Last week prep and diuretics

[GWYAD]

I have searched this site and while there are lots of discussion of diuretics, it is all piecemeal. There do not seem to be any systematic formulas. By formula I mean something that integrates all three categories of diuretics and introduces them gradually into your body.

I was given a systematic formula that worked great for me. I came in shredded and won the show. However, this was 24 years ago.

I am much, much older now and am getting back on stage in a month. I am competing in the masters division (over 50) What worked for me 24 years ago may not work now.

Please be so kind as to critique my strategy.

First, some background before getting to diuretics. You must be in shape (4% bfat) 10 days out. If you are not, nothing can fix that.
Next, what is your diet strategy for the last 10 days? I depleted and loaded 6 times and it worked once for me. What works for me is to drop my carbs to 200 10 days out, and slowly raise them back up.

9 days out I introduced an Aldosterone blocker (Spiro) at 25 mgs and titrated up to 100 over 4 days. I then introduced a thiazide at 25 mgs and titrated that up to 100. Thursday and Friday I took 100 mgs of each. Friday night I took a half tab of Lasix, and another half the morning of prejudging. I also ran 50 mgs each of Spiro/Thiazide.

I came in with shredded glutes and beat bigger guys on my conditioning.

However, as I said, I am much older know. I don't think running that much for that long is a good idea. Here is what I had in mind instead: Start w/ 50 mgs of spiro, then 75 the next day. Introduce a thiazide at 25 mgs, then 50 then 75.

I could time this so that I am at 75/75 on Friday, or I could go 75/75 on Thursday/Friday. 

I don't cut water until Friday night and I reduce salt for 2 days, but not completely. I usually have some salt before prejudging.

Please let me know what you think. If you think I am an idiot, OK, but you will have to get in a long line (my wife is at the front).

Thank you very much.

[IroNat]

Listen to your wife. 

[GWYAD]

Listen to your wife. 

Does anyone have an answer that is NOT completely retarded?

[IroNat]

Does anyone have an answer that is NOT completely retarded?

"If you think I am an idiot, OK, but you will have to get in a long line (my wife is at the front)."

Your wife is the smart one in the marriage isn't she?  Yep.

[Shawnwhite]

What's are you taking cycle wise?

[GWYAD]

First 8 weeks 700 test e, 500 mast, 450 NPP, 500 primo e. Occasional anavar, 4-5 ius GH (pharm)

Last 4 weeks I added 500 mg tren ace. 6 iu's GH.

Next 4 weeks 700 test ace, 700 mast prop, 700 tren ace, 50 winstrol and 50 var per day. 50 Proviron 100 primo ace oral.

1 Adex every other day, will increase, 20 mgs Nolvadex/day. No slin.

[Shawnwhite]

That stack sounds perfect

[GWYAD]

Thanks.....numbers are creeping up a bit, but at my age I have to be mindful.

[AbrahamG]

To each his own.  That is way too much gear for a man of your age.  Not too mention the dangers of diuretics.  With that out of the way, best of luck in competition and in health.

[GWYAD]

You are correct, sir....that is why I call this sport the sickness.

Going to get some labs soon.

[dgrippe]

I would do 40mg of furosemide + 100mg of potassium upon waking on friday (contest on saturday) and repeat with the last sip of water (considering water cut friday evening). Half dose (20mg+50mg) upon waking on show day. Don't like to use diuretics for longer then 2-3 days, this shit is dangerous.

[GWYAD]

I would do 40mg of furosemide + 100mg of potassium upon waking on friday (contest on saturday) and repeat with the last sip of water (considering water cut friday evening). Half dose (20mg+50mg) upon waking on show day. Don't like to use diuretics for longer then 2-3 days, this shit is dangerous.

Are you saying to only use Lasix, or to use it as part of the spiro/thiazide stack? I have had terrible results using Lasix alone. With the Spiro/thiazide base 20 at night and 20 before pre judging worked well. I did not use any potassium due to the spiro base.

I am also going to use anavar to maintain fullness.

Thanks!

[illuminati]

Without pics to back up these protocols
On contest day it’s fairly meaningless

It’s easy to post all sorts of doses & regimes

Contest day condition is where it counts.

Be There / Be Back posted his.

And without knowing or seeing what condition you’re in before using diuretics
How can we know if it was
1, successful
2, worthwhile taking them

Sure diuretics work & can work very well - Though Too many other factors involved
to just dish out Random usage advice.
It’s meaningless.

Good luck to all that use them - only get someone who’s honest about your condition
& Hopefully knows what he’s telling you & why to do it.

[lilhawk1]

First of all, you might not even need a diuretic.  Assuming you dieted correctly, and rid yourself of all subq fat, which a lot of guys don't do, and attempt to make up for sloppy dieting by abusing diuretics.  Keep it simple, the body does not like dramatic changes, especially the last week before the show.  What has worked very well is cutting water out Friday night, only sipping when thirsty, then take a 1/2 tab of dyazide that night before bed.  In the morning, based on your look, you may or may not need the other 1/2 tab.  Very simple, and very effective.  Diuretic for an entire week, or even a few days, simply are not needed, and are very dangerous.

[GWYAD]

Good points, guys. I am in pretty good shape right now, approaching 5% abs, legs, glutes either shredded or coming in. I am 3 weeks and 2 days out.

I try to be pretty much ready 10 days out, drop carbs to 200 or so and just gradually raise them. I don't do anything crazy with water or sodium...reduce sodium a bit Thursday cut back water a bit Friday after 5.

That has gotten me about 90% there, moderate/slowly titrated spiro and thiazide worked well for me. The last time I ran it it was a program given to me by an IFBB pro and was more aggressive. Titrated up over 8 days and ended up at 100 mgs of each compound on Thursday and Friday. I did not really cut anything out, kept full water and 700 grams of carbs on those day, which is what kept me from being flat. I was the best conditioned guy on stage that day, I lost the Overall to the heavyweight. He was 260 lbs and trained at the gym sponsoring the show. I beat a guy who placed 7th at Nationals, but he was a bit off.

I do not have enough size to ever turn pro (213 lbs) but I do have way better conditioning. Of course I consider conditioning in the IFBB to be terrible.

This time, based upon advice like yours I am being more conservative. 50 spiro on Tuesday, 75 on wed-fri. 25 Thiazide on wed, 50 Thursday and 75 Friday.

If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly, the better my condition, the less I need, yes?

[illuminati]

Good points, guys. I am in pretty good shape right now, approaching 5% abs, legs, glutes either shredded or coming in. I am 3 weeks and 2 days out.

I try to be pretty much ready 10 days out, drop carbs to 200 or so and just gradually raise them. I don't do anything crazy with water or sodium...reduce sodium a bit Thursday cut back water a bit Friday after 5.

That has gotten me about 90% there, moderate/slowly titrated spiro and thiazide worked well for me. The last time I ran it it was a program given to me by an IFBB pro and was more aggressive. Titrated up over 8 days and ended up at 100 mgs of each compound on Thursday and Friday. I did not really cut anything out, kept full water and 700 grams of carbs on those day, which is what kept me from being flat. I was the best conditioned guy on stage that day, I lost the Overall to the heavyweight. He was 260 lbs and trained at the gym sponsoring the show. I beat a guy who placed 7th at Nationals, but he was a bit off.

I do not have enough size to ever turn pro (213 lbs) but I do have way better conditioning. Of course I consider conditioning in the IFBB to be terrible.

This time, based upon advice like yours I am being more conservative. 50 spiro on Tuesday, 75 on wed-fri. 25 Thiazide on wed, 50 Thursday and 75 Friday.

If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly, the better my condition, the less I need, yes?

Sounds like you’re getting in & have previously achieved a good level of dry tight condition.
Personally without seeing you & knowing a bit more.
There are just to many variables to just give out random info / advice especially not when you
Say you’ve alrrady achieved good conditioning.

I think it’s best you stick with what you know & has worked previously for you.
Why would you take advice / try stuff off random unidentified people on the internet
It’s not worth the risk.

Good luck.

[GWYAD]

Sure, that makes sense. There are a lot of very experienced posters here....well, there used to be, so I wanted to pick their brains. The consensus here is to use a more conservative program than what I used before. Of course some programs, for example the one BFG cited about the top 10 Olympic placer used way way mre Lasix then I would ever use.

I have a photo shoot scheduled when I am 10 days out. The plan is to be in very good shape and use a very conservative spiro/thiazide stack.

I will try and post up some pics when I am 10 days out.

[illuminati]

Sure, that makes sense. There are a lot of very experienced posters here....well, there used to be, so I wanted to pick their brains. The consensus here is to use a more conservative program than what I used before. Of course some programs, for example the one BFG cited about the top 10 Olympic placer used way way mre Lasix then I would ever use.

I have a photo shoot scheduled when I am 10 days out. The plan is to be in very good shape and use a very conservative spiro/thiazide stack.

I will try and post up some pics when I am 10 days out.

Ok.
We’ll wait for the pics.

Like I said I’m not about to make any sort of recommendations
Without knowing or having worked with someone previously
That close to a competition & involving the last few days contest prep
Far to risky in so far as getting it right or wrong.

[GWYAD]

Ok.
We’ll wait for the pics.

Like I said I’m not about to make any sort of recommendations
Without knowing or having worked with someone previously
That close to a competition & involving the last few days contest prep
Far to risky in so far as getting it right or wrong.

Sure, that makes sense.

[dgrippe]

Are you saying to only use Lasix, or to use it as part of the spiro/thiazide stack? I have had terrible results using Lasix alone. With the Spiro/thiazide base 20 at night and 20 before pre judging worked well. I did not use any potassium due to the spiro base.

I am also going to use anavar to maintain fullness.

Thanks!

I suggest to use lasix instead of sprio/thiazide. In Brazil furosemide comes with potassium associated to it. Loop diuretics are stronger but we need to use less as well. Potassium sparing diuretics are more safe yet less effective. Just my 0.02.

[GWYAD]

When I ran lasix alone it ruined me...it only works if I have a base of spiro in. What I do is crush a lasix tablet up (Friday evening) wet my finger, dab a little of the crushed powder and consume and monitor how I look. Repeat and monitor. What I will take away from you is that I may use a bit more Lasix....like I said, Lasix scares me. Not the dying part, the looking flat part, LOL.

Right now (2 weeks 5 days out) I am trying to get the last bit of fat off me. Glutes are cut...upper body is shredded but quads and lower back need to be a bit sharper. Cardio will stay high and carbs will come down a bit more, but not below 200. As far as diuretics are concerned, yes you go by how you look but you also need to make a decision as when to start. If I am really sharp 9 days out (just a little flat) I will delay their use.

As discussed, the program that worked great for me 24 years ago was aggressive. Even though I looked good it started with spiro 9 days out (titrated from 25 to 100 mgs) with a thiazide starting on Monday titrated from 25 to 100 by Thursday. You baked 100/100 Thursday and Friday.

I did not deplete/load/cut water or much salt. carbs were pretty high wed/thursd/Friday, 500 to 700. Based on my own theory, diuretics work best if you don't really cut anything. The IFBB pro who gave me the program said you can eat cookies and milk running this and still look good. He said that the Europeans, especially the Germans, started their diuretics farther out, weeks.

However, I think I am going to stay more conservative.  

[illuminati]

When I ran lasix alone it ruined me...it only works if I have a base of spiro in. What I do is crush a lasix tablet up (Friday evening) wet my finger, dab a little of the crushed powder and consume and monitor how I look. Repeat and monitor. What I will take away from you is that I may use a bit more Lasix....like I said, Lasix scares me. Not the dying part, the looking flat part, LOL.

Right now (2 weeks 5 days out) I am trying to get the last bit of fat off me. Glutes are cut...upper body is shredded but quads and lower back need to be a bit sharper. Cardio will stay high and carbs will come down a bit more, but not below 200. As far as diuretics are concerned, yes you go by how you look but you also need to make a decision as when to start. If I am really sharp 9 days out (just a little flat) I will delay their use.

As discussed, the program that worked great for time 24 years ago was aggressive. Even though I looked good it started with spiro 9 days out (titrated from 25 to 100 mgs) with a thiazide starting on Monday titrated from 25 to 100 by Thursday. You baked 100/100 Thursday and Friday.

I did not deplete/load/cut water or much salt. carbs were pretty high wed/thursd/Friday, 500 to 700. Based on my own theory, diuretics work best if you don't really cut anything. The IFBB pro who gave me the program said you can eat cookies and milk running this and still look good. He said that the Europeans, especially the Germans, started their diuretics farther out, weeks.

However, I think I am going to stay more conservative.  

“I did not deplete/load/cut water or much salt. carbs were pretty high wed/thursd/Friday, 500 to 700. Based on my own theory, diuretics work best if you don't really cut anything. The IFBB pro who gave me the program said you can eat cookies and milk running this and still look good. He said that the Europeans, especially the Germans, started their diuretics farther out, weeks.”


Great results can be achieved through deplete/load/salt load/ water dropping.
Very popular during 80s/90s in uk.

What is the rational behind the extended usage of the diuretics
As in days or weeks before ??
I’d like to know the theory behind it.

Salt / potassium balance or altering of to help achieve the tight skin shrink wrapped look
Of course very low body fat 1st is the prerequisite.

[GWYAD]

Depleting and loading is a crapshoot. It worked once for me, it did not work 5 times.

The rational behind the diuretic program is to introduce the weakest diuretic (spiro/ald. blocker) slowly titrate, then a thiazide, slowly titrate and monitor.

No drastic changes just gradual titrating and monitoring. This worked well for me.

[illuminati]

Depleting and loading is a crapshoot. It worked once for me, it did not work 5 times.

The rational behind the diuretic program is to introduce the weakest diuretic (spiro/ald. blocker) slowly titrate, then a thiazide, slowly titrate and monitor.

No drastic changes just gradual titrating and monitoring. This worked well for me.

Depleting & loading along with sodium loading works very well
Though it’s best results are achieved when being monitored by a
Honest knowledgeable 3rd party.

I still don’t get the extreme extended diuretics in the sense
That the amount / film of water your trying to remove is or should be negligible
Providing your body fat is very low & your diet / mineral balance is correct.

Using x amount of diuretics 1wk or 2wks out etc when bodyfat and mineral levels are different
To contest day not much to be gained.
Your after the look on contest day not a 1wk 2wks+ out.

Anyway as I’ve stated previously good luck
And do what you believe works best for you.

[dgrippe]

When I ran lasix alone it ruined me...it only works if I have a base of spiro in. What I do is crush a lasix tablet up (Friday evening) wet my finger, dab a little of the crushed powder and consume and monitor how I look. Repeat and monitor. What I will take away from you is that I may use a bit more Lasix....like I said, Lasix scares me. Not the dying part, the looking flat part, LOL.

Right now (2 weeks 5 days out) I am trying to get the last bit of fat off me. Glutes are cut...upper body is shredded but quads and lower back need to be a bit sharper. Cardio will stay high and carbs will come down a bit more, but not below 200. As far as diuretics are concerned, yes you go by how you look but you also need to make a decision as when to start. If I am really sharp 9 days out (just a little flat) I will delay their use.

As discussed, the program that worked great for me 24 years ago was aggressive. Even though I looked good it started with spiro 9 days out (titrated from 25 to 100 mgs) with a thiazide starting on Monday titrated from 25 to 100 by Thursday. You baked 100/100 Thursday and Friday.

I did not deplete/load/cut water or much salt. carbs were pretty high wed/thursd/Friday, 500 to 700. Based on my own theory, diuretics work best if you don't really cut anything. The IFBB pro who gave me the program said you can eat cookies and milk running this and still look good. He said that the Europeans, especially the Germans, started their diuretics farther out, weeks.

However, I think I am going to stay more conservative.  

I seems that you have everything in place. The last couple weeks are more a mind game than anything else. Keep in mind that the rebound should be fierce when diuretics are used for more than 2 days or so. I wouldn't go cold turkey on diuretics after the show otherwise the rebound could be the problem and not the peaking itself.

Good luck and keep us posted as you peak to your show.