Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[obsidian]

I'm not buying here.

I'm not selling here. Most crypto prices are dogshit. The only good looking chart is honestly Tron TRX. This chart goes back to 2017. TRX will be 10 years old next year.

I have some TRX going back 8-9 years and staking it now. Still have all my ETH and staking it, but the price is absolute trash. ETH investors suck they must all be broke-ass jeets for selling it down to these low levels.

[GymnJuice]

Has anyone looked into STRC?

[gib]

Has anyone looked into STRC?

Yes - I have been buying - started around 1 month ago. Am nicely up. If you believe in BTC and you understand how MSTR has structured STRC, you will realize that STRC is at a bargain price right now.

[gib]

I'm not selling here. Most crypto prices are dogshit. The only good looking chart is honestly Tron TRX. This chart goes back to 2017. TRX will be 10 years old next year.

I have some TRX going back 8-9 years and staking it now. Still have all my ETH and staking it, but the price is absolute trash. ETH investors suck they must all be broke-ass jeets for selling it down to these low levels.

I'm not much into alts, but for what its worth, based on my valuation methodology - basically a discounted cashflow analysis (the same one that puts ETH at around $500), I can tell you that Tron is one of a handfull of alts that I consider to be below fair value. (I don't own any, but I am considering...).

[GymnJuice]

Yes - I have been buying - started around 1 month ago. Am nicely up. If you believe in BTC and you understand how MSTR has structured STRC, you will realize that STRC is at a bargain price right now.

I like that STRC pays its yield as a return of capital rather than interest as it reduces the tax drag for people in higher brackets. It’s currently trading below its stated par of 100, which makes it look like a bargain on that basis, though I noticed it dipped into the 70s not too long ago. Do you have any concerns that they had to sell Bitcoin to cover the preferred stock dividends?

[FitnessFrenzy]

Is bitcoin dead?

It seems the interest and hype had died down.

[Mayday]

Is bitcoin dead?

It seems the interest and hype had died down.

My X feed is filled with bottom callers and ATH 2027 callers. Most are very bullish, particularly for ETH as I have said all along.

Down here we have bearish euphoria on property. I can tell you it's sickening and bloody obvious when you are nearing the bottom. crypto isn't even remotely close to being bearish.

[obsidian]

My X feed is filled with bottom callers and ATH 2027 callers. Most are very bullish, particularly for ETH as I have said all along.

Down here we have bearish euphoria on property. I can tell you it's sickening and bloody obvious when you are nearing the bottom. crypto isn't even remotely close to being bearish.

Most retail investors are bearish on crypto right now. Almost all influencers are bearish. Ben Cowen is calling for a $500 ETH. Many people expect BTC to drop to $20-50k. All alts have been written off as worthless. Meanwhile Tron TRX absolutely ripped BTC a new one the past 9 years.

The current ETH price is garbage and I am really pissed off and disappointed at other ETH investors who dumped it down to these pathetic levels.

1 BTC is currently trading for about 31 ETH, but there's only a little over 6 ETH for every 1 BTC.

ETH's current inflation is 0.86% and a little higher than BTC's 0.83%. That's because more ETH is staked now after Tom Lee added Bitmine's holdings. About 42.25 million ETH is staked. This increases issuance which inflates the ETH supply. BTC has the opposite problem. BTC's inflation halves every 4 years, but the inflation is what pays miners to secure the network.

https://beaconcha.in/charts/staked_ether

The gamble is that the BTC price will more than double to offset the 50% reduction in inflation every 4 years along with the dollar's devaluation in the same time period. What matters to miners is the purchasing power of a BTC block reward. The dollar's purchasing power declines more than people realize. The official numbers are bogus. Real purchasing power declines by about 11% per year. So if the price of BTC doubles every 4 years, the miners are getting paid the same amount as before in dollars, only those dollars now buy a lot less than they did 4 years prior.

The hope is that transaction fees will make up the difference. But since BTC launched 17 years ago transaction fees still account for less than 1% of miner revenue. So BTC could be cooked once its inflation goes to 0.2 or 0.1%.

Critics of ETH claim it has an infinite supply. Well, the inflation is still manageable at 0.86%. On the higher side than most of us want. The problem is there has to be inflation to reward stakers via a yield. One can't exist without the other. At the same time, the transaction fees have to be super cheap since Solana and other chains started competing with ETH. ETH's inflation was negative prior to the Dencun upgrade that started lowering ETH fees. The hope on the Ethereum side is that the transaction volume will scale immensely to increase the amount of ETH being burned. That would help bring down ETH's inflation.

There's also a proposal to reduce the yield to ETH stakers. Some people argue that Ethereum is overpaying for security. They want to lower ETH's inflation to about 0.4%, to compete with BTC's +/- 0.415% inflation after 2028. Fiat inflation is about 8% per year, or 10x the current inflation of BTC or ETH.

So ETH's infinite supply is overblown.

The dollar is secured by the US government and military. BTC is secured by miners. ETH is secured by stakers. The dollar has been able to get away with massive inflation and devaluation because of its reserve status and the backing / enforcing by the US military. We'll see how that turns out long-term.

[Methyl m1ke]

Is bitcoin dead?

It seems the interest and hype had died down.

Yes

[Griffith]

Yes

If you had bought ETH at 1600 or BTC at 60k you would be up in massive profits now.

But as usual, most people panic.

[gib]

If you had bought ETH at 1600 or BTC at 60k you would be up in massive profits now.

But as usual, most people panic.

You would think, after that all these many pages, that people would learn lessons...

For the record, I kept stacking all the way through.

Other lesson some people never learn is chasing the latest shitcoin, and hoping to outperform BTC so as to eventually buy more BTC. Its a fools mentality, but it still keeps happening...

[gib]

Most retail investors are bearish on crypto right now. Almost all influencers are bearish. Ben Cowen is calling for a $500 ETH. Many people expect BTC to drop to $20-50k. All alts have been written off as worthless. Meanwhile Tron TRX absolutely ripped BTC a new one the past 9 years.

The current ETH price is garbage and I am really pissed off and disappointed at other ETH investors who dumped it down to these pathetic levels.

1 BTC is currently trading for about 31 ETH, but there's only a little over 6 ETH for every 1 BTC.

ETH's current inflation is 0.86% and a little higher than BTC's 0.83%. That's because more ETH is staked now after Tom Lee added Bitmine's holdings. About 42.25 million ETH is staked. This increases issuance which inflates the ETH supply. BTC has the opposite problem. BTC's inflation halves every 4 years, but the inflation is what pays miners to secure the network.

https://beaconcha.in/charts/staked_ether

The gamble is that the BTC price will more than double to offset the 50% reduction in inflation every 4 years along with the dollar's devaluation in the same time period. What matters to miners is the purchasing power of a BTC block reward. The dollar's purchasing power declines more than people realize. The official numbers are bogus. Real purchasing power declines by about 11% per year. So if the price of BTC doubles every 4 years, the miners are getting paid the same amount as before in dollars, only those dollars now buy a lot less than they did 4 years prior.

The hope is that transaction fees will make up the difference. But since BTC launched 17 years ago transaction fees still account for less than 1% of miner revenue. So BTC could be cooked once its inflation goes to 0.2 or 0.1%.

Critics of ETH claim it has an infinite supply. Well, the inflation is still manageable at 0.86%. On the higher side than most of us want. The problem is there has to be inflation to reward stakers via a yield. One can't exist without the other. At the same time, the transaction fees have to be super cheap since Solana and other chains started competing with ETH. ETH's inflation was negative prior to the Dencun upgrade that started lowering ETH fees. The hope on the Ethereum side is that the transaction volume will scale immensely to increase the amount of ETH being burned. That would help bring down ETH's inflation.

There's also a proposal to reduce the yield to ETH stakers. Some people argue that Ethereum is overpaying for security. They want to lower ETH's inflation to about 0.4%, to compete with BTC's +/- 0.415% inflation after 2028. Fiat inflation is about 8% per year, or 10x the current inflation of BTC or ETH.

So ETH's infinite supply is overblown.

The dollar is secured by the US government and military. BTC is secured by miners. ETH is secured by stakers. The dollar has been able to get away with massive inflation and devaluation because of its reserve status and the backing / enforcing by the US military. We'll see how that turns out long-term.

I can sell you a rotten banana, or a freshly dumped turd, with zero inflation, and with far less supply than BTC... I'll even pay you a little yield if you pay me enough for it.

[Griffith]

If you bought ETH at 1600 you'd be up 50%.

If you bought BTC at 60k you'd be up 26%.

Doesn't matter how much either dipped before, you're looking at the profit from when you bought.

[obsidian]

I can sell you a rotten banana, or a freshly dumped turd, with zero inflation, and with far less supply than BTC... I'll even pay you a little yield if you pay me enough for it.

There's more than 8 billion people dumping turds every day. That's massive inflation. The turd supply is 100% every day. Imagine printing 120 million ETH per day, indefinitely... 

[obsidian]

If you bought ETH at 1600 you'd be up 50%.

If you bought BTC at 60k you'd be up 26%.

Doesn't matter how much either dipped before, you're looking at the profit from when you bought.

Not impressed. ETH should have never dumped to 1.6K. I realized on October 10th 2025 that I roundtripped ETH again. Look where BTC, BNB, and TRX are at right now. ETH needs to do a 2x just to catch up to those ones. TRX is way ahead...

[obsidian]

You would think, after that all these many pages, that people would learn lessons...

For the record, I kept stacking all the way through.

Other lesson some people never learn is chasing the latest shitcoin, and hoping to outperform BTC so as to eventually buy more BTC. Its a fools mentality, but it still keeps happening...

Tron has outperformed BTC since 2017. You've been lucky with BTC. As I explained to you, BTC needs inflation to keep miners securing the network. BTC with an inflation of 0% fails instantly, since very few people will be willing to mine or secure BTC without compensation. The BTC POW model with finite supply is flawed / doomed in the long-run.

[Griffith]

Not impressed. ETH should have never dumped to 1.6K. I realized on October 10th 2025 that I roundtripped ETH again. Look where BTC, BNB, and TRX are at right now. ETH needs to do a 2x just to catch up to those ones. TRX is way ahead...

Longer-term is looking good though.

Fundamentals have never been better for ETH, much better than a few years ago. We now have not only the Ethereum Foundation but ETH labs, Etherealize, Bitmine and SharpLink.

Also look at how stablecoin adoption is increasing, ETH might not capture all of it, but still almost 60%. More people (outside the US who want to use a hard currency) will be using USD stablecoins and will use them for online purchases and transfers.

And tokenization will also become more widespread and mainly on Ethereum. Already used by Robinhood, Blackrock, Fidelity, JPMorgan, Franklin Templeton, Ondo Finance etc.

[GymnJuice]

Tron has outperformed BTC since 2017. You've been lucky with BTC. As I explained to you, BTC needs inflation to keep miners securing the network. BTC with an inflation of 0% fails instantly, since very few people will be willing to mine or secure BTC without compensation. The BTC POW model with finite supply is flawed / doomed in the long-run.

Won't they still mine for the transaction fees?

[obsidian]

Won't they still mine for the transaction fees?

Bitcoin can process a maximum of roughly 6–7 transactions per second (TPS). With 86,400 seconds in a day, that works out to approximately 518,400–604,800 transactions per day.

The current average Bitcoin transaction fee is about $0.1737. At maximum throughput, that would generate only about $90,046–$105,054 per day in transaction-fee revenue.

Source: https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee

By comparison, the current block subsidy is 3.125 BTC per block. With roughly one block every 10 minutes, or 144 blocks per day, miners receive:

144 × 3.125 BTC = 450 BTC per day

At a BTC price of approximately $78,400, that represents:

450 × $78,400 = $35.28 million per day

So all Bitcoin miners worldwide are currently sharing roughly $35.28 million per day in block-subsidy revenue.

At today's fee levels, transaction fees would generate only about 0.25–0.30% as much revenue as the block subsidy.

If Bitcoin had zero new issuance and transaction fees alone had to replace today's $35.28 million daily block subsidy, fee revenue would need to increase by roughly 336×–392×.

Applied to today's average transaction fee of $0.1737, that implies an average fee of roughly $58–$68 per transaction just to replace the miner revenue currently provided by issuance.

BITCOIN BLOCK REWARDS
3.125000 BTC (2024) 1
################################################################
1.562500 BTC (2028) 1/2
################################
0.781250 BTC (2032) 1/4
################
0.390625 BTC (2036) 1/8
########
0.195313 BTC (2040) 1/16
####
0.097656 BTC (2044) 1/32
##
0.048828 BTC (2048) 1/64
#

[obsidian]

Longer-term is looking good though.

Fundamentals have never been better for ETH, much better than a few years ago. We now have not only the Ethereum Foundation but ETH labs, Etherealize, Bitmine and SharpLink.

Also look at how stablecoin adoption is increasing, ETH might not capture all of it, but still almost 60%. More people (outside the US who want to use a hard currency) will be using USD stablecoins and will use them for online purchases and transfers.

And tokenization will also become more widespread and mainly on Ethereum. Already used by Robinhood, Blackrock, Fidelity, JPMorgan, Franklin Templeton, Ondo Finance etc.

Just playing devil’s advocate here, but there’s no guarantee ETH’s price will go up simply because more stablecoins are settled on the network. You don’t need to hold ETH to use most of these stablecoins. For ETH to directly benefit from that activity, we need mechanisms where stablecoin usage actually creates sustained ETH demand or burns ETH in the background with every transaction.

Ethereum needs something more like an Ethereum-focused exchange — similar to Binance and BNB. Binance gives traders fee discounts for holding BNB, while BNB is also actively burned, with the long-term goal of reducing the supply to 80 million. We can already see that BNB has been a better investment than ETH since 2017. Tron has also outperformed ETH.

I hold all three, but ETH has been by far the largest part of my portfolio. And honestly, I’m pissed off at other ETH investors because the constant selling and lack of conviction are a big reason ETH has dumped so hard over the past five years and now has a chart that looks like a fucking scam. Great for traders who don’t believe in the asset. Brutal for long-term investors who did.

So ETH has a lot of catching up to do before I’m happy again. I’m stubborn as fuck and I’m not selling shit at these pathetic levels. But I’m also taking note of ETH’s shitcoin-like price action. When the time comes, I’ll make moves accordingly — assuming ETH eventually recovers massive ground against grandpa BTC and earns back some of that snowflake premium.

At the end of the day, ETH can only be a worthwhile long-term investment if people actually treat it like one instead of jeeting every time it crosses $4K. If investors keep selling into every rally, ETH is going to continue struggling to capture the value its network is supposedly creating.

[SouJerz]

Anyone wanna look into their crystal ball and call the high for this cycle?

KEEP STACKING SATOSHIS!!!!

[SouJerz]

125K end of 2025 price.

WHO SAYS?!?!?!

[Mayday]

Not impressed. ETH should have never dumped to 1.6K. I realized on October 10th 2025 that I roundtripped ETH again. Look where BTC, BNB, and TRX are at right now. ETH needs to do a 2x just to catch up to those ones. TRX is way ahead...

Don't worry, it'll return. They didn't setup an ETF for it because it's useless.

BTC will either finish this cycle or it's already done and in a long term downtrend. What risk BTC was pricing was oil and Inflation. Oil is done. Inflation is under control so the risk being priced isn't required anymore. I haven't bought BTC because I. Won't touch something that is likely done unless it at lows, I'll wait.

So the question becomes what does ETH price in? It's viewed as a blow off valve for BTC but we only saw that one time. We just went a cycle where it tried to rally and failed multiple times. There will be meaning to that.

[gib]

Anyone wanna look into their crystal ball and call the high for this cycle?

The 4 year cycle charting guys would say 180K-220K range end 2029.

What we do know, is that overtime, BTC rises infinitely to fiat currency. And we also know that stocks, and "alts" can be infinitely created (whereas BTC is finite, governed by mathematics and physics).

Anyone who keeps storing their economic energy in BTC will be greatly rewarded as adoption of BTC as an energy ledger increases over time.

[gib]

Latest paper from Blackrock.

This is the type of stuff read at the institutional, private wealth, family office, and sovereign wealth fund level. Ignore the idiots who believe that can somehow pick an "alt" from in infinite number of BTC affinity scams, combined BTC-fud with alt-scam bag-pumping nonsense and simply buy and buy and buy Bitcoin.

It really is that simple, as I have repeatedly pointed out since this thread. Don't be an idiot. Don't get scammed. Don't think you can outperform Bitcoin. Every cycle, the same types of people get burned.

United we stand, united BTC thrives. Wealth is finite, so if we spread it around an infinite number of alts created with zero effort we all fail, and the established system of money-printing theft by stealth succeeds.

KEEP STACKING SATOSHIS!!!!

https://www.blackrock.com/us/financial-professionals/literature/whitepaper/re-underwriting-bitcoin.pdf