Author Topic: Stock Market discussion  (Read 51997 times)

SOMEPARTS

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #150 on: January 28, 2021, 06:39:22 PM »

except you missed the years that were  Shemitah that nothing happened



Okay....BUT...the more recent ones....1987 Black Tuesday, 1994 Bond Market, 2001 Dot Com Bust/911 and 2008 Great Recession are enough to raise an eyebrow. That's every time since 1987 except for 2014....but 2010-2015 you had ZIRP and other measures to keep things going because things in 2008 got a bit out of hand.

SOMEPARTS

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #151 on: January 28, 2021, 09:09:18 PM »
Starting to look like they want to blame a crash on some Reddit nerds making some $$$. The reporting on the issue is very suspect.


Les Grossman

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #152 on: January 28, 2021, 09:41:40 PM »
Interesting Read:

This isn't financial advice and my opinion and analysis is presented for entertainment value, whether you have a long or short position in the market today or are just watching what's happening and trying to understand it, try to have some fun and appreciate the unprecedented historical events happening. Before making any investment assess what level of risk you can take and do your own research and find a financial advisor you can trust.

At the center of the current situation in the stock market is GameStop stock. The reason GameStop is at the center is because it was a struggling business which hedge funds (large organized investment institutions) figured was going to go bankrupt, so they short sold the stock to try to make a profit (they borrowed shares of the stock and then immediately sold the stock, agreeing to deliver the stock at an unspecified date in the future, anticipating being able to buy shares later at a lower price and profit.)

The short sellers who did this trade shorted over 100% of the available shares, about 140% of the float of shares were shorted when this story started picking up steam. Contrary to some media reports, this short interest hasn't been covered, its actually expanding, financhill.com reports that 250% of the float is currently shorted, meaning existing shorts actually doubled down.

You might ask how is it even possible that 250% of the float got shorted in the first place. The answer should be that it shouldn't ever have been, it was extremely risky to do, it possibly was illegal to do, and it most definitely should have been illegal to do. But it happened anyways. (1)
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Anonymous (ID: 8uFb90VE) 01/28/21(Thu)03:27:08 No.▶
>>26798728 >>26800330 >>26804828
Now, back in the summer, a few smart value investors like Michael Burry of the Big Short fame and RoaringKitty on YouTube saw this level of short interest and decided to start buying stock, recognizing that the price of the shares had been artificially driven down by the high level of short interest and that the fundamental qualities of the business were actually a lot healthier than the share price reflected, so they started buying up stock.

Then once these smart investors made these purchases, other people started to follow suit, either because they saw their analysis of the stock and agreed with it and bought in, or simply because they saw the stock trending in an upwards direction in bought in. Doesn't really matter. Then other events happened which drove the stock price up higher, like Chewy executives getting involved with the company and GameStop having a good winter because of the new console launches.

At no point in this situation did the short interest decrease significantly, in fact its only increased relative to the float. And the price has absolutely skyrocketed during that time.

Because the short sellers are contractually obligated to buy the stock back at some point, those holding the stock can essentially dictate the price that needs to be paid for it through the market. And since the short interest is so high, those obligated to buy back the stock might not even have enough money to even cover it if they started buying immediately. (2)
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Anonymous (ID: EubbCcoS) 01/28/21(Thu)03:27:59 No.▶
>>26802450 >>26804196
>>26797983 (OP)
i didnt read any if that but now i want to go watch the big short again
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Anonymous (ID: 8uFb90VE) 01/28/21(Thu)03:28:08 No.▶
>>26798728 >>26800330 >>26804828 >>26806934
Now you might ask, if the funds who were short on gamestop cannot cover their obligations, what happens. Well, because they are contractually obligated, if they cannot continue to post collateral with the institutions they sold the stock short through to cover their rising debts (meeting the margin call), they will be forcibly liquidated in order to try to cover. But since they are short well over 100% of the stock, they can't cover. So even after they are liquidated, there will still be an unfulfilled obligation, which would be assumed by their prime broker. Prime brokers are investment banks who take on risks like this for hedge funds in the event that the fund makes bad trades and is forcibly liquidated. Because of the 2008 crash (when Bears Stearns failed) counterparty risk is now usually spread out, it's not assumed just by one bank on behalf of one fund, but by multiple banks to reduce the risk of any one bank failing because of bad trades made by one hedge fund.

However, the level of current exposure the banks have is actually mind blowingly large, and I'll explain why.

The fund who took the most prominent short position against GameStop in the media is Melvin Capital. Melvin Capital is one of the most known hedge funds that specialize in short selling. They have historically been very profitable for their clients, to the point that there is such a demand from investors (called limited partners in this situation) that the fund has turned away many clients in the past because they don't need them. This led to a rise in copycat funds who essentially just copy everything that Melvin does and get people who want to invest with Melvin but can't to invest with them. (3)
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Anonymous (ID: 8uFb90VE) 01/28/21(Thu)03:29:16 No.▶
>>26798594 >>26798728 >>26800330 >>26802795 >>26804828 >>26808275
So if Melvin's risk is absorbed by 2 or 3 banks acting as prime brokers for Melvin, the counterparty risk for the trades made by Melvin actually spreads out to increase exposure to potentially every large investment bank which acts as a prime broker for hedge funds, because if they don't have exposure to Melvin's risk, they likely have exposure to other funds which copy Melvin.

But the story doesn't stop there. Because the price squeeze on the GameStop short sellers is enormous and theoretically infinite, GameStop stock is essentially just a money printer which has continually rising value in the market. Because the value of the equity continues to increase, GameStop shareholders are able to borrow more and more money against GameStop stock on margin through their brokers. Recognizing the financial reasons why this trade has gone so successfully in their favor, many of these traders are now using either more of their money or more money borrowed against GameStop stock (which is effectively a money printer) to also buy up stock in other heavily shorted companies to also apply pressure to those short sellers.

So the situation is quickly becoming one where the short sellers cannot cover even their position in GameStop let alone all of their other short positions because they just don't have enough money. As long as the stock holders continue to hold, the short sellers will not be able to meet their obligation, the value of the stock will continue to increase, the amount of money that can be borrowed against GameStop stock will increase, that borrowed money will then be used to further increase the pressure on other short sellers. (4)

So the end result of all of this is likely going to be that every single investment bank in the country with exposure to this risk, which could be every single investment bank in the country, is forcibly liquidated. It's an even worse situation for the banks than the housing crash because in 2008 their level of exposure was actually limited, in this situation it is theoretically unlimited.

Check all of the big investment bank stocks, they've all been down for several days in a row. At this point in the game, it seems very likely that they're going straight into the ground. Power to the players.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #153 on: January 28, 2021, 11:07:56 PM »
Looks like the damage from this ran deeper than most realized. It was crashing the system and clearing houses couldn't fulfill the settlements fast enough to pay people

MAXX

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #154 on: January 29, 2021, 12:41:57 AM »
Yes, quite interesting




What's happening is more general public/ or rather larger groups of people in internet groups got an eye for the inside game of the wallstreet manipulators, ganged up, and used their own game against them. Force of the masses basically.

Because of this, the manipulators tries to protect their own by setting restrictions on the trader apps.

SOMEPARTS

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #155 on: January 29, 2021, 07:05:48 AM »











El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #156 on: January 29, 2021, 07:20:32 AM »
Yes, quite interesting




What's happening is more general public/ or rather larger groups of people in internet groups got an eye for the inside game of the wallstreet manipulators, ganged up, and used their own game against them. Force of the masses basically.

Because of this, the manipulators tries to protect their own by setting restrictions on the trader apps.

Its more than a few reddit users.  To make a stock go up billions meant some large pockets were involved.  Some very rich people played this game as well.

Les Grossman

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #157 on: January 29, 2021, 07:34:59 AM »
When people were unable to pay their mortgages, bills etc. and losing their homes during COVID the government took 6 months to send them help, in the form of a $600 check.

As people continued to struggle to meet ends during this pandemic the government withheld relief checks for a purely political purpose. To this day the second round of relief help is still being held up by the government. Those relief checks are rumored to be $1,400 and have been held for close to 6 months. To date there has been no discussion of investigating why the relief money was purposely held back from the public.

When Wall Street billionaires were at risk of losing money yesterday the government stepped in to protect them within hours. They illegally shut down free market stock trading and shielded their billionaire donor friends. Before noon yesterday politicians were calling for an investigation and new regulations to protect hedge funds and hedge fund managers. Every MSM outlet covered this story to some degree yesterday.

And the relief checks for the public are still waiting.

Now explain to me how that is a government “for the people?”

Palumboism

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #158 on: January 29, 2021, 07:44:26 AM »
One thing "Wall Street" learned this week is they can shake this market with impunity.  I'm not sure most Boomers, getting ready to retire, can bare the sea sickness the market is getting ready to unleash on them. 

Trump kept the rocking of the market in check, but Biden doesn't consider that important.  Short sellers are going to have some fun over the next few years.  Get ready for the roller coaster ride.  Most Boomer will get tired of the volatility and decide to sit on the sidelines.

I don't believe buy and hold is a good strategy with the coming stormy market.  FANG stocks are probably an exception and you will see many take refuge in them from the rest of the market.

Be very cautious of oil stocks.  The news about electric cars coming out of all the auto companies will destroy the business of great oil stocks like Exxon and Chevron.



 

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #159 on: January 29, 2021, 07:45:50 AM »
Its more than a few reddit users.  To make a stock go up billions meant some large pockets were involved.  Some very rich people played this game as well.


It’s ridiculous that people buy into the story that it was some Reddit users. To push the price up that much requires serious money.

Just the fact that the media is pushing that narrative tells you that there’s a lot more going on.

TheGrinch

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #160 on: January 29, 2021, 07:54:07 AM »

It’s ridiculous that people buy into the story that it was some Reddit users. To push the price up that much requires serious money.

Just the fact that the media is pushing that narrative tells you that there’s a lot more going on.

100%... most people don't know how much money it would take to make a short squeeze happen.... someone/something else is at play here... not some random users on a Reddit board


loco

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #161 on: January 29, 2021, 08:02:37 AM »

Les Grossman

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #162 on: January 29, 2021, 08:03:06 AM »
I think I read that the WSB has 3 million members.

If they pooled money, stuck together, and have Elon Musk and the Chewy.com owner on board they could pull this off.

They higher GameStop climbs, the higher they can buy on margin.

mac33

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #163 on: January 29, 2021, 08:55:23 AM »

evacnam

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2021, 09:01:10 AM »
Im just curious, has anyone on here made $$ from following stocks on reddit?

I made  PILES of pretend money
wonder if welfare would back me on a purchase?  :D ::)

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #165 on: January 29, 2021, 09:04:23 AM »
Im just curious, has anyone on here made $$ from following stocks on reddit?

I made  PILES of pretend money
wonder if welfare would back me on a purchase?  :D ::)

Funny enough I bought American Airlines stock months ago at $9 per share because eventually covid will end and it will sky rocket.  It was at $17 for a while now and jumped over $20 from this reddit thing. I didn't sell.  It should get back to $40 by end of year once travel gets back to normal.

evacnam

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #166 on: January 29, 2021, 09:05:57 AM »
Funny enough I bought American Airlines stock months ago at $9 per share because eventually covid will end and it will sky rocket.  It was at $17 for a while now and jumped over $20 from this reddit thing. I didn't sell.  It should get back to $40 by end of year once travel gets back to normal.

hmmm so you look like you do, make great money from stonks and score hot women

,................................bah go play in traffic  :D :D

mac33

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #167 on: January 29, 2021, 09:06:18 AM »

mac33

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #168 on: January 29, 2021, 09:25:48 AM »

OlympiaGym

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #169 on: January 29, 2021, 10:47:18 AM »
Portnoy is starting to fly too close to the sun. He’d best be careful.

tommywishbone

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #170 on: January 29, 2021, 10:49:12 AM »
I love these Reddit guys!   

I now (finally) understand exactly what they did. 

True getbig caliber individuals.
a

OlympiaGym

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #171 on: January 29, 2021, 11:09:22 AM »
Yup.

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #172 on: January 29, 2021, 12:32:11 PM »
Robinhood did what they had to do.  They couldn’t cover any of the trades yesterday so they had to pause. They got $1 billion in Vc money last night so they could cover.  It wasn’t a conspiracy.  They would have crashed themselves if they didn’t stop trading.

mac33

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #173 on: January 29, 2021, 12:44:37 PM »
And selling info to hedge funds has nothing to do with them stopping buying of Gamestop shares...

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Stock Market discussion
« Reply #174 on: January 29, 2021, 01:17:56 PM »
And selling info to hedge funds has nothing to do with them stopping buying of Gamestop shares...

Robinhood has to cover all trades and had no way of executing them.  They operate in a strange way.  They don't work like a normal brokerage.