So Dorian, how many sets per exercise?

[pellius]

"And how many sets per exercise?"

"Ah, ahem, we're going to do, the first exercise we're going to do 3 sets. So we are going to do a light set to get the movement, get everything, get the blood in there. A medium set, to further, you know, get the body and the mind ready. Then the last set is going to be like... like somebody's got a gun to your little baby's head. Yeah. And he's going to pull the trigger unless you fucking give 100%. Life and death. One set."

-- Dorian Yates to Brian Rose just before a leg workout.

[denarii]

2 warm up sets, 2 moderate to heavy, one 'working' set to failure.

for big muscles like the lats he might do an isolation exercise first like the nautilus machine to fatigue the lats as its so much stronger than say the arms or forearms.

[oldtimer1]

Of course he did warm up exercises when he uses 410lbs for inclines and full range leg presses with a million pounds. I don't understand the criticism of him doing warm ups. Yes, he used 135 for warm ups for inclines then 225 and finished with 315lbs. They were no where near failure. If he took 410lbs right off the rack with no warm up he would have ripped every tendon he had.

He has always been upfront that he used warm up sets even when he was using two work sets a body part when he was training for the Night of Champions. He also notes some exercises get no warm up sets after the main exercise for a body part.

Guys like John Cardillo Mr. Canada also progressed from two work sets to one. I don't think Cardillo used warm ups for the majority of his exercises but he believed in one work set for higher reps than most HIT guys.

Dave Mastorakis I think didn't use warm ups but he did most of his exercises on machines.

[tres_taco_combo]

dense older muscles responds better to mentzer style of training/yates style.

[hardgainerj]

dense older muscles responds better to mentzer style of training/yates style.

dont forget the protocol

[pellius]

dense older muscles responds better to mentzer style of training/yates style.

What do you mean? Is this something that comes from a scientific study or just your own observation, i.e., bro science?

There have been studies showing the changes in muscles as you age. You start to lose both the size and the number of fibers as you age. The decline in MGF/IGF, impaired capacity to incorporate amino acids and synthesise proteins causes a lot of the stiffness and sarcopenia one experiences as they age.

What I don't understand is why older, less capable, skeletal muscle tissue would respond better to HIT type training compare to traditional training? It would seem to me that if a certain protocol works best on aging, compromised muscles it would work even better on young muscles that respond to everything better than old muscles.

[pellius]

2 warm up sets, 2 moderate to heavy, one 'working' set to failure.

for big muscles like the lats he might do an isolation exercise first like the nautilus machine to fatigue the lats as its so much stronger than say the arms or forearms.

Are you saying that's what you do? Putting your spin of Dorian's one warm-up set, one moderate set, and one set to absolute failure?

For the legs, he did start with an isolation exercise. In this case, leg extension before going to the 45 degree leg press, and ending with the standing Hack squat. When the subject of barbell squats came up, as they always do when talking about leg training, he said he stopped doing barbell squats back in 1988. Three years before he competed in his first Mr. Olympia in 1991.

As you mentioned, he did the same for back. I wonder why not for chest? He seem to start with the incline barbell. So did Mentzer when you look at his later training videos.

Pre-exhaust for the legs and back but not for the chest.

[denarii]

Are you saying that's what you do? Putting your spin of Dorian's one warm-up set, one moderate set, and one set to absolute failure?

For the legs, he did start with an isolation exercise. In this case, leg extension before going to the 45 degree leg press, and ending with the standing Hack squat. When the subject of barbell squats came up, as they always do when talking about leg training, he said he stopped doing barbell squats back in 1988. Three years before he competed in his first Mr. Olympia in 1991.

As you mentioned, he did the same for back. I wonder why not for chest? He seem to start with the incline barbell. So did Mentzer when you look at his later training videos.

Pre-exhaust for the legs and back but not for the chest.

He did a video last year with a UK bodybuilder doing back day. It's on youtube

[denarii]

[The Scott]

Of course he did warm up exercises when he uses 410lbs for inclines and full range leg presses with a million pounds. I don't understand the criticism of him doing warm ups. Yes, he used 135 for warm ups for inclines then 225 and finished with 315lbs. They were no where near failure. If he took 410lbs right off the rack with no warm up he would have ripped every tendon he had.

He has always been upfront that he used warm up sets even when he was using two work sets a body part when he was training for the Night of Champions. He also notes some exercises get no warm up sets after the main exercise for a body part.

Guys like John Cardillo Mr. Canada also progressed from two work sets to one. I don't think Cardillo used warm ups for the majority of his exercises but he believed in one work set for higher reps than most HIT guys.

Dave Mastorakis I think didn't use warm ups but he did most of his exercises on machines.

There are times when I will employ a single high rep set (20 to 50) as a variation on H.I.T.  I don't get hurt, I get a great pump and an equally great workout.  The weight gets heavier as the reps go up and I am still working HARD by the time I reach failure.   I will also do rest/pause when I do this and I never get "stuck" under a bar because it is still relatively light. Sometimes I use pre-exhaust along with the high reps. 

If  something works for me, I use it until it no longer does then I switch to something else for a while. I have almost always returned to every method of training I have ever used, some more than others.

[Tha Grim Lifter]

Dorian said he did one main set per exercise. The first exercise of the day he would do 4 because building up to a 405 pound incline press for example took time, you can't just do 200 then 405 off the bat. After that he did one set per exercise.

He also did 2 main sets per exercise up to around 1991 then found he didn't need the second.

[The Scott]

The key to all of this is how many "sets" of drugs did he do and how often?  That's the only reason Dorian was "Dorian". 

The secret ain't a secret but they still want us to believe "genetics" is "key".  To some extent it is but just look at the beefy dykes and know that it's really the drug protocol that does the trick.

Shit, just look at Phildo Heath.  Fucking midgie manlet loaded with dope.  No drugs and Phildo would be a buck fifty.

[Mr.1derful]

The key to all of this is how many "sets" of drugs did he do and how often?  That's the only reason Dorian was "Dorian". 

The secret ain't a secret but they still want us to believe "genetics" is "key".  To some extent it is but just look at the beefy dykes and know that it's really the drug protocol that does the trick.

Shit, just look at Phildo Heath.  Fucking midgie manlet loaded with dope.  No drugs and Phildo would be a buck fifty.

Dorian out worked his competition.  That's why he won.  They all had drugs.

[Griffith]

Are you saying that's what you do? Putting your spin of Dorian's one warm-up set, one moderate set, and one set to absolute failure?

For the legs, he did start with an isolation exercise. In this case, leg extension before going to the 45 degree leg press, and ending with the standing Hack squat. When the subject of barbell squats came up, as they always do when talking about leg training, he said he stopped doing barbell squats back in 1988. Three years before he competed in his first Mr. Olympia in 1991.

As you mentioned, he did the same for back. I wonder why not for chest? He seem to start with the incline barbell. So did Mentzer when you look at his later training videos.

Pre-exhaust for the legs and back but not for the chest.

He stopped the barbell squats because of a back injury.

[The Scott]

Dorian out worked his competition.  That's why he won.  They all had drugs.

Never said he didn't work "hard".  He's like all the rest, a fucking druggie.  That is all that made him what he was. That goes for the rest of 'em.

[LurkerNoMore]

I talked with him years ago and brought up his "just one set" style.   He said he only did one "real" set.  That the other preceding sets were just to get the movement set and the body ready.  He said "you don't really think I just walk up to the bar, load it up heavy and bang reps out do you?  That would be dangerous."  Uhhh.. guess he forgot about the injuries he did have.

And people claiming genetics don't matter is full of shit.  A large portion of it is drugs, but if you are not a natural born chemical responder, then it won't matter for shit.   Look at all the people that use boat loads of drugs and still look like shit.  ESFitness claimed to use multiple grams per week and he was still a beanpole but a gunt on him.   If you can't genetically respond to chemicals or process the amount of food required to grow up in body weight, then all the drugs in the world won't cut it.

[Mr Anabolic]

1 set or 20 sets... without drugs, you'll never look like Dorian or Arnold.

[LurkerNoMore]

1 set or 20 sets... without drugs, you'll never look like Dorian or Arnold.

No. But you could look like Mike Ashley, Mike Lockett, or Mike O'Hearn.  Obviously, being named "Mike" is the biggest advantage you can have when staying natural.

[illuminati]

1 set or 20 sets... without drugs, you'll never look like Dorian or Arnold.

True.
Also without their genetics or mental attitude / work ethic
You’ll never look like them.

[JAGO]

HIT is bullshit. Casey Viator trained with the Mentzer for years and said Mike and Ray routinely did 12 to 15 sets per bodypart

[Mr Anabolic]

True.
Also without their genetics or mental attitude / work ethic
You’ll never look like them.

Lots of people have the work ethic.  Genetics and drugs are the most important.  Even those with good genetics can look like nothing when they're off gear.  Look at Arnold when he was off... just big biceps.  

IMO, how the users body utilizes the drugs could be the most important factor of all.

[The Scott]

HIT is bullshit. Casey Viator trained with the Mentzer for years and said Mike and Ray routinely did 12 to 15 sets per bodypart

I saw Viator and both Mentzers train at the original Gold's one day.  They didn't do 12 to 15 sets per bodypart.  Their workout was intense, brutal and of very short duration. They were very strong and their builds reflected this.  The only other thing that comes to mind about the three of them right now is this:

All three of them were quite short.

[orion]

I saw Viator and both Mentzers train at the original Gold's one day.  They didn't do 12 to 15 sets per bodypart.  Their workout was intense, brutal and of very short duration. They were very strong and their builds reflected this.  The only other thing that comes to mind about the three of them right now is this:

All three of them were quite short.

And two out of three are dead.  Too soon?

[The Scott]

And two out of three are dead.  Too soon?

I think all three are dead now.  Unless I am  mistaken (it happens!), Casey passed a few years ago.

[Dave D]

What do you mean? Is this something that comes from a scientific study or just your own observation, i.e., bro science?

There have been studies showing the changes in muscles as you age. You start to lose both the size and the number of fibers as you age. The decline in MGF/IGF, impaired capacity to incorporate amino acids and synthesise proteins causes a lot of the stiffness and sarcopenia one experiences as they age.

What I don't understand is why older, less capable, skeletal muscle tissue would respond better to HIT type training compare to traditional training? It would seem to me that if a certain protocol works best on aging, compromised muscles it would work even better on young muscles that respond to everything better than old muscles.

You're combating bro science with your own bro science.

Nice