Author Topic: Arnold Classic Europe 2018 IFBB Elite PRO; Michal Krizanek wins! (Read 8912 times)

IRON CROSS · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2018, 03:14:17 AM »

Quote from: Neptuno on October 02, 2018, 02:58:28 AM

In spanish Amateur Federation is mandatory 3 years ago...

Posedown in Arnold Classic Europe

So , this 'kills' Olympia turtles

Neptuno · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2018, 06:08:09 AM »

Krizanek, maybe he can be the first IFBB Elite PRO WORLD CHAMPION, this new event will be running in Benidorm (Spain) at the same weekend of the Amateur World Championhips (last year 79 countries competing there!)

mphgrove · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2018, 08:42:51 AM »

Quote from: stuntmovie on October 01, 2018, 05:39:00 PM

MPH, Like many others (myself included) you fail to understand that although there are two separate IFBB's ... the IFBB managed by Jim Manion is referred to as the "IFBB Professional League" and the other IFBB managed by Rafael is called "IFBB Pro Elite" and to the best of my knowledge they are both separate entities of which I am about 99.5% certain.

As of this present time it appears that the "IFBB Professional League"as managed by Jim Manion only sanctions IFBB Pro events within the US but possibly plans to expand within foreign areas.

(Didn't Chick provide MC services in a recent IFBB Pro event in England earlier this year? But I am unaware if other foreign entities are in the process of or planning to promote IFBB Pro League events within their foreign jurisdiction.)

Arnold is associated with both IFBB organizations. I suppose it is because Arnold is Arnold and also due to his past association with both Jim and Rafael.

Good point about Arnold. He stands above all this. From the way I follow it, it definitely appears that the US based IFBB is doing some bodybuilding shows overseas whereas the overseas IFBB is not doing shows in the US. It’s a great big world so time will tell who ends up being more successful. Here’s a conceptual question: is world wide bodybuilding better served via competition among organizational bodies or consolidation or cooperation (one IFBB), or is this irrelevant?

stuntmovie · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2018, 09:56:06 AM »

OK.I'll be doing my best to respond to some of the questions that you guys have posted above, but please realize that some of my responses may not be 100% accurate.

To continue with the unofficial IFBB history stuff ....

Back in the day when Joe Weider was doing his best to make the IFBB an international organization ... it appears that he had two loyal supporters.

One such supporter was based in Australia and the other someplace in Europe.

I'm pretty dumb when it comes to this part of this "a bit inaccurate history lesson" but many of Joe's adversaries were claiming that Joe had no affiiation outside of the USA and Canada ... and that any foreign affiliation that Joe claimed to have were merely rented PO Boxes where some unknown individuals would empty those boxes on a weekly basis ... but no rumors were ever propagated regarding what action was taken nor who was responsible for responding to those PO Box letter inquiries.

The above was mentioned briefly by one of Joe's opponents (there were many) who once worked for Joe. I should mention that although he was an opponent, he did mention that he held a lot of respect fot both Joe and his brother Ben who were doing their best to make the IFBB truely an international organization.

More to follow ...

stuntmovie · « **Reply #29 on:** October 02, 2018, 10:16:14 AM »

I did mention that Joe had two loyal main supporters during the early days whom I am aware of ... but I'm sure I'm overlooking others.

The two I know of were Paul Graham down there in Australia and Dr. Rafael Santonja, the present (lifetime?) IFBB Pro Elite President over 'thar' in Europe. (Spain??)

It is my belief that each of them were the principal individuals who helped Joe with this international undertaking. (But I am sure that I may be overlooking others who were involved back then.)

So Joe must have appreciated each of them enough to the point that each of them are still involved within the IFBB ... Paul in the IFBB Pro League (to the best of my knowledge) and Rafael as president of the IFBB Pro Elite organization.

TONY DOHERTY may be willing to correct some of this or simply elaborate.

If so ... Thanks, Tony!

MORE TO FOLLOW ...

stuntmovie · « **Reply #30 on:** October 02, 2018, 10:52:01 AM »

So all this 'stuff' mentioned above was occurng while Joe was physically located someplace on the East Coast of the USA (New York area??) publishing 'body-building' related magazines (RUMOR FOLLOWS) some of which were only placed on the top racks of newspaper/magazine stands to keep away from the eyes of minors.

(Can any GetBigger accurately post the titles of these magazines?)

And the following is also a BIG RUMOR ... Joe decides to close shop back east and move to California.

Some RUMOR MONGERS say that he had to move because he was in debt to one or more of the printing companies but there were a good number of indivduals who disliked Joe (and Ben as well) such as the York crew, Dan Lauri (spelling?) and a host of others who used unsubstantiated rumors as a weapon.

So all this above rumor stuff can only be substantiated if it's in the forthcoming movie.

So prior to Joe's departure, a "Blond Bomber" shows up in a litle WEIDER STORE across the street and a few stores down in a southernly direction
from Zucky's Jewish Delicatessen (old time bodybuilder's favorite place to eat within Santa Monica. The Jewish Chicken Soup was sure to cure the common cold ... Just ask Arnold the next time you see him,)

You GetBiggers know the Blond Bomber as Dave Draper whowas then training in the Dungeon ... and if don't know THE DUNGEON ... you don't know nutten!

So Dave arrives in Calfornia before Joe and Betty and stays busy in that little Weider Store mailing out Weider products.

And Joe and Betty arrive shortly thereafter and start to build an empire!

And a guy named Arnold had yet to make an appearence!

More to follow .

PS... I am bad at recalling dates!

French · « **Reply #31 on:** October 02, 2018, 11:28:45 AM »

I was at the event and this guy has the biggest arms that I ever seen.

stuntmovie · « **Reply #32 on:** October 02, 2018, 11:53:46 AM »

MPH, You asked a good question:

Question: "is world wide bodybuilding better served via competition among organizational bodies or consolidation or cooperation (one IFBB), or is this irrelevant?"

Response: Competition among organizations could be detrimental to an organization, but it is definitely beneficial fot those who participate within one or both of those organizations.

Each organization will be watching the other in an attempt to be more successful than the other ... and this usually is of great benefit for those who compete within that organization's activity.

So it is good for the competitors ... I thinlK!

I am not sure about this but I believe that Jim Manion (IFBB Pro League President) published an official statement that IFBB Pro League pros can compete in any BB organization without recompense.

(Recompense meaning without suffering any adverse action on the part of the IFPP Pro League.)

I don't believe that the IFBB Pro Elite organization feels likewise but I could be mistaken.

My personal belief is that the IFBB pro League will dominate over the IFBB Pro Elite organization if Jim Manion pursues an interest in expanding the IFBB Pro League throughout Europe and Asia.

That is a possibility as most world-wide bodybuilders are interested in competing in the IFBB Pro League Olympia rather than the IFBB Pro Elite World Championships.

But the IFBB Pro Elite organization already has its foot in the door world-wide ... so it will be an interesting situation to watch if the Pro League undertakes the task of going world wide in opposition to Pro Elite.

It's a major undertaking which I hope the Pro League will jump into with both 'feets' running!

In that case ... History can be repeating itself!

I'm a bit biased due to the fact that I've known Manion for a good number of years and believe that he has been doing a good job under adverse situations.

But if he suddenly retires, I am not aware of anyone who can step into his shoes! Who replace Jim will be an interesting topic in itself.

stuntmovie · « **Reply #33 on:** October 02, 2018, 12:04:50 PM »

Someone above mentioned that there was an IFBB Pro Elite contest planned for 2019. Please provide details.

And also that some IFBB pros outside of the IFBB Pro Elite organization willl be entering Pro Elite events.

As mentioned earlier ... I dont think that would cause any problem but it would be interesting as to whom does cross over.

I no longer follow contest results so I am unaware about the cash awards, so it could prove inteesting to learn what the organizations are paying the victors in each organization's contests.

Hell! I don't even know what monetary awards are presented to the Olympia contest winners within each of the divisions! In that regards I am as dumb as an oyster. (Thanks, Gramps!)

wes · « **Reply #34 on:** October 02, 2018, 12:32:24 PM »

Dude looks better than any of the contestants in the last Olympia.

Neptuno · « **Reply #35 on:** October 02, 2018, 01:55:32 PM »

Interesting thread

Some points:

- Paul Graham from Australia is one of the strongest IFBB Elite PRO officials, then he is against Pro League/NPC 100%

- Rafael Santonja was working hand to hand to Weider Brothers from the 80 (83-84) cause he is now 63 I think. He was elected (not given) in 2005 President. Every 4 years we got elections.

- I think somebody believes this is a war between two PROFESSIONALS leagues. No, this is not. IFBB International is the bigger AMATEUR league (so far from the second, if this second exists) so we are talking in 197 countries in the world. 2100 contests in a year. Asia and America are olimpic areas in Bodybuilding. Soon, we got an US team in Olimpic events.

- IFBB exists in USA, call IFBB Physique America, Mr Wayne Demilia president. So it´s not very difficult to know who is going to manage the PRO events from IFBB Elite PRO in USA...

- IFBB outside USA is 100% brand for the one and only. In fact, the real logo is with the real IFBB.

- But after all, the facts are the facts and we are talking about real PRO bodybuilding. Up to now in the first year, 1.000.000 $ in IFBB Elite PRO, 3,500.000 $ in Pro League. Let´s see in the second year what could happen...

- About the competitors from Pro League to IFBB Elite PRO we have several european ones... Tomas Kaspar, Piortkowiczs, Aleksei Shabunia,Vitaly Fateev, etc... and some others in different divisions even Ms Olympia Figure winners like Erin Stern is in. But this 2019 in the second year for IFBB Elite PRO, let´s see who is going to come

-

IRON CROSS · « **Reply #36 on:** October 02, 2018, 02:15:19 PM »

Ah, Mr.Paul Graham , living legend of Australian BB

mphgrove · « **Reply #37 on:** October 02, 2018, 02:35:42 PM »

The other major posters here have a slight or major bias here. I do not think I have a bias. Interesting point about amateur versus professional. I don’t think think amateur really is relevant because nobody is really challenging the other’s position on that. Professional is where the issue is.

Guess I agree that competition is a good thing. But not positive about this.
Agree that IFBB USA is very efficiently run (as is NPC).
Whether that translates to international success is a whole different story. Doubt it somehow. Multinational corporations can do it but not sure a Pittsburgh based American focused bodybuilding crew can pull this off. Ben Weider had an international perspective. Where are the Ben Weiders of today? Again, time will tell.

mphgrove · « **Reply #38 on:** October 02, 2018, 02:55:56 PM »

Curiosity question: Is Wayne DeMelia really doing shows inside USA? If so, that presents a slightly different take.

sheeeit · « **Reply #39 on:** October 02, 2018, 03:30:03 PM »

he is blessed with a small and narrow head from many years of skipping head day

stuntmovie · « **Reply #40 on:** October 02, 2018, 03:50:13 PM »

NEPTUNO, You raised a series of interesting points which I’d like to comment on.

This may be a bit boring for most of you GetBiggers, so please feel free to keep on benching or flex'n in that bathroom mirror….

OK, PAUL GRAHAM now supports Rafael’s IFBB Pro Elite organization which I was not aware of …. and Tony Doherty supports Manion’s IFBB Pro League??

It would be interesting to hear from Tony (a GetBigger) about how this is working out down under.

Based on Rafael Santonja's number of years in office as the IFBB Pro Elite President, I ASSUMED it was a lifetime appointment. Appointed by Joe himself.

I was not aware of the 4 year election policy.

I can neither agree nor disagree with you about the number of IFBB Pro Elite contests that Rafael Santonja sanctions each year because I cannot find those 2,100 events reported on any website.

And likewise for the amount of the IFBB Elite cash awards.

But, regardless, you could be correct.

When you mentioned, “Soon, we got an US team in Olimpic events.’ I have to assume that you are referring to the IFBB Pro League Olympia events that are held here in Vegas each year and that you dio not mean the world-wide OLYMPIC GAMES held every four years.

But it is still my belief that any IFBB Pro Elite member must qualify within an IFBB Pro League contest before he or she is eligible to compete in any IFBB Pro Olympia event here in Vegas except for the Amateur Olympia events which could possibly even be open to IFBB Pro Elite contenders!

That would be an interesting situation. Could a Pro in one governing body such as the IFBB Pro Elite organization compete in the NPC Amateur Olympia and possibly win an IFBB Pro League card?

Think about that!

stuntmovie · « **Reply #41 on:** October 02, 2018, 04:04:56 PM »

MPH, You mentioned Wayme Demillia's involvement,.

To the best of my long term memory it was originally announced unofficially that WAYNE would be in support of Rafael's IFBB Pro Elite organization within the confinds of the USA, but has anyone heard anything about Wayne's Elite involvement recently?

stuntmovie · « **Reply #42 on:** October 02, 2018, 04:54:17 PM »

OK, a bit of research confirms that Wayne Demillia is promoting numerous IFBB Physique America events throughout the US which claims to be the only United States affiliate to the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB) on the Amateur level and to IFBB Elite Pro on the Professional level and is under their Rules, Regulations and Constitution.

But to add a bit more confusion he does not refer to these contests as IFBB Elite Amateur contests , but he does go on to say that it "is the only United States affiliate to the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB) on the Amateur level and to IFBB Elite Pro on the Professional level and is under their Rules, Regulations and Constitution."

So once again Wayne is involved, but it seems that no one wants to delare if ithey are associated with an IFBB Pro League sanctioned vnent or an IFBB Pro Elite sanctioned event.

illuminati · « **Reply #43 on:** October 02, 2018, 05:12:28 PM »

So who out of the 2 federations can compete in IFBB pro shows & qualify for the Mr.O
Or do winners from both qualify??

My understanding was that only The manion league ones qualify.

stuntmovie · « **Reply #44 on:** October 02, 2018, 05:34:25 PM »

ILL, YES! You must qualify within an IFBB Pro League qualifier or have the proper amout of points to enter the Olympia.

You could also qualify by entering and winning an NPC Pro qualifier, but I'm no longer up to date on how that's done.

I believe that is true for all events that are contested under the IFBB Pro League Olympia title except for the Amateur Olympia which is held prior to the Pro Olympia events and APPEARS to be open to all wordl-wide contenders willing to purchase an NPC membership card ... meaning that you do not have to qualify in any contest in order to enter.

At pesent that is understandable since the NPC has yet to promote amateur events outside of the US. (To the best of my knowledge.)

That is one reason why the Amateur Olympia had so many foreign contenders this past month. There were very few last names that I ould pronounce intelligently even though I was obligated to fight/visit their neighborhoods frequently. (Enough said on that.)

So .... Those who believe that bodybuiding is dead are quite mistaken.

An ambulance could possibly be on standby but it ain't in no hurry to get here!

For some stupid reason on my part, I think that's all wishful think'n!

Competitor · « **Reply #45 on:** October 02, 2018, 05:47:42 PM »

Paul graham is a crook! He doesn’t give a shit about the athletes,he only cares about how much money he can stuff in his pockets,Aussie bbing can’t get rid of him down here cause we have no say,he keeps getting elected by other Ifbb officials ....every AUSTRALIAN bber hates Paul graham

stuntmovie · « **Reply #46 on:** October 02, 2018, 06:00:54 PM »

COMPETITOR, Yes, I have heard about that more than a couple of times, but to the best of my knowledge Weider put him in office when he was needed and no one has voted him out ... if indeed a vote was ever taken.

In many cases if you vote against an incumbant, you will find yourself OUT or on the other side of the fence.

stuntmovie · « **Reply #47 on:** October 02, 2018, 06:28:17 PM »

"IFBB” - Four simple letters in the English alphabet.

Back then, almost no one wanted to claim it, but now everyone claims to own it!

Before continuing on with this history lesson, I have to say a few words about DAVE DRAPER ... a hell of a fine individual. Kind and respectful.

When Dave was working in that little Santa Monica Weider store mailing out Weider products that were advertised in the Weider publications, he was offered and acepted an important role in a DON'T MAKE WAVES movie along with Tony Curtis and Sharon Tate.

I saw that movie and although I ain't no movie critic,I thought he did a damn good job ... and he had the opportunity to meet Sharon.

And Dave took it retty damn hard when Sharon and others were killed by Charles Manson and his followers.

A bit later Dave was starring on one of the local LA TV stations introducing old Sword and Sandle movies such as Hercues Meets The Three stooges and other numerous Steve Reeves copy-cat flickers.

And although I've never seen it, I believe he also appeared in a Beverly Hillbillies TV episode.

So Dave broke into the Hollywood scene before Arnold broke into Hercules In NY City which I've also never seen along with many millions of others who also failed to see it.

mphgrove · « **Reply #48 on:** October 02, 2018, 06:47:05 PM »

Quote from: stuntmovie on October 02, 2018, 04:54:17 PM

OK, a bit of research confirms that Wayne Demillia is promoting numerous IFBB Physique America events throughout the US which claims to be the only United States affiliate to the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB) on the Amateur level and to IFBB Elite Pro on the Professional level and is under their Rules, Regulations and Constitution.

But to add a bit more confusion he does not refer to these contests as IFBB Elite Amateur contests , but he does go on to say that it "is the only United States affiliate to the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB) on the Amateur level and to IFBB Elite Pro on the Professional level and is under their Rules, Regulations and Constitution."

So once again Wayne is involved, but it seems that no one wants to delare if ithey are associated with an IFBB Pro League sanctioned vnent or an IFBB Pro Elite sanctioned event.

I follow bodybuilding and not physique especially so maybe I am not aware of DeMelia”s shows for that reason. It’s weird that you say he’s doing numerous shows in the US. I guess it’s in the best interest of the promoters to stay somewhat vague on what you actually qualify for and don’t qualify for. Is he doing regular bodybuilding from your research or just Physique? Does he have any PRO shows on his US roster?

Neptuno · « **Reply #49 on:** October 03, 2018, 02:21:50 AM »

Quote from: stuntmovie on October 02, 2018, 03:50:13 PM

NEPTUNO, You raised a series of interesting points which I’d like to comment on.

This may be a bit boring for most of you GetBiggers, so please feel free to keep on benching or flex'n in that bathroom mirror….

OK, PAUL GRAHAM now supports Rafael’s IFBB Pro Elite organization which I was not aware of …. and Tony Doherty supports Manion’s IFBB Pro League.

It would be interesting to hear from Tony (a GetBigger) about how this is working out down under.

Based on Rafael Santonja's number of years in office as the IFBB Pro Elite President, I ASSUMED it was a lifetime appointment. Appointed by Joe himself.

I was not aware of the 4 year election policy.

I can neither agree nor disagree with you about the number of IFBB Pro Elite contests that Rafael Santonja sanctions each year because I cannot find those 2,100 events reported on any website.

And likewise for the amount of the IFBB Elite cash awards.

But, regardless, you could be correct.

When you mentioned, “Soon, we got an US team in Olimpic events.’ I have to assume that you are referring to the IFBB Pro League Olympia events that are held here in Vegas each year and that you dio not mean the world-wide OLYMPIC GAMES held every four years.

But it is still my belief that any IFBB Pro Elite member must qualify within an IFBB Pro League contest before he or she is eligible to compete in any IFBB Pro Olympia event here in Vegas except for the Amateur Olympia events which could possibly even be open to IFBB Pro Elite contenders!

That would be an interesting situation. Could a Pro in one governing body such as the IFBB Pro Elite organization compete in the NPC Amateur Olympia and possibly win an IFBB Pro League card?

Think about that!

Thanks for this post Stuntmovie this makes this thread worths.

-2.100 contests are under the IFBB (Amateur Federation) not under IFBB Elite PRO (only in PRO files). It means national and international events. For example, in Russia this 2018 calendar I think they are about 130-140 in a year. Spain rounded 100, and so... country by country.

- You can see the prizes in IFBB PRO Elite in this links :

Past events: https://eliteproifbb.com/events/category/elite-pro/list/?tribe_paged=1&tribe_event_display=past

Future events: https://eliteproifbb.com/events/category/elite-pro/ +250.000 from today to November (Asia, Europe and America)

- About Olimpic USA Team, means that, OLIMPIC IOC US Team BUT NOT IN IOG every 4 years in the mean event. It means that PASO-ODEPA (the IOC in America) will celebrate in Lima 2019 our sport, Bodybuilding like OFFICIAL SPORT in these games. And of course IFBB United States will be there.

https://www.lima2019.pe/es/deportes/panamericanos-fisicoculturismo

But in this case we are speaking about AMATEURS not for PROFESSIONALs.

- It´s a fact, IFBB Elite PRO and PRO League are different bodies from the 2017 Mr Olympia. This is the reason that IFBB Elite PRO is only one year old... And of course, an Professional Athlete in Elite PRO can not compete in Amateur NPC, and if somebody do this, he is out of IFBB Elite PRO.