Author Topic: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?  (Read 17434 times)

anvil

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2019, 09:03:22 AM »
The oldtimers from the 40s and early 50s knew how to train without drugs.

Look to their routines for advices if you are a natty.

Reeves, early Reg Park, Eiferman, Grimek, Clancy Ross, the old York routines, etc.

Don't use a pre-contest routine for general training.

Any training regimen devised during the drug era is not optimal for nattys.  Mentzer was on a load of drugs.

Yates was on a load of drugs.  Arnold was on drugs.  Why would you think you can train like them if you are not on drugs?

If you are a drug user then you can have success with just about any training routine.



It's funny how most people don't realize that the best naturals from the 1950's look identical to the best naturals today.  No difference whatsoever.


The only changes in bodybuilding over the last several decades are the drugs.  Training itself hasn't evolved even one percent.

IroNat

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 09:07:12 AM »
Blah.. Blah.. Blah. You're the King of bro science this must be why we see more older people doing high reps and frequent training.
Most older lifters can't do heavy weights or heavy duty bullshit. Maybe you're super man. Look at mentzer later on both brothers or even yates. They could not train like that for ever. Your average guy in the Gym who has worked hard all his life has most often injuries. Back or knees. But Let's get them on heavy duty.. 😆

I'm shocked Ponal.

And here I thought we were the closest of friends...

BBSSchlemiel

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 10:48:27 AM »
It's funny how most people don't realize that the best naturals from the 1950's look identical to the best naturals today.  No difference whatsoever.


The only changes in bodybuilding over the last several decades are the drugs.  Training itself hasn't evolved even one percent.

The training changed, from full body to split routines.

tres_taco_combo

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 11:02:06 AM »
The training changed, from full body to split routines.

solid post

ponal

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2019, 11:28:04 AM »
I'm shocked Ponal.

And here I thought we were the closest of friends...
Told you before numb nuts.. I have no friends!

Griffith

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2019, 11:33:41 AM »
Yes, the shoulders are not meant to carry heavy weights for long periods of time.  20 Years ago Matt Furey had people doing "Combat Conditioning" which consisted of doing thousands of Hindu pushups and squats daily.  The people who followed those routines for years are wrecked now.

Really?

Those body weight exercises wrecked their joints?

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 02:17:02 PM »
Really?

Those body weight exercises wrecked their joints?
Fuck yes they did if they did that many reps.  I've seen guys on Youtube talk about wrecking their shoulders with that volume on bodyweight exercises.  Gymnasts are usually shot by 25.

joswift

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2019, 02:47:22 PM »
Fuck yes they did if they did that many reps.  I've seen guys on Youtube talk about wrecking their shoulders with that volume on bodyweight exercises.  Gymnasts are usually shot by 25.

I thought that was just horses...

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2019, 03:08:50 PM »
I thought that was just horses...
Or sent to the glue factory.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2019, 03:11:09 PM »
Check out the Y page training log for real bad ass training in real life. 

oldtimer1

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2019, 04:16:06 PM »
But do you think it's worth it? The "additional" gains you think you would have made compensate for the investment of more of your life? Have you tried additional volume?
I was never a good responder no matter what protocol I used. It didn't matter if I trained 6,5,4,3 times a week. 10 sets, 5 sets, two sets. I've noticed no difference in my physique training two times per week other than having more time to do other things. So I train two times/week and read, play chess more, spend time with family, and owning tiny tits on GetBig  ;) .

That was probably one of my main impetus for me cutting back so drastically on volume. I wasn't going to looked jacked no matter what I did so why bother? At least I didn't get burned out and have been training with weights nonstop for 48 years. My main goal now is to able to climb a flight of stairs without passing out and not having a pot belly.



You remind me of Arthur Jones saying in effect that everything has a price and everything has a value. He then went on to say that if hours a day in a gym is what it took for a good physique it wasn't worth it.

The overwhelming amount of successful bodybuilders have used volume. Most of the bodybuilders Jones used to push his machines were volume trainers. Maybe the most famous was Sergio. The deception was the weeks he spent in Florida was the reason for his success. No, he trained with volume prior to going to Florida and with volume after. Many can testify to that fact that have been in the gym with him.

  Viator the poster child for Nautilus got into his best ever condition using volume and plenty of it for the 1982 Olympia. I was in communication with a guy that was in the gym many a time with Viator. He said he was counting 15 sets a body part and more. Even Mentzer commented that Viator was using more sets after leaving employment with Nautilus.

 Mentzer was using up to four sets a body part but counted one or two work sets according to my source who was in the gym with him.  Joe Means the guy used in El Darden's book is often used as a Nautilus success story. He said in an interview that he used volume using super sets, tri set and giant sets prior to show in an interview with Bill Reynolds. Another guy I was in communication with. Yes, he used Nautilus machines along with barbells, dumbbells and typical pulleys.

 Does low sets work? Of course it does. Maybe the biggest example is Dorian Yates who trained 45 minutes to an hour four times a week to win the Olympia.

Bill Pearl said that if you trained to failure all the time eventually training would be so hellish that it would lead to missed training days. He said in effect that training consistency is an important part of success. Another famous bodybuilder named Padilla said he tried heavy duty but again said in effect he started to dread training. He also said he didn't see any significant gains.  Padilla said he was using heavy weights and not taking it easy.

 All of this leads to another point. Should we be taking training advice from bodybuilding drug users?  Can they illustrate their bodybuilding knowledge and work ethic without the drug assist or will they look like crap?  To answer your direct question have I ever used volume?  I did when I was about 19.  I got really lean but lost strength because I wasn't using heavy weights. I couldn't because it's relatively muscular endurance training.  

tres_taco_combo

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2019, 04:22:30 PM »
combination of both can work.


also I feel posing is under rated... it is a brutal workout in self

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2019, 04:30:15 PM »
Wo drugs and garbage most of these people are shiit.   Total fail and weak fat garbage.   Soft and mentally fragile.   

Pussies.   Oh brutal shoulder workouts w few db sets.  Wwaaahhhhhh. 

Cable crossovers wwaahhhhhh.

Pathetic nonsense.

pellius

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2019, 07:44:08 PM »
You remind me of Arthur Jones saying in effect that everything has a price and everything has a value. He then went on to say that if hours a day in a gym is what it took for a good physique it wasn't worth it.

The overwhelming amount of successful bodybuilders have used volume. Most of the bodybuilders Jones used to push his machines were volume trainers. Maybe the most famous was Sergio. The deception was the weeks he spent in Florida was the reason for his success. No, he trained with volume prior to going to Florida and with volume after. Many can testify to that fact that have been in the gym with him.

  Viator the poster child for Nautilus got into his best ever condition using volume and plenty of it for the 1982 Olympia. I was in communication with a guy that was in the gym many a time with Viator. He said he was counting 15 sets a body part and more. Even Mentzer commented that Viator was using more sets after leaving employment with Nautilus.

 Mentzer was using up to four sets a body part but counted one or two work sets according to my source who was in the gym with him.  Joe Means the guy used in El Darden's book is often used as a Nautilus success story. He said in an interview that he used volume using super sets, tri set and giant sets prior to show in an interview with Bill Reynolds. Another guy I was in communication with. Yes, he used Nautilus machines along with barbells, dumbbells and typical pulleys.

 Does low sets work? Of course it does. Maybe the biggest example is Dorian Yates who trained 45 minutes to an hour four times a week to win the Olympia.

Bill Pearl said that if you trained to failure all the time eventually training would be so hellish that it would lead to missed training days. He said in effect that training consistency is an important part of success. Another famous bodybuilder named Padilla said he tried heavy duty but again said in effect he started to dread training. He also said he didn't see any significant gains.  Padilla said he was using heavy weights and not taking it easy.

 All of this leads to another point. Should we be taking training advice from bodybuilding drug users?  Can they illustrate their bodybuilding knowledge and work ethic without the drug assist or will they look like crap?  To answer your direct question have I ever used volume?  I did when I was about 19.  I got really lean but lost strength because I wasn't using heavy weights. I couldn't because it's relatively muscular endurance training.  

I think it was Dorian that pointed out that it wasn't one set to failure per bodypart but rather one set to failure per exercise with each body part requiring different movements (Bench, Incline, flies, cable).

When I train, right when I reach positive failure, a point where I cannot do another complete rep, I say to myself, "OK, now it begins." One principle that I got from Authur Jones and made the most sense was this: "As long as you are working within your functional ability; doing things that are already easy, exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing size, strength, and functional ability." If I can do 8 reps on a particular movement with a particular weight and just keep doing that over and over again, never trying for ninth rep, then it will do nothing to stimulate an adaptive response.

Now, for someone like me, approaching 60 years old, with the same diet, I have no allusions about gaining any more meaningful muscle mass. But I do it because I think there are other benefits to always trying to push yourself. Physical conditioning as well as developing physical and mental toughness. Bill Pearl is right when he says it would be hellish to stay consistent. Consistency has been my strongest point. Trudging off to the gym consistently for 47 years. But there is no way I could have maintained that consistency training, whether intensely or just going through the motions, if I had to go to the gym six days a week. I could do it if it was my profession if that's what I did for a living, but going to school, working for a living, family obligations it would get old quick. Even when I was in high school with np real demands other than school on my time I would often get burnt out going to the gym.

Remember one of Jones' basic principles was that training should be intense, short, and infrequent. Most of my life I trained three days a week by now have cut it down to twice a week.

ponal

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2019, 01:28:23 AM »
I think it was Dorian that pointed out that it wasn't one set to failure per bodypart but rather one set to failure per exercise with each body part requiring different movements (Bench, Incline, flies, cable).

When I train, right when I reach positive failure, a point where I cannot do another complete rep, I say to myself, "OK, now it begins." One principle that I got from Authur Jones and made the most sense was this: "As long as you are working within your functional ability; doing things that are already easy, exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing size, strength, and functional ability." If I can do 8 reps on a particular movement with a particular weight and just keep doing that over and over again, never trying for ninth rep, then it will do nothing to stimulate an adaptive response.

Now, for someone like me, approaching 60 years old, with the same diet, I have no allusions about gaining any more meaningful muscle mass. But I do it because I think there are other benefits to always trying to push yourself. Physical conditioning as well as developing physical and mental toughness. Bill Pearl is right when he says it would be hellish to stay consistent. Consistency has been my strongest point. Trudging off to the gym consistently for 47 years. But there is no way I could have maintained that consistency training, whether intensely or just going through the motions, if I had to go to the gym six days a week. I could do it if it was my profession if that's what I did for a living, but going to school, working for a living, family obligations it would get old quick. Even when I was in high school with np real demands other than school on my time I would often get burnt out going to the gym.

Remember one of Jones' basic principles was that training should be intense, short, and infrequent. Most of my life I trained three days a week by now have cut it down to twice a week.
Oh shut up! 😄

ponal

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2019, 01:32:38 AM »
Wo drugs and garbage most of these people are shiit.   Total fail and weak fat garbage.   Soft and mentally fragile.   

Pussies.   Oh brutal shoulder workouts w few db sets.  Wwaaahhhhhh. 

Cable crossovers wwaahhhhhh.

Pathetic nonsense.
Look at casey viator.. Was a fat mess after heavy duty & drugs... 😆

ponal

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2019, 01:52:42 AM »
bet half the Heavy duty fools believe the Colorado experiment too  ::)  is Casey wearing a hair piece in this video?  ;D

Marty Champions

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2019, 01:58:26 AM »
If you work all day on your feet that covers the volume aspect of training, so when u get home all u need is 2 sets to failure
A

oldtimer1

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2019, 04:54:20 AM »
It's funny how most people don't realize that the best naturals from the 1950's look identical to the best naturals today.  No difference whatsoever.


The only changes in bodybuilding over the last several decades are the drugs.  Training itself hasn't evolved even one percent.

Many of today's naturals aren't natural.

oldtimer1

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2019, 05:15:24 AM »
I think it was Dorian that pointed out that it wasn't one set to failure per bodypart but rather one set to failure per exercise with each body part requiring different movements (Bench, Incline, flies, cable).

When I train, right when I reach positive failure, a point where I cannot do another complete rep, I say to myself, "OK, now it begins." One principle that I got from Authur Jones and made the most sense was this: "As long as you are working within your functional ability; doing things that are already easy, exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing size, strength, and functional ability." If I can do 8 reps on a particular movement with a particular weight and just keep doing that over and over again, never trying for ninth rep, then it will do nothing to stimulate an adaptive response.

Now, for someone like me, approaching 60 years old, with the same diet, I have no allusions about gaining any more meaningful muscle mass. But I do it because I think there are other benefits to always trying to push yourself. Physical conditioning as well as developing physical and mental toughness. Bill Pearl is right when he says it would be hellish to stay consistent. Consistency has been my strongest point. Trudging off to the gym consistently for 47 years. But there is no way I could have maintained that consistency training, whether intensely or just going through the motions, if I had to go to the gym six days a week. I could do it if it was my profession if that's what I did for a living, but going to school, working for a living, family obligations it would get old quick. Even when I was in high school with np real demands other than school on my time I would often get burnt out going to the gym.

Remember one of Jones' basic principles was that training should be intense, short, and infrequent. Most of my life I trained three days a week by now have cut it down to twice a week.


I find that most fans of HIT eventually get down to working out twice a week with something like 6 exercises for one work set. They come to realize that's all they can do if they are pushing every set to absolute failure. Is this working out in an optimal way though?  If you want I can cite the study but one university back in the day wanted to see how many calories were used in a typical 12 machine Nautilus work out to failure. They found they averaged 174 calories. Doing that twice a week doesn't sound like exercising to me. Now imagine the guys that preach 4 to 6 exercises twice a week because they train so (intensely)? They must severely diet because they are not getting into condition from exercise. I don't want to get into the HIT vs volume debate but I will leave it at this. If intensity was the magic bullet we would all warm up and aim for a one rep max for every exercise because that would be the most intensity anyone could do.  One thing is factual. Arthur Jones was an out of shape shrimp who weighted under 150lbs most of his life. Those few pictures of him at a claimed 200 plus are not impressive. Another point is how strong can anyone get? If you started with 20lbs dumbbells for curls after 30 years of training are you using 100lbs for curls? Of course not. Training for a lack of a better term muscular endurance can take you further in terms of achievement goals.

a_pupil

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2019, 05:21:42 AM »
HIT was an early form of white gymcels over complicating lifting to compensate for crap genetics. In the 00s it was the doggcrapp perma bulking generation. In the 10s it's the nerds on youtube.

Just find out what works for you and keep consistent. No need to over analyse the ramblings of a crystal meth addicted guru.

BlackMetallic

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2019, 05:24:20 AM »
Volume gurus don’t have much to defend

Volume works period

I still do h.i.t but reps are 10-12

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2019, 05:28:07 AM »
HIT was an early form of white gymcels over complicating lifting to compensate for crap genetics. In the 00s it was the doggcrapp perma bulking generation. In 10s it's the nerds on youtube.

Just find out what works for you and keep consistent. No need to over analyse the ramblings of a crystal meth addicted guru.

 ;)

BBSSchlemiel

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2019, 05:32:34 AM »
HIT was an early form of white gymcels over complicating lifting to compensate for crap genetics. In the 00s it was the doggcrapp perma bulking generation. In 10s it's the nerds on youtube.

Just find out what works for you and keep consistent. No need to over analyse the ramblings of a crystal meth addicted guru.

Literal lulz!

Marty Champions

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Re: Is low-volume training correlated with mental instability?
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2019, 06:10:52 AM »
Fatigue is fatigue or fati guy

Working 10 hours you are fatigued an only have energy for one set

Or
20 sets to failure and having the day off youl be fatigued


The person who maintains higher calories will carry more muscle than a person who does 20 sets but eats 500 calories less
A