Interesting article on short cycles:

[theworm]

I know many are going to call bullshit but hear him out, a lot makes sense.  As for cycling, I'm back at that commitment.  When I'm on, my hdl is 17, when off its 49.  I don't want to argue about lipids, but anyone who knows a shit will know it's MUCH healthier to have hdl of 49!  Especially since I'm almost 40.

Read below:


As many of you already know I have had decent success with short cycles. I, along with some of my friends and clients, have had good results with cycles as short as 14 days long.

I no longer do cycles longer than 4-6 weeks as I am simply sick of the sides that build up after 4-6 weeks and I no longer feel comfortable walking around with a shitty lipid profile for months on end.


WHAT QUALIFIES AS SHORT

"In my book" any cycle 6 weeks or less is a short cycle. Personally I now think that 4 weekers give the best gains to sides ratio.

You can do 2 weeks "on" 2-4 weeks "off"
You can do 4 weeks on and 4-6 weeks off
Or you can do 6 weeks on with 6-8 weeks off.
4 weeks on and 4 weeks off, year round, gives excellent results and you are only "on" half the year.

WHY DO THEM

#1.
If you are one of those bro's that does longer cycles, of say 10-12 weeks or more, and then wisely takes an equal amount of time off, and you are tired of loosing so much of your gains post cycle due to the length of the time off...the yoyo affect....then why not try doing shorter cycles with their corresponding shorter off times...... obviously you don't gain as much with a short cycle but then again you don't loose as much post cycle either due to the shorter off time.

Now... over say a year of doing 4 on 4-6 off you are gong to get very similar results as that seen from doing longer cycles of say 12 "on" 12-14 off but with less yo-yo affect and less sides. In fact most of my clients that do 4-6 week cycles tell me that they are actually getting better gains over a years use.

#2.
Do them to have less of a negative impact on ones lipid profile and to have less total time per year with a poor lipid profile.

Some of you may not know that androgens, taken at even newbie bodybuilding doses, alter everyones lipid profile. Everyone sees their hdl(good cholesterol) take a huge "nosedive" and most also see their ldl(bad cholesterol) go up to some degree but not to the same degree that hdl decreases. Generally hdl decreases 40-70% in as little as 2 weeks and ldl increases an average of 36% in 4 weeks. In my experience this reduction in hdl puts all bro's hdl WELL below the pathological minimum of 35. My ldl does not elevate above the pathological level of 160 but others see ldl's well above 160.
Lipid levels typically normalize within 3-10 weeks after discontinuation.
( details taken from article in Medscape)

Here are my "numbers" from the last long cycle of test 750mg/week and Tren 75mg/day. A powerful stack but not a huge dose of gear. It's been as bad with less powerful gear and lower doses. Blood work done after week 7.

Total cholesterol 181...not bad.
ldl 160...not very good
hdl 11.6! CRAPPY big time
Cholesterol to hdl ratio 15.7 to 1...ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! This is when my doc and I had a COW at the same time.
Triglycerides 50...good.

Here is my "baseline" without gear

Chol 152...great
ldl 106...great
hdl 45-48...good
tri 50..good
chol to hdl ratio....3.16 to 1.....good

.As far as I and my endochrinologist are concerned this lipid altering side of gear use is the single worst side of steroid use.
In as little as a week hdl decreases. Personally my brother-in-law and I really see a huge decrease after about 3 weeks "on' cycle. The last time I did a long cycle my total cholesterol to hdl ratio plummeted to 15 to 1!...My doc had a cow and so did I!!

According to current medical thought ones total cholesterol to hdl ratio is the single greatest LIPID indicator for assessing ones chances of developing heart disease. Men with low total cholesterols but with crappy hdl have gone on to develope heart disease WITHOUT ANY OTHER RISK FACTORS such as smoking, or diabetes.

Ideally you want an hdl of at least 40 and a ratio of 3.5 to 1 or better.

My mentor, the late great MIKE MENTZER died of heart disease at age 50 and I know for a fact that ARNOLD had more than valve surgery(I am an operating room nurse as well as a trainer)


#3.
Do them to decrease liver stress.
Generally long cycles with non 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver but sometimes one can get into trouble. The short cycle allows for less total stress on the liver and the frequent "off" times allows the liver to regenerate very well.
Generally a healthy liver can take pretty big "hits" for short periods of time without any problem ...it is long term stress that cause liver damage(as seen with elevated GGT enzyme levels)

#4.
Do them if you want to "tone down" your use of steroids.

#5.
Do them if you do NOT want to use HCG during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. HPTA shut down will be complete in as little as a week "on" but testicualr atrophy is minimal due to the short length of this shut down. This then allows for better HPTA recovery post cycle.
It is small testes that makes HPTA recovery slow because GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH from the pituitary normally rebound pretty rapidly.
* There will be some testicular shrinkage in any cycle so if you do 4 "on" 4 "off" for several cycles in a row then it would be a good idea to use hcg at 500iu's every 3rd day while "on" to prevent testicular atrophy...the 4 weeks "off" may not be enough time to allow for complete testicular recovery and over the span of several cycles this may impact your HPTA recovery.

You certainly can use hcg while on any short cycle to prevent any testicular shrinkage if you like but it really isn't necessary.

#6.
Do them if you do not want to see much in the way of water retention and do not want to use an estrogen inhibitor or an ace inhibitor(diuretic)


#7.
Do them if you get high blood pressure and do not wish to use the above mentioned ancillaries.

#8. Do them if you are sick of androgenic sides such as ance, prostate hypertrophy and hair loss(if prone to hair loss) etc etc.
Androgen sides come on for two reason...dose used and especially length of time "on". I do not get acne until after 4 weeks on and then I get hammered.....and I hate it.

#9.
Do them if you are tired of walking around with high estrogen levels for months on end and do not wish to or cannot afford to use an estrogen inhibitor. High estrogen levels are NOT good for the prostate at all!

You certainly can use estrogen inhibitors if you like if you want to keep estrogen levels down and experience very little water retention.


WHY NOT TO DO THEM

Obviously if you compete at a high level then short cycles are probably not the best for you, BUT I think they are the best way to use steroids for the vast majority of bro's.
Top competitors need to be "on" either all the time or most of the time....thats unfortunate but usually necessary in order to get freaky huge which is now needed to win big.


WHAT TO EXPECT

If one is not yet at ones natural maximum level of muscular developement then very good gains can be seen of up to 15 pounds and 10 pounds kept after a 4 weeker...as long as you train correctly as a natural post cycle.

If one is off gear and has dropped to ones natural max then a short cycle can add up to 10 pounds. If you take no more than 6 weeks off after each four weeker you will not loose much...then in each successive cycle you can still gain but the gains will be smaller the further you get from your natural max.

Those that are off cycle and have not yet shrunk down to their natural max can still gain well with successive short cycles but don't expect to win at the national level.

One of the things I like about short cycles is the short time "off" between cycles.......muscular atrophy is minimal during the off time and you are allowing for frequent bodily normalization after minimal time "on". LESS SIDES IN GENERAL, LESS TIME WITH A SHITTY LIPID PROFILE and LESS MUSCLE LOSS POST CYCLE.

NOTE: You cannot get "freaky big" in this way...that takes very big doses and spending most of the year, for years on end, on steroids as well as GH and slin, and that my freinds is simply not a good idea unless you plan to make your living as a bodybuilder.

Getting pretty darn big in small steps is a safer way to use gear IMHO...and it messes less with one head too. Some guys really get depressed during "off" times of 12 or more weeks waiting to start their next cycle.


GEAR CHOICE and RATIONAL

The idea behind short cycles is to "get in" quick, hit the androgen receptors hard, get some gains, and then get the hell out as fast as possible so as to minimize sides. So with this in mind one should only use orals and rapid acting/clearing injectables. The limited time "on' simply doesn't justify the use of the "slower" esterfied injectables like deca etc. Also, these same roids take too long to clear the system and that too goes against the philosophy of short cycles.

The gear choosen should be powerful for best results and doses need to be decent as well in order to get the most from the short time on.
You can use mild gear like anavar but your results will be reduced.

BEST Gear

d-bol
test prop Tren anadrol

BEST stacks.

Personally I think d-bol/tren cannot be beat. There is only one roid that is better than testosterone, in the short run, IMHO and that is d-bol...too bad it's 17aa.

Test prop/tren
Test prop/tren/winny
Test prop/anadrol
Test prop/d-bol


STACKS AND DOSE EXAMPLES

I like Tren and I like d-bol and especially for a shorty. YES NEWBIE you can use these strong androgens and NO Tren is not hard on the kidneys(myth).

Some guys think I am nuts for recommending Tren for a first cycle and they say it is too harsh.... but most of the same bro's will recommend a long cycle of test/d-bol for a newbie and I can assure you that a long cycle of test/d-bol is going to give you more sides than a shorty with Tren and d-bol. Bro's test is just as "harsh" as Tren and it causes a good deal of water retention, with resultant increase in BP(bad in some bro's) unless you use an estrogen inhibitor....and shit test/d-bol stacks are WAY "harsher" than Tren.

The only issue with Tren is the frequent injecting required.....but I know some of you newbies have been researching for a long time and are fine with the idea of frequent injections(they aren't that bad!)


Novice... TREN/D-BOL.... Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day in 4 divided doses per day(one right before bed) for 4 weeks.
Two days after last Tren do Clomid at 200-300mg on day one in divided doses and then 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg a day for 3 more weeks. OR...Nolva at 80mg on day one in divided doses followed by 40mg/day for a week and then 20mg/day for 3 more weeks.
Have nolva or Clomid on hand for gyno protection.

More advanced...200 of Tren on day one as a front load to get Tren levels up pronto and then 75mg/day for 4 weeks. D-bol 50mg/day in 4 divided doses for 4 weeks. SERMS as above

Novice...TEST PROP/TREN

Test prop 75mg/day for 4 weeks and Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Serms as above. nolva on hand.

more advanced.....Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-200mg/day for 4 weeks. Tren 75mg/day. An estrogen inhibitor might be needed.

MEGA STACK... ADVANCED
Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100mg /day for 4 weeks, d-bol 50mg/day and Tren 75mg/day......LOOK THE HELL OUT! Have the nolva on the tip of your tongue he he he ...arimidex at 1-1.5mg/day would be wise even for the short 4 week period.

SINGLE STEROIDS

D-bol really is an unreal roid and as I said it is even better than test in the short run IMHO.
One can get very nice results from d-bol alone at 50mg/day for 4-6 weeks. Don't take it for longer than 6 weeks though as it is a 17aa roid and as such is somewhat hard on the liver.
D-bol for 6 weeks at a time was a favorite cycle length in the old days and produced excellent gains.

Test prop can be run all by itself at 75-200mg/day with great results too.



OKAY.....BUT YOU SAY YOU ONLY HAVE SUST, EQ, CYP etc

Long chain esterfied roids and tests are not the best choice for the shorty, as explained above, but they can work pretty well IF you do pretty large front loads. FRONT LOADS simply help to get blood hormone levels up more quickly.

ie: Intermediate user doing test cyp ...do a FRONT LOAD of at least 800mg on day one...then 2 days latter do 400mg and then every 4h day do another 400.
400 every 4th day is equal to 700mg per week.

Run the cyp for 4-6 weeks and you'll get some decent gains from it.

* Best to use Tren with this cycle....or d-bol (1 mg of arimidex/day if using d-bol and test)

* After the last shot of cyp you are going to have to wait for a couple weeks for androgen levels to drop before you start PCT and this is akin to lengthening the cycle.



BLOOD LIPIDS

You might want to consider taking the worlds best hdl improver while "on" cycle...NIACIN!
Nothing even comes close to niacins hdl incresing powers. Personally it has not helped my hdl while "on' nor has it helped my brother-in-laws, but you might see some level of improvement(don't expect a great improvement though since androgens do such a great job of messing with hepatic lipaze)

Nicain comes in three forms...regular, extended release(Niaspan) and non flush niacin. Niaspan is the best and works well at 1500mg/day taken once daily. Regular niacin works well at 600-1000mg three times a day but it gives a nasty ichy flush for a while after taking each pill.
Non flush works fairly well at 2-3 grams a day but not as good as the others IMHO.


Use nicain while "off" for sure as it will rapidly improve your shitty hdl level.
NOTE*** niacin can be hard on the liver so never use it with acutane which is hard on the liver. You really should have liver panels done if you use niacin for more than 6 weeks and be followed by a doctor(Swale would be good) especially if you are on steroids as well.

ENTER POLICOSANOL

DrVeejay11(real doctor) introduced me to another great lipid protector/improver and it too raises hdl BUT BONUS...it lowers ldl too.. and it's not liver toxic at all so you could use this stuff all the time with no worries.
Do a search at www.medscape.com for abstracts on POLICOSANOL.


I recommed that all be followed by a doctor while on steroids or at the very least educate yourself about the sides of steroid use and how to avoid the pitfalls by following yourself with blood work at labs that do not require a docs script(especially liver panels... and psa for us older guys) And guys at a minimum also watch your blood pressure while on gear at your local drug store monitoring station....keep the BP under 140 over 90 if you can especailly if you are "on" for months on end.

source - http://www.steroidology.com/forum

[jb14972]

huge fan of this concept. the last few years i was basically working my way into cycling like that. i was training for strength and orals are king and you cant take them for long periods without nasty sides. i was cruising year around and then just blasted orals on like a 4 week on 4 week off rotation. i also didnt set up an exact protocol like you did. i think most dudes could get anything they wanted out of this without all the sides, most dudes anyway...

[Jizmo]

i like the short cycle theories... slingshot cycling or whatever its called.. id personally prefer 6-8 weeks but 4 blast/4 cruise would work aswell...

oh btw, its NIACIN

and policosanol has been proven to be useless for western people... idk why but it only seems to work for the south american guys on who the first studies were done

[theworm]

i like the short cycle theories... slingshot cycling or whatever its called.. id personally prefer 6-8 weeks but 4 blast/4 cruise would work aswell...

oh btw, its NIACIN

and policosanol has been proven to be useless for western people... idk why but it only seems to work for the south american guys on who the first studies were done

I didn't write the article, it's a copy from steroidology, hence the nicain spelling....   Just thought it was interesting.   Sucks cause when I'm on my hdl drops 70%...  I was running var 50 at the time.  I'm going to stick with injectible and check again in a few months.   

[theworm]

I think my plan for here on out (until HRt) is going to be 2 cycles a year.

First cycle is winter bulk: 12-14 weeks just deca and test

Second is summer cycle:  8 week test prop and anavar

I think I should retain some muscle year round while being healthier and better HDL

[equipoise]

I think my plan for here on out (until HRt) is going to be 2 cycles a year.

First cycle is winter bulk: 12-14 weeks just deca and test

Second is summer cycle:  8 week test prop and anavar

I think I should retain some muscle year round while being healthier and better HDL

I think short cycles can't be used for gaining significant muscle mass. But I can see how it can be used if you already bulked before and you just want to use muscle memory to recomp

[theworm]

I think short cycles can't be used for gaining significant muscle mass. But I can see how it can be used if you already bulked before and you just want to use muscle memory to recomp

Would u suggest 2 cycles, 12-14 weeks apiece?

[Gainsi]

This looks extremely interesting, read the whole thing. Anyone else can guarantee that this works? Currently running TRT @200mg with some var. If this actually works, i wouls be willing to do 4-6 weeks cycles, with 4-6 weeks off. Niacin concept also sounds nice. Only thing I don't like, i will be putting my hormones on a roller coaster, constantly going up and down and could cause crazy outbreaks of acne. Been on var for 2 weeks, and started experiencing the sides on day 2.

[Mranabolic]

i like the short cycle theories... slingshot cycling or whatever its called.. id personally prefer 6-8 weeks but 4 blast/4 cruise would work aswell...

oh btw, its NIACIN

and policosanol has been proven to be useless for western people... idk why but it only seems to work for the south american guys on who the first studies were done

Hmmm so how would u run this jiz ?

Keep test same and run 4-6 weeks fast acting injects and orals then 4 weeks only test then 6 week blast again ?

Sound interesting

[Jizmo]

Hmmm so how would u run this jiz ?

Keep test same and run 4-6 weeks fast acting injects and orals then 4 weeks only test then 6 week blast again ?

Sound interesting

yeah probably keep a long ester test base of 200-300mg or so in there, then blast the sh*t out of fasting acting stuff like test prop, tren ace, npp, orals etc for a couple weeks, then back to your test only base...
increase food, training volume etc during the blast phases

this might be a good way to get around the myostatin/cortisol increases of long cycles

[theworm]

yeah probably keep a long ester test base of 200-300mg or so in there, then blast the sh*t out of fasting acting stuff like test prop, tren ace, npp, orals etc for a couple weeks, then back to your test only base...
increase food, training volume etc during the blast phases

this might be a good way to get around the myostatin/cortisol increases of long cycles

You guys are talking about blasting and cruising. The article is more alone of stopping everything.  I'm going to try it that way, until HRt in near future.  I'll get blood work done to check.

On a side note, I keep reading more and more that low test is an independent risk factor for heart disease so it may be healthier to stay on HRt between blasts... Starting to become a believer.  HOWEVER, look at the vitamin D debate.  Low vit D linked to a lot of bad health issues, but not one study shows that supplementing with vit D helps anything.  Wonder if the same holds true for testosterone

[Jizmo]

if you blast long esters then you wont ever drop down to 0 within 4 weeks, especially not with deca or EQ... thats kind of a flaw in this system... much better to have stable levels and then blast ontop of it imo

[theworm]

if you blast long esters then you wont ever drop down to 0 within 4 weeks, especially not with deca or EQ... thats kind of a flaw in this system... much better to have stable levels and then blast ontop of it imo

Right, only way is to run short esters.  When I do prop and var, I hold most the weight for about 2 months, so it may continue to build muscle and follow time off = time on.  Maybe 6 weeks on, 8 weeks off and repeat

[PizzaTrenSlin]

What about keeping low Test and Masteron all year and just keep blasting 6weeks on NPP 6 weeks on Tren A?
Like:
6weeks on:
100mg Test E
700mg Tren A
300mg MastP
Then 6 weeks on:
100mg Test E
700mg NPP
300mg MastP

[Mayday]

I use test e, 250mg/wk. Been on since Oct last year.

Did a Stint on 500/wk for 4 weeks and felt more solid, bit more water but not much. Gained very little muscle once down to 250/wk and water off. As in maybe 250gm lean.tissue gain type thing.

Just did another stint at 500/wk but for about 7 weeks and this time week 4 onwards was insane gains. Lots of strength, around 1kg lean tissue maybe more.  That's a lot!

I'm doing 4 weeks on 250 then I'll try 8 weeks on 500. I did try last time going off but felt very down so I ended up on 250/wk. I did wonder if I'd feel a mental downturn going from 500-250 but nope. Fine. Less aggression, happier, good well being.

Started 75@13% and 9 months on i'm 88@14%. Goal is 85@12.

[local hero]

This was popular in the UK in the 90's, the protocol would be 3 weeks sus,decca,dbol,3weeks prop, tren etc, 4 weeks off and start again.

The pros would talk about this, altho I doubt that any took more than a couple of weeks off....

Worked quite well...

[falco]

It has been tried before. Doesn't work. The body wants consistency in training, nutrients, rest and hormones. You will not put on serious size.
Health wise on the use of short cycles for years, i would advise to be 2 weeks on/4 off. Even that will eventually shut you down.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

It has been tried before. Doesn't work. The body wants consistency in training, nutrients, rest and hormones. You will not put on serious size.
Health wise on the use of short cycles for years, i would advise to be 2 weeks on/4 off. Even that will eventually shut you down.

I did that for 3 years and works like shit in the end i got shut down, i have noticed it because i had lost completely interest in sex and in life in general, was fucking depressed, so i did blood tests with complete hormonal panel... 0 Test, 0 DHT, E2 80 pg/l, 0 Prolactine.

So i started cruising and blasting since Jan 2016, results untill now? I love my life! I'm more consistent with diet, workouts, everything in general.

Cruising and blasting imho is the only what to use hormones, you have to be consistent in diet, workouts and HORMONES!
Your body have to adapt to new hormonal panel, have to reestablish a new status.

I think that even blasting for 12 weeks then cruising isn't that good. It works for sure but better method is to choose 4 drugs and raise them with time even in more than 40 weeks.

Let's say Test Tren Deca Mast, you start low 200 200 200 200 and every 4/6 weeks you raise one of them, then other 4/6 and keep rising.
While you rise them your body will grow and you will have more androgenic receptors ready to be occupied by new drugs.
You can also control your "look"...  "Gosh i'm bloated as fuck because too much Deca? Ok let's raise Mast and Tren.."

My coach atm putted me on 200 TestE 300 TrenA 300 NPP 300 MastP 400 Eq 300 PrimoE and 400 DHB, i'm just at 8th week of this, so a lot of drugs aren't even stabilized (introduced EQ and PrimoE 5 days ago..) and i'm only at baby doses, i'm feeling fine, maybe because drugs are low atm but if you sum them it's still 2,2g (with esters).

This marathon will last till Dec 2016/Jan 2017, meanwhile also HGH (4iu), cals from diet will rise too... more hormones more food!

I think that in the future i will do something like that but with less drugs (and more effective), speaking with Jizmo (thanks m8 for the help!), i will just keep Test Tren NPP Mast DHB, some oral, and will keep rising drugs every 4/6 weeks.

[herraisland]

This was popular in the UK in the 90's, the protocol would be 3 weeks sus,decca,dbol,3weeks prop, tren etc, 4 weeks off and start again.

The pros would talk about this, altho I doubt that any took more than a couple of weeks off....

Worked quite well...

deca only 3 weeks ?

[theworm]

I'm looking at a health aspect.  My hdl drops so low while on, and I'm scared to have to depend on a weekly needle from here on out.  Not the thought of injecting but just that I have to and would need to.  There's gotta be a healthier option?  One solid cycle a year with pct?

Fuck.  I'm off everything right now X 3 weeks and feel tired, irritable etc.  I have a new baby at home so some of this may be that or my pct is shit at 37 years old now.  But, I want to be around in 30 years and a hdl of 17 is not good!

[PizzaTrenSlin]

You can still run Test and Mast without ruining your hdl... and recovering

[Jizmo]

i know a guy who has been on just 1.4g of gear (no tren) for a couple months and his HDL is 0 (yes, zero) and his LDL is over 200 LOL
some guys just dont have the genetics for abuse


well, who am i to talk big, my HDL is single digits too (gotta admit though, i can count the weeks ive been off tren during the last 2 years on pretty much one hand lol)

[theworm]

i know a guy who has been on just 1.4g of gear (no tren) for a couple months and his HDL is 0 (yes, zero) and his LDL is over 200 LOL
some guys just dont have the genetics for abuse


well, who am i to talk big, my HDL is single digits too (gotta admit though, i can count the weeks ive been off tren during the last 2 years on pretty much one hand lol)

I believe test lowes hdl the least...

[Jizmo]

its all dose dependent... plus more androgenic means usually hdl suffers more
estrogenic compounds can actually beneficial to a certain degree... slightly supraphysiological levels of estrogen are beneficial towards lipids

[Gainsi]

What do you guys conclude? Is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off on TRT dose test e 200mg a week year round with 4 weeks of blasting short esters and dropping them for 4 weeks worth it?