Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[Griffith]

I posted a few weeks ago that I sold my blips. I'm still waiting for the bank transfer to clear from one of the top exchanges lmao.

But they're the latest technology they say, going to take over gold/cash/the world but you just got to hodl.

 

Remember the 'technical difficulties' many of the exchanges were having when people wanted to sell in the previous crash? People were unable to sell even though they wanted to and the price was falling.

Some were even limiting the amount people could withdraw. Many still do limit daily withdrawal amounts.

[Mayday]

Remember the 'technical difficulties' many of the exchanges were having when people wanted to sell in the previous crash? People were unable to sell even though they wanted to and the price was falling.

Some were even limiting the amount people could withdraw. Many still do limit daily withdrawal amounts.

The exchange I do limits it unless you input more identification which I have done because I am tracked by the tax authority anyway.

The larger holders don’t keep their BTC on exchanges, but they are long term moves.

It’s a benefit for the long play because these limits, ups and downs don’t impact me if I’m in it for another 9yrs.

if it does take off I’d assume many exchanges today will get shut down as the banks take control. That adds stability.

[polychronopolous]

Bridgewater’s Ray Dalio Softens Stance on Bitcoin, Says It Has Place in Investors’ Portfolios

Ray Dalio, the founder of the world’s largest hedge fund, Bridgewater Associates, has offered a more positive stance on bitcoin than in comments that made headlines last month.

In a Reddit Ask Me Anything (AMA) on Tuesday, Dalio said he thought bitcoin (BTC, +1.55%) and other cryptocurrencies had “established themselves” over the last 10 years and were interesting “gold-like asset alternatives.”

The billionaire hedge-fund manager also noted that cryptocurrencies share similarities and differences to gold and various “limited-supply, mobile (unlike real estate) storeholds of wealth.”

Bitcoin “could serve as a diversifier to gold and other such storehold of wealth assets,” said Dalio. “The main thing is to have some of these type of assets … including stocks, in one’s portfolio and to diversify among them."

Dalio comments are a deviation from a month ago when he said there are three main problems with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies: a lack of venues accepting digital assets as payment, price volatility and the potential for governments to “outlaw” them.

During the AMA, Dalio also said, when comparing bitcoin to gold, he had a “strong preference” for assets central banks will want to hold and use to exchange value.

https://www.coindesk.com/bridgewaters-ray-dalio-softens-stance-on-bitcoin-says-it-has-place-in-investors-portfolios

[gib]

Bridgewater’s Ray Dalio Softens Stance on Bitcoin, Says It Has Place in Investors’ Portfolios

Ray Dalio, the founder of the world’s largest hedge fund, Bridgewater Associates, has offered a more positive stance on bitcoin than in comments that made headlines last month.

In a Reddit Ask Me Anything (AMA) on Tuesday, Dalio said he thought bitcoin (BTC, +1.55%) and other cryptocurrencies had “established themselves” over the last 10 years and were interesting “gold-like asset alternatives.”

The billionaire hedge-fund manager also noted that cryptocurrencies share similarities and differences to gold and various “limited-supply, mobile (unlike real estate) storeholds of wealth.”

Bitcoin “could serve as a diversifier to gold and other such storehold of wealth assets,” said Dalio. “The main thing is to have some of these type of assets … including stocks, in one’s portfolio and to diversify among them."

Dalio comments are a deviation from a month ago when he said there are three main problems with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies: a lack of venues accepting digital assets as payment, price volatility and the potential for governments to “outlaw” them.

During the AMA, Dalio also said, when comparing bitcoin to gold, he had a “strong preference” for assets central banks will want to hold and use to exchange value.

https://www.coindesk.com/bridgewaters-ray-dalio-softens-stance-on-bitcoin-says-it-has-place-in-investors-portfolios

Quite significant if Dalio finally acknowledges the legitimacy of BTC. He is a huge advocate for gold, so getting him "on-board" has always been seen as the holy-grail for Bitcoin economists who believe BTC is superior to gold in terms of a hedge against fiat currency devaluation. If his fund ever makes an allocation to BTC this will be huge news and have huge ripple effects.

[polychronopolous]

JPMorgan Says Gold Will Suffer for Years Because of Bitcoin

Bank says investor adoption of Bitcoin has only just started
 
Gold ETFs are bleeding cash while Bitcoin funds absorb flows


The rise of cryptocurrencies in mainstream finance is coming at the expense of gold, says JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Money has poured into Bitcoin funds and out of gold since October, a trend that’s only going to continue in the long run as more institutional investors take a position in cryptocurrencies, according to the bank’s quantitative strategists including Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou.

JPMorgan is one of the few Wall Street banks that’s predicting a major shift in gold and crypto markets as digital currencies become increasingly popular as an asset class. The trend poses a problem for bulls in precious metals markets over the coming years if investors move, even a small slice, of their allocations away from gold and into crypto.

“The adoption of bitcoin by institutional investors has only begun, while for gold its adoption by institutional investors is very advanced,” wrote the JPMorgan strategists.

The Grayscale Bitcoin Trust, a listed security popular with institutions, has seen inflows of almost $2 billion since October, compared with outflows of $7 billion for exchange-traded funds backed by gold, according to JPMorgan.

JPMorgan’s calculations suggest Bitcoin only accounts for 0.18% of family office assets, compared with 3.3% for gold ETFs. Tilting the needle from gold to bitcoin would represent the transfer of billions in cash.

One way to play the theme is buying one unit of Grayscale and selling three units of the SPDR Gold Trust, the bank said.

“If this medium to longer term thesis proves right, the price of gold would suffer from a structural flow headwind over the coming years,” wrote JPMorgan’s strategists.

In the short term though, there’s a good chance that Bitcoin prices have overshot and gold is due for a recovery, the bank said. For Bitcoin, momentum signals have deteriorated, which will likely cause selling by investors that trade on price trends.

Bitcoin has fallen 6% since closing at an all-time high of $19,462.14 last week.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-09/jpmorgan-says-gold-will-suffer-for-years-because-of-bitcoin

[gib]

JPMorgan Says Gold Will Suffer for Years Because of Bitcoin

Bank says investor adoption of Bitcoin has only just started
 
Gold ETFs are bleeding cash while Bitcoin funds absorb flows


The rise of cryptocurrencies in mainstream finance is coming at the expense of gold, says JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Money has poured into Bitcoin funds and out of gold since October, a trend that’s only going to continue in the long run as more institutional investors take a position in cryptocurrencies, according to the bank’s quantitative strategists including Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou.

JPMorgan is one of the few Wall Street banks that’s predicting a major shift in gold and crypto markets as digital currencies become increasingly popular as an asset class. The trend poses a problem for bulls in precious metals markets over the coming years if investors move, even a small slice, of their allocations away from gold and into crypto.

“The adoption of bitcoin by institutional investors has only begun, while for gold its adoption by institutional investors is very advanced,” wrote the JPMorgan strategists.

The Grayscale Bitcoin Trust, a listed security popular with institutions, has seen inflows of almost $2 billion since October, compared with outflows of $7 billion for exchange-traded funds backed by gold, according to JPMorgan.

JPMorgan’s calculations suggest Bitcoin only accounts for 0.18% of family office assets, compared with 3.3% for gold ETFs. Tilting the needle from gold to bitcoin would represent the transfer of billions in cash.

One way to play the theme is buying one unit of Grayscale and selling three units of the SPDR Gold Trust, the bank said.

“If this medium to longer term thesis proves right, the price of gold would suffer from a structural flow headwind over the coming years,” wrote JPMorgan’s strategists.

In the short term though, there’s a good chance that Bitcoin prices have overshot and gold is due for a recovery, the bank said. For Bitcoin, momentum signals have deteriorated, which will likely cause selling by investors that trade on price trends.

Bitcoin has fallen 6% since closing at an all-time high of $19,462.14 last week.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-09/jpmorgan-says-gold-will-suffer-for-years-because-of-bitcoin

Poor old Mr Anabolic with his gold and its relative value to BTC fading away.

BTC's marketcap is around 1/40th of gold at present, meaning that even a 1% move from gold to BTC as a store of value pushes up BTC's value far more in % terms due to its size. When BTC equates to gold's current market cap, that translates into a 40x gain in value putting BTC at around $720,000 per coin.

BTC has so many advantages over gold in terms of limited supply, transferability, divisibility, security, etc let alone the fact that the entire new generation of the world is living in a digital world. Let's see. (At least a gold brick could be used for a door stopped, or as a weight to lift. They are damn heavy to move around. Even for a man of my strength.

[polychronopolous]

169-Year-Old MassMutual Invests $100 Million in Bitcoin


Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co. has purchased $100 million in Bitcoin for its general investment fund, the latest mainstream firm to dabble in digit assets.

The mutual insurer also acquired a $5 million minority equity stake in NYDIG, a subsidiary of Stone Ridge that provides cryptocurrency services to institutions, according to a statement. NYDIG, which already keeps more than $2.3 billion in crypto assets for clients, will provide custody services for MassMutual’s Bitcoins.

MassMutual, which has been around since 1851, is the latest company to invest in the largest cryptocurrency. MicroStrategy Inc. has expanded its investments into the coin, and Square Inc. has poured money into the world’s most popular cryptocurrency as well amid talk of growing institutional adoption and demand.

The investment in Bitcoin will represent 0.04% of the general investment account of nearly $235 billion as of Sept. 30, MassMutual said. “We see this initial investment as a first step, and like any investment, may explore future opportunities,” spokeswoman Chelsea Haraty said in a email.

Bitcoin has more than doubled in price this year, and hit an all-time high earlier this month. Advocates say that Bitcoin is a kind of digital gold, likely to retain its value during times of turmoil and as a hedge against inflation despite the historical volatility of the cryptocurrency.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/169-year-old-insurer-massmutual-invests-100-million-in-bitcoin

[gib]

One of Asia's largest retail banks announcement today:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/dbs-to-start-members-only-digital-exchange-for-cryptocurrencies#

As I have predicted, we will move through an adoption cycle, where over time larger players will embrace (primarily because they have not real option not to). This is going to open up the market to a wide range of hedge funds, pension funds, and HNW's / family offices in Asia, many of whom use Singapore as their Asia base. Expect to see the same in Hong Kong also, which is actually Asia's largest financial hub.

[Griffith]

How is Ripple?

I also see that Ethereum performed better than Bitcoin this year in terms of growth.

[gib]

How is Ripple?

I also see that Ethereum performed better than Bitcoin this year in terms of growth.

It is foolish to think that an imitator will succeed over BTC. BTC already has the critical mass, network effect, industry support, and many many powerful people and organizations incentivized to ensure it succeeds as the ultimate digital store of value. Most alts including Ripple and Eth are not decentralized, which is one of many major floors. Read my prior posts where I explain to Mr A the foolishness of looking at an alt crypto "because it cheaper".

Its like trying to predict an alt to Coca Cola, that may succeed against the real thing. Thousands of imitators try, get a little bit of traction, but eventually fail.

That is not to say, that an alt may over short periods outperform BTC. But very hard to time. So, as I have said many time before, buy BTC. HODL. Very simple.

Video of interest:

[Mayday]

Interesting to hear him make the same comments I do about gold not working.

Although if he read this thread he would understand why.

[obsidian]

It is foolish to think that an imitator will succeed over BTC. BTC already has the critical mass, network effect, industry support, and many many powerful people and organizations incentivized to ensure it succeeds as the ultimate digital store of value. Most alts including Ripple and Eth are not decentralized, which is one of many major floors. Read my prior posts where I explain to Mr A the foolishness of looking at an alt crypto "because it cheaper".

Its like trying to predict an alt to Coca Cola, that may succeed against the real thing. Thousands of imitators try, get a little bit of traction, but eventually fail.

That is not to say, that an alt may over short periods outperform BTC. But very hard to time. So, as I have said many time before, buy BTC. HODL. Very simple.

Video of interest:

Not succeed over BTC. They can coexist. There are others like me for example that are not interested in getting into BTC at the high point where it is right now. If BTC dropped down to 3K or less then maybe. So BTC's high price also holds it back a bit I think. We'll see where it all goes. I plan to get some BTC if ETH catches up a bit. I want to see a ratio of 1:10 or even 1:15. At that point I would get some BTC.

[gib]

Not succeed over BTC. They can coexist. There are others like me for example that are not interested in getting into BTC at the high point where it is right now. If BTC dropped down to 3K or less then maybe. So BTC's high price also holds it back a bit I think. We'll see where it all goes. I plan to get some BTC if ETH catches up a bit. I want to see a ratio of 1:10 or even 1:15. At that point I would get some BTC.

You are fooling yourself if you think BTC as at a "high price" and that others are cheaper. Is akin to idiots who buy "penny stocks as they are cheaper". (No offence intended here, I am genuinely trying to educate you).

 If it helps, just measure BTC in santoshies (as opposed to the value of an entire coin) and then you can convince yourself its "cheap".

The way any new currency evolves is that there is a collective agreement on what will be used as a store of value. Its ultimately a zero sum game. One crypto emerges as digital gold, the rest fail.

[gib]

Obsidian, can I suggest you take the time to listen to this. Its well well worth it. And then come back and tell me if your thinking has changed?

[Mayday]

Not succeed over BTC. They can coexist. There are others like me for example that are not interested in getting into BTC at the high point where it is right now. If BTC dropped down to 3K or less then maybe. So BTC's high price also holds it back a bit I think. We'll see where it all goes. I plan to get some BTC if ETH catches up a bit. I want to see a ratio of 1:10 or even 1:15. At that point I would get some BTC.

Energy for alt coins is very diluted vs 2017.

In 2017 there was 1700 coin options.

In 2020 there are 7,000+.

BTC is the only one at previous high. The others are way way behind. You won’t see the previous ratios again because non-BtC money is just traders looking for quick plays across 6,999 possible options.

[polychronopolous]

Not succeed over BTC. They can coexist. There are others like me for example that are not interested in getting into BTC at the high point where it is right now. If BTC dropped down to 3K or less then maybe. So BTC's high price also holds it back a bit I think. We'll see where it all goes. I plan to get some BTC if ETH catches up a bit. I want to see a ratio of 1:10 or even 1:15. At that point I would get some BTC.

Multi million and billion dollar businesses are buying Bitcoin and burying it deep into cold storage where it will not be touched for years. This is not 2018 where you had weak hands selling at the slightest bit of negative news or pullbacks. These companies have done their due diligence, they know what they own and they are going to hold onto it. Long term.

I would expect a supply crunch and a skyrocketing price much more than some massive crash. Anything less than 10k is a pipe dream and anything under 15k is also unlikely imo.

[polychronopolous]

JPMorgan predicts $600 billion from institutions will flow into Bitcoin


TL:DR Breakdown:

    JPMorgan recently stated that billions of dollars would soon flow from institutions to Bitcoin.

Following the recent Bitcoin investment by MassMutual, the bank predicted that more insurance companies are likely to follow suit.

It’s no longer a doubt that institutions and corporations will adopt Bitcoin (BTC), the largest crypto by market capitalization. In this year alone, many billion-dollar companies have been reported to buying a large amount of the cryptocurrency. Following the increasing rate of BTC adoption, the leading bank in the United States, JPMorgan Chase, opined that about $600 billion would possibly flow into the cryptocurrency from institutional investors.
JPMorgan foresees mainstream institutional adoption

According to JPMorgan, the $600 billion inflow to Bitcoin would come when pension funds and insurance companies in prominent places like Japan, United States, and Europe, allocate just one percent of their assets in the digital currency. The bank’s statement was stirred by the news that Massachusetts Mutual (MassMutual) invested $100 million in Bitcoin. The insurance company has more than $200 billion in its investment portfolio.
 
More companies in the space are likely to join the train, said JPMorgan. “MassMutual’s Bitcoin purchases represent another milestone in the Bitcoin adoption by institutional investors. One can see the potential demand that could arise over the coming years as other insurance companies and pension funds follow MassMutual’s example.”

The strategists at the bank sometimes noted that the institutional adoption of Bitcoin is only getting started.
Bitcoin corporate investors

Many companies bought a substantial amount of Bitcoin this year, with the lead company being MicroStrategy, which currently has over 40,000 BTC on its reserve. Square Inc. is another prominent company holding about $50 million in Bitcoin. According to the information on Bitcoin Treasury, there are about 15 publicly-traded companies holding Bitcoin in their reserve.

These include Galaxy Digital Holdings, Riot Blockchain, DigitalX, and more.

https://www.cryptopolitan.com/jpmorgan-billion-from-institutions-bitcoin/

[Mr Anabolic]

[obsidian]

You are fooling yourself if you think BTC as at a "high price" and that others are cheaper. Is akin to idiots who buy "penny stocks as they are cheaper". (No offence intended here, I am genuinely trying to educate you).

 If it helps, just measure BTC in santoshies (as opposed to the value of an entire coin) and then you can convince yourself its "cheap".

The way any new currency evolves is that there is a collective agreement on what will be used as a store of value. Its ultimately a zero sum game. One crypto emerges as digital gold, the rest fail.

If your position is that Ethereum is doomed and Bitcoin is the only one that's shooting to the moon I think you are delusional (no offense). Ethereum has a lot more development going on and proof of stake is not exactly going to hurt the price of Ethereum.

The price of Ethereum or Bitcoin will be whatever people value it to be. Proof of stake will reduce the supply of Ethereum because people will have an incentive not to sell their ETH.

Ethereum's value has increased by a larger percentage than Bitcoin's in 2020. Yes since 2017 it's still behind Bitcoin but the movement in 2020 is encouraging.

I think both will increase in value. We'll have to see by how much.

https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-outpaces-bitcoin-developer-activity-2020-electric-capital-report

[obsidian]

JPMorgan predicts $600 billion from institutions will flow into Bitcoin


TL:DR Breakdown:

    JPMorgan recently stated that billions of dollars would soon flow from institutions to Bitcoin.

Following the recent Bitcoin investment by MassMutual, the bank predicted that more insurance companies are likely to follow suit.

It’s no longer a doubt that institutions and corporations will adopt Bitcoin (BTC), the largest crypto by market capitalization. In this year alone, many billion-dollar companies have been reported to buying a large amount of the cryptocurrency. Following the increasing rate of BTC adoption, the leading bank in the United States, JPMorgan Chase, opined that about $600 billion would possibly flow into the cryptocurrency from institutional investors.
JPMorgan foresees mainstream institutional adoption

According to JPMorgan, the $600 billion inflow to Bitcoin would come when pension funds and insurance companies in prominent places like Japan, United States, and Europe, allocate just one percent of their assets in the digital currency. The bank’s statement was stirred by the news that Massachusetts Mutual (MassMutual) invested $100 million in Bitcoin. The insurance company has more than $200 billion in its investment portfolio.
 
More companies in the space are likely to join the train, said JPMorgan. “MassMutual’s Bitcoin purchases represent another milestone in the Bitcoin adoption by institutional investors. One can see the potential demand that could arise over the coming years as other insurance companies and pension funds follow MassMutual’s example.”

The strategists at the bank sometimes noted that the institutional adoption of Bitcoin is only getting started.
Bitcoin corporate investors

Many companies bought a substantial amount of Bitcoin this year, with the lead company being MicroStrategy, which currently has over 40,000 BTC on its reserve. Square Inc. is another prominent company holding about $50 million in Bitcoin. According to the information on Bitcoin Treasury, there are about 15 publicly-traded companies holding Bitcoin in their reserve.

These include Galaxy Digital Holdings, Riot Blockchain, DigitalX, and more.

https://www.cryptopolitan.com/jpmorgan-billion-from-institutions-bitcoin/

They are also buying Ethereum don't kid yourself.

https://www.ibtimes.com/bitcoin-price-prediction-btc-ethereum-surge-2021-frank-holmes-says-3097208

[obsidian]

Energy for alt coins is very diluted vs 2017.

In 2017 there was 1700 coin options.

In 2020 there are 7,000+.

BTC is the only one at previous high. The others are way way behind. You won’t see the previous ratios again because non-BtC money is just traders looking for quick plays across 6,999 possible options.

I don't see how an increase in the number of altcoins affects only Ethereum and not Bitcoin.

I am heating my house and getting paid in Ethereum. Hopefully that will pay off in the long run. We'll see. Nothing is a sure bet. I do think the dollar is going to devalue. Expect to see minimum wage go to $15 per hour. And cars getting more expensive etc. Crypto values will increase as a result.

[obsidian]

Energy for alt coins is very diluted vs 2017.

In 2017 there was 1700 coin options.

In 2020 there are 7,000+.

BTC is the only one at previous high. The others are way way behind. You won’t see the previous ratios again because non-BtC money is just traders looking for quick plays across 6,999 possible options.

I'll check it out. Thanks for the link! Here's hoping we see 15 Ethereum to 1 Bitcoin!

[Mr Anabolic]

[obsidian]

Peter Schiff is really angry lol! He totally missed the Bitcoin market!

https://news.bitcoin.com/angry-peter-schiff-lays-into-grayscale-and-cnbc-claims-conspiracy-to-pump-btc-value/

[Mayday]

I don't see how an increase in the number of altcoins affects only Ethereum and not Bitcoin.

I am heating my house and getting paid in Ethereum. Hopefully that will pay off in the long run. We'll see. Nothing is a sure bet. I do think the dollar is going to devalue. Expect to see minimum wage go to $15 per hour. And cars getting more expensive etc. Crypto values will increase as a result.

Say there is 100B of actual money invested into the total crypto market.

In 2017 the 100B was split across 1,700 coins. In 2020 the 100B is split across 7,000 coins.

Hence it is diluted however BTC is the only coin to be at it’s previous high meanwhile alt coins are well off the previous high. The market has decided BTC is ‘something’ and per gib there is money flowing in which is long term holders.

Of course they are trying to devalue the dollar. Inflation is required for growth. However Unemployment is at global highs and you don’t have wage inflation when you have triple the unemployed than normal because there in this environment you have downward pressure on wages. Reduced hours. Reduced wage due to working from home instead of an office. Lockdowns. Restrictions of trade etc, all an argument for cheaper labour. 

it will be years to get wages resolved which will be done via basal income because they blew up the job market. Basal income solves the lack of wage inflation argument, just give everyone more money and you can create trickle up economics.