sentinel reports that Claudius Angloricardo Smith, 32, is charged with second-degree murder and is being held without bond for killing 21-year-old Ricardo Sanes last Thursday, at The Fountains at MetroWest, an apartment complex in west Orlando.

Ricardo Sanes
Ricardo Sanes (facebook photo)

But Sanes who, from his facebook page, appears to be the father of a young son, wasn’t carrying a bag of Skittles and iced tea. Police found that he was armed, with a .40 caliber handgun in the crotch of his pants. He sustained bullet wounds to the upper back and back of his neck.

When police told Smith about the wounds, he reportedly claimed they must have been exit wounds. He also claimed he didn’t know Sanes had a gun before the police told him.

Claudius Smith
Claudius Angloricardo Smith (Orange County Jail mug shot)

According to police reports obtained by the Orlando Sentinel, Smith’s girlfriend, watching a video surveillance screen, spotted someone in dark clothing “walking around his yard,” who “was last seen climbing over the fence into” the apartment complex.

Smith told police he had “a recent problem with burglaries at his house…and he was certain the unknown male was responsible, so he began chasing the unknown male.”

According to police, Smith, who has a concealed-carry permit, said he jumped a fence into the complex, armed with a .45-caliber handgun, and saw Sanes “looking into windows of apartments as he walked past them.”

Smith said he pulled his gun and confronted Sanes, who tried to walk away, so he grabbed Sanes’ hooded sweatshirt and tried to force him back to his house “so the police could be called.”

Smith told police Sanes “punched him in the mouth and grabbed for the gun, so he pulled the trigger. Smith said he was afraid Sanes was armed “because his pants were falling down and his hands were in his hoodie pockets.”

Smith’s sister reportedly claimed he was so distraught that he was “crying and vomiting” after the shooting, when he told her he had shot somebody. But not only did he leave the scene of the shooting, but he discarded the murder weapon, and couldn’t give a reasonable explanation for either action.

Smith also claimed to have surveillance video he said “would prove this was the second time Sanes had tried to break into his house” in 10 days. But when police got there, the video recorder was gone, and Smith claimed he didn’t know who removed it or why

The similarities to the Trayvon Martin shooting are obvious — both Martin and Sanes wore hoodies. And both shooters claimed concern over recent burglaries, both went after the victims, both said they were attacked first, and both said they fired their guns in self-defense.

Yet, Smith’s argument is weaker: Sanes was shot from behind; Martin was shot in his chest, and Smith reportedly admitted to physically restraining the person he suspected at gunpoint. Zimmerman didn’t.

[Thick Nick]

Epic sarcasm.

Thank you. But what makes you think I'm being sarcastic? I'm just listening to the people man. These poor kids are always good, honest, hard working kids who wear hoodies, and just happen to be in the vicinity of one these crazy ass shooters. Be it in their yards or houses etc. it is simply unfortunate wrong place wrong time. Every time the good ones are getting shot too... Always the good kids. Their families always say so.

[Thick Nick]

Nevermind. Both blackies. Throw him in jail. Win - Win.