Author Topic: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage  (Read 8185 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2015, 02:10:31 PM »
You'd be surprised at what a traditional guy I am.

Cool.  We probably have a lot in common. 

Except for that whole sleeping with dudes thing.  lol   :D

Skip8282

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2015, 03:08:05 PM »
I never bought the idea that we are denying marriage.  A man could always marry a woman and woman could always marry a man.  But I get that we are way beyond that now in society.

I like a lot of what libertarians believe in, but I don't embrace that pure form of essentially anything goes.  We should draw bright lines in some areas.  We should promote and protect things that are healthiest for kids and families.  I don't think there is any question that a male-female two-parent household is the ideal way to raise kids.  Not everyone can take advantage of that (including me who grew up with divorced parents), but from a public policy standpoint, we ought to promote things that we know are most beneficial to kids and families. 

Men and women are different.  We bring different qualities to the table.  Boys need fathers.  Women need mothers.  Kids need both parents.  But there is no denying that genders provide different, positive things that kids need.  What we are doing now is saying those things don't matter. 




So, to play devils advocate, let's assume I accept your premise, then why try to legislate the 'ideal'.  You've noted you didn't grow up with the ideal.  I didn't grow up with the ideal.  Why try to force it on others?  You seem to have turned out fine.  I think I'm ok, lol.

As long as two gay people are loving and caring to each other and the children, I don't see an issue.  It might not be ideal, but having loving parents is certainly better than nothing.


Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2015, 03:59:34 PM »
I never bought the idea that we are denying marriage.  A man could always marry a woman and woman could always marry a man.  But I get that we are way beyond that now in society.

I like a lot of what libertarians believe in, but I don't embrace that pure form of essentially anything goes.  We should draw bright lines in some areas.  We should promote and protect things that are healthiest for kids and families.  I don't think there is any question that a male-female two-parent household is the ideal way to raise kids.  Not everyone can take advantage of that (including me who grew up with divorced parents), but from a public policy standpoint, we ought to promote things that we know are most beneficial to kids and families. 

Men and women are different.  We bring different qualities to the table.  Boys need fathers.  Women need mothers.  Kids need both parents.  But there is no denying that genders provide different, positive things that kids need.  What we are doing now is saying those things don't matter. 

yeah

great point

gay people just can't marry the person that they love and want to be with but that's not "denying them marriage"

I wonder why gay people can't understand this

all they have to to is be heterosexual and then they can get married

problem solved

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2015, 04:21:52 PM »

So, to play devils advocate, let's assume I accept your premise, then why try to legislate the 'ideal'.  You've noted you didn't grow up with the ideal.  I didn't grow up with the ideal.  Why try to force it on others?  You seem to have turned out fine.  I think I'm ok, lol.

As long as two gay people are loving and caring to each other and the children, I don't see an issue.  It might not be ideal, but having loving parents is certainly better than nothing.



Your first mistake is thinking I turned out fine.  I'm crazy.  lol   :D

Seriously, I think we should always try and promote the "ideal" in public policy.  That doesn't there are no other paths to success.  Sure there are.  Some are more difficult than others. 

I do think two homosexual parents can raise a perfectly normal, healthy child.  But from a public policy standpoint, is that something we want to encourage? 

Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2015, 04:45:47 PM »
Your first mistake is thinking I turned out fine.  I'm crazy.  lol   :D

Seriously, I think we should always try and promote the "ideal" in public policy.  That doesn't there are no other paths to success.  Sure there are.  Some are more difficult than others.  

I do think two homosexual parents can raise a perfectly normal, healthy child.  But from a public policy standpoint, is that something we want to encourage?

yes, why wouldn't we want to encourage both gay and straight couples to raise perfectly normal, healthy children

it's not like public policy is making them gay

God did that


Primemuscle

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2015, 04:49:32 PM »
yeah

great point

gay people just can't marry the person that they love and want to be with but that's not "denying them marriage"

I wonder why gay people can't understand this

all they have to to is be heterosexual and then they can get married

problem solved

There are legal reasons and some advantages for two people to marry, regardless whether it is a gay or straight marriage.

Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2015, 04:51:39 PM »
There are legal reasons and some advantages for two people to marry, regardless whether it is a gay or straight marriage.

yep, and according to Bum gay people are not being denied those legal reason and advantages (i.e. not being denied the ability to marry)

so there is no problem


Skip8282

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2015, 05:58:28 PM »
Your first mistake is thinking I turned out fine.  I'm crazy.  lol   :D

Seriously, I think we should always try and promote the "ideal" in public policy.  That doesn't there are no other paths to success.  Sure there are.  Some are more difficult than others. 

I do think two homosexual parents can raise a perfectly normal, healthy child.  But from a public policy standpoint, is that something we want to encourage? 




I'm thinking the ideal in public policy really only works when it's truly applicable to everyone.  For example, everybody should brush & floss, everybody should avoid morbid obesity, everybody should have regular eye exams.

But, not everybody should marry a member of the opposite sex.


Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2015, 06:27:19 PM »



I'm thinking the ideal in public policy really only works when it's truly applicable to everyone.  For example, everybody should brush & floss, everybody should avoid morbid obesity, everybody should have regular eye exams.

But, not everybody should marry a member of the opposite sex.



That's actually a good example.  Our public policy should promote brushing, flossing, healthy diets, and preventive medicine.  That said, some people who never floss and don't brush regularly can still have healthy teeth and gums.  People who eat lots of junk food and don't train regularly can still be in decent physical condition.  There are some who never go to the doctor for anything and are still healthy as a horse. 

That doesn't mean we should start promoting those things. 

Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2015, 07:28:29 PM »
That's actually a good example.  Our public policy should promote brushing, flossing, healthy diets, and preventive medicine.  That said, some people who never floss and don't brush regularly can still have healthy teeth and gums.  People who eat lots of junk food and don't train regularly can still be in decent physical condition.  There are some who never go to the doctor for anything and are still healthy as a horse.  

That doesn't mean we should start promoting those things.  

nor do we make them illegal or prevent people from choosing them and next time you turn on your TV see if you think we having any shortage of the promotion of eating lots of junk food (not just in our commercials but in our TV shows)






Agnostic007

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2015, 09:07:42 PM »
I agree that what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms doesn't hurt anyone.  The difference is we're using the government to force things on people and society, so we're not talking about a purely private matter.  

I guess the next question becomes what harm does it do to society if we redefine marriage?  The answer is TBD. We are undermining one of bedrocks of our society (marriage between and a man and woman).  I don't think good things will happen at the end of the day when the dust settles.  We've seen some of the fallout already, with some small business owners being attacked.  

But one thing is certain:  it's coming.  I've been saying that for years.  Society has changed.  

When you say "we" you mean heterosexual christians with a divorce rate of over 50% right?  I think the argument is lost for the "bedrock of society" when divorce is more likely than staying married and republican law makers get caught cheating. Time to put that argument in the closet.. no pun intended 

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2015, 12:20:16 PM »
When you say "we" you mean heterosexual christians with a divorce rate of over 50% right?  I think the argument is lost for the "bedrock of society" when divorce is more likely than staying married and republican law makers get caught cheating. Time to put that argument in the closet.. no pun intended 

When I say "we" I mean Amercicans, both religious and non-religious. 

The divorce rate doesn't diminish the institution of marriage between a man and a woman, and all of the benefits it provides to kids.  It just shows that people sometimes do a poor job of selecting their life partner. 

Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2015, 12:45:51 PM »
When I say "we" I mean Amercicans, both religious and non-religious. 

The divorce rate doesn't diminish the institution of marriage between a man and a woman, and all of the benefits it provides to kids.  It just shows that people sometimes do a poor job of selecting their life partner. 

or

the divorce rate among all kinds of couples most definitely diminishes the "institution" of marriage where as merely letting gay people also get married does nothing to diminish the institution of marriage one iota

failed marriages diminish the institution

more people getting married does not harm it and may actually strengthen it

Primemuscle

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2015, 11:51:14 PM »
When I say "we" I mean Amercicans, both religious and non-religious.  

The divorce rate doesn't diminish the institution of marriage between a man and a woman, and all of the benefits it provides to kids.  It just shows that people sometimes do a poor job of selecting their life partner.  

Did you mean to say often times and not sometimes?

About 40 to 50 percent of married couples in the United States divorce. The divorce rate for subsequent marriages is even higher.

Howard is a prime example of the divorce rate in subsequent marriages. -No offense to Howard.

Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2015, 11:16:39 AM »
Did you mean to say often times and not sometimes?

About 40 to 50 percent of married couples in the United States divorce. The divorce rate for subsequent marriages is even higher.

Howard is a prime example of the divorce rate in subsequent marriages. -No offense to Howard.

don't forget that devout, vertically and intellectually challenged tire flipper

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2015, 11:45:10 AM »
Did you mean to say often times and not sometimes?

About 40 to 50 percent of married couples in the United States divorce. The divorce rate for subsequent marriages is even higher.

Howard is a prime example of the divorce rate in subsequent marriages. -No offense to Howard.

Sometimes, oftentimes, doesn't really matter.  The point is people make mistakes when it comes to marriage.  Those mistakes don't diminish the institution itself and all that it has to offer. 

I don't know who Howard is or why his marriage says anything about the institution of marriage itself. 

Primemuscle

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2015, 12:37:00 PM »
Sometimes, oftentimes, doesn't really matter.  The point is people make mistakes when it comes to marriage.  Those mistakes don't diminish the institution itself and all that it has to offer. 

I don't know who Howard is or why his marriage says anything about the institution of marriage itself. 

If you don't know who Howard is, why are you commenting on his many marriages and what they say or don't say about the institution of marriage?

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2015, 12:40:32 PM »
If you don't know who Howard is, why are you commenting on his many marriages and what they say or don't say about the institution of marriage?

What you talkin bout Willis?  Who the heck is Howard? 

Primemuscle

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2015, 05:28:09 PM »
What you talkin bout Willis?  Who the heck is Howard? 

Being as how you're a moderator, you should know how to look him up. He's been a member of Getbig since 2003. Howard is his handle.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2015, 08:21:02 PM »
Being as how you're a moderator, you should know how to look him up. He's been a member of Getbig since 2003. Howard is his handle.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.  I have no idea who Howard is.  I did not mention anyone named Howard.  I have no idea how many times Howard has been married, nor do I care.  Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? 

Straw Man

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2015, 10:00:22 PM »
Being as how you're a moderator, you should know how to look him up. He's been a member of Getbig since 2003. Howard is his handle.

Bum is of course lying

not sure why, but he seems very comfortable when doing so




Primemuscle

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2015, 10:43:17 PM »
....I did not mention anyone named Howard.... 

You're right about that. I brought him up because he's somewhat known for his many marriages. I don't remember exactly how many. He seems happy with his current wife and that's what counts, I guess.

Skip8282

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2015, 04:50:12 AM »
That's actually a good example.  Our public policy should promote brushing, flossing, healthy diets, and preventive medicine.  That said, some people who never floss and don't brush regularly can still have healthy teeth and gums.  People who eat lots of junk food and don't train regularly can still be in decent physical condition.  There are some who never go to the doctor for anything and are still healthy as a horse. 

That doesn't mean we should start promoting those things. 




Nope.  If you don't floss, you won't have healthy teeth.  If you lot's of junk food, you won't be healthy (sounds like a fat acceptance argument).  May take time to catch up to a person, but the result is the same.

Again, promoting the ideal generally only works if it's truly applicable to everyone.  And one man, one woman is not truly applicable to everyone.


Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2015, 12:04:51 PM »
You're right about that. I brought him up because he's somewhat known for his many marriages. I don't remember exactly how many. He seems happy with his current wife and that's what counts, I guess.

No worries. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Bobby Jindal: I知 Holding Firm Against Gay Marriage
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2015, 12:05:52 PM »



Nope.  If you don't floss, you won't have healthy teeth.  If you lot's of junk food, you won't be healthy (sounds like a fat acceptance argument).  May take time to catch up to a person, but the result is the same.

Again, promoting the ideal generally only works if it's truly applicable to everyone.  And one man, one woman is not truly applicable to everyone.



Not necessarily.  I'm sure there are people who don't floss who have healthy teeth.  Not everyone who eats a lot of junk food is unhealthy.