Shawn Ray Calls Out Chad Nicholls | UPDATE: CHAD NICHOLLS FULL RESPONSE!!!

[JuicedKangaroo]

There is another avenue of possibility where the coach himself doesn't know what risks are associated

Very true, in which case he likely shouldn't be advising athletes to take substances that he himself doesn't understand. 

2 Things
1, The Person Taking medication should be asking & Knowing What & Why he is taking something
2, Yes you would have an obligation to tell him what it is & if you didn’t you’d be a True Scumbag

Can’t get away from one'sown personal responsibilities- That doesn’t Excuse A Coach from his Moral Responsibilities & Expalining What & why to use something.

Well said Illuminati, agree entirely.

[wes]

Thank you Wes. More impotently I hope that your lung biopsy went okay and that you will be with us for years to come.

Thanks booty...........long complicated story but my biopsy comes up on the 17th. of this month.


LOOOOOng story which I will divulge soon if anyone is interested.............. ..dont wanna get flamed too heavy for it.

[Kwon]

Yes, Mc Fresh Wes must be with us for many many years to come!

[SAMSON123]

Posted Already

[joswift]

https://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661260.0

[SAMSON123]

https://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661260.0

I tried deleting the post once I realized it was already posted, but it would not let me.

I just deleted the contents... One of the moderators can delete this post.

[Matt]

Back in 1996, diuretic testing was instituted at the Olympia that year (Nasser failed, losing his 3rd place) and continued into the 2000s. If you recall, Cutler failed the 2001 Olympia diuretic test but after threatening with a lawsuit, retained his placing and prize money. Anyway, in order to get around the diuretic testing, word was that Chad had discovered a mercury-based diuretic that was not being tested for. If you do a basic search on mercurial diuretics and their toxicity, you can see why I believe that this was one of the main reasons so many of his clients in particular had issues.

Tom Prince stated that diuretics testing was why he was so smooth at one contest [maybe the 1999 Ironman or Night of Champions...I think it was a 1999 contest].  Then, I remember him saying that Chad found a way to get around that.  I guess he was referring to Chad's introduction of mercury-based diuretics for his athletes bodybuilders science projects. 

As for Cutler suing in 2001 over his failed diuretics test - it was because the rules stipulated that the lab testing for diuretics had to be IOC-approved.  It was not IOC-approved, so the IFBB settled before it went to court, and Cutler got his 2nd place back.  Markus Ruhl got something like his 14th place back. 

[Rambone]

Sure, but here's question for you.

If you were coaching an athlete and handed him a cup of something toxic, say a mercury based diuretic and you know that your client has no idea what it is (and possibly would turn it down if they did) - do you believe you have a moral obligation to let him know what it is, if not the possible risks associated with it?

If the answer to the above is anything but "yes," I guess the logic must be "well it's not my fault if he's stupid enough to blindly trust in me as his mentor" 

Isn't it interesting how all coaches advise on supplementation, but few have such a "body count" and are vilified for pushing the envelope.

I was just trying to work the Advil excuse into this thread somehow. I think Chad is a kidney fryer of peace...

[illuminati]

Thanks booty...........long complicated story but my biopsy comes up on the 17th. of this month.


LOOOOOng story which I will divulge soon if anyone is interested.............. ..dont wanna get flamed too heavy for it.

Hope all is going well for you.
👍🏻

[wes]

So far so good my friend.

[illuminati]

So far so good my friend.

That’s good to Hear Wes.
👍🏻💪🏻

[JuicedKangaroo]

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Kamali (I refuse to call him "King") sharing a garbage "interview" with filler questions. At least Patrick Bet David (Valuetainment) will have had pressed Chad and thrown him the hard questions.

Read any negative comments and then look for a reply from King's account. He certainly likes to talk about the mothers of strangers, pathetic!

[Matt]

I agree with your sentiment, but I think Shawn's gripe is that he (rightly or wrongly) imposed a moral responsibility on Chad to inform his athletes of exactly what they were taking and what the possible effects are. Ronnie conceded that he didn't even know what he took the night that he was on the brink of death sitting in the bathtub.

Patrick is a great interviewer, I trust that he will press Chad on doses and peculiarities such as mercury-based diuretics (which interestingly, Shawn did not bring up).

 

Sounds like a diuretics scare.

When/where did Ronnie recount this story?  I missed it.

[Van_Bilderass]

Whether Mersalyl is the cause of any of Chad's clients health problems I don't know. It caused the odd fatality due to mercury poisoning according to google. I don't know if it caused kidney damage specifically. In any case, giving it to clients, who didn't care enough to even know what it was (so some blame falls upon them too) sounds reckless in the extreme. It takes a madman to play with them in this manner. Prince was supposedly shooting speedballs and using handfuls of Advil - this excuse is seen as kind of joke here but the fact of the matter is that it's toxic. Lots of NSAIDs and other painkillers have been recalled and banned due to tons of deaths from heart attacks and organ failure.

What kind of blame could be levelled at Chad for what happened to Dallas for example? As a matter of fact you wouldn't need any kind of medical tests to know that Dallas was at risk of imminent death - ALL guys his size have a hypertrophic heart that is at risk for electrical problems and so on. The only healthy advice for him would have been to say it's over, stop bodybuilding and hope some of the changes would be partly reversible.
I didn't watch Shawn Ray's video - what is his advice for these bodybuilders? What exactly is an acceptable level of drug use according to him?

Ronnie did take an extended layoff after many Os. Other gurus like Patrick Tuor have their athletes come off while eating a low protein diet for a few months after shows. This is because prep is damaging by necessity. It can't be done completely safely.

Bodybuilding pharmacology is experimental and no one can predict what the end result will be from the combination of a wide variety of drugs in different classes. Doesn't even matter if the guru is an actual doctor. Other sports have crazy chemical experimenters too. In the early days of cycling you had cyclists using a witches brew called "pot belge", supposedly so fucked up on a combo of narcotics that if they had an accident they would lie in a ditch while their legs kept pedaling. Later you had cyclists using so much EPO that they had to sleep with heart monitors to avoid dying in their sleep.

Milos is called out here for doing dangerous things. And he did end up in the hospital several times due to drugs.
Probably had a bunch of other mishaps we don't  know about. Also supposedly used tons of narcotics. But I saw someone ask him on IG how come he is still around and not on dialysis or whatever, when many of his buddies are gone. He said it's due to leading a healthy lifestyle and having a healthy diet lol

[JuicedKangaroo]

Sounds like a diuretics scare.

When/where did Ronnie recount this story?  I missed it.

It does sound like that, perhaps a mercury based one?

It was in this episode, but unfortunately I don't have a timestamp for you my friend. Edit: 55:20

Ronnie: I got up that morning I was going to the hospital, my nutritionist talked me out of it because I thought I was dying, felt like I was dying
Ronnie: Because I had fainted the night before, I did pass out when I was putting on my tan I fell backwards in the tub. One minute I was wide awake, the next minute I was waking up in the tub like what happened.
Ronnie: I drunk a whole gallon
Patrick: So you were on diuretics?
Ronnie: Yeah well, I guess. I don't know, I can't say for sure. He was my nutritionist and he gave me everything
Patrick: He gave you everything?
Ronnie: Yeah yeah, he put something in a glass and said drink this

The blind faith on Ronnie's behalf is just baffling to me. He also states he has "1,000%" [sic] trust for Chad and did 'everything' that he told him to do.

Whether Mersalyl is the cause of any of Chad's clients health problems I don't know. It caused the odd fatality due to mercury poisoning according to google. I don't know if it caused kidney damage specifically. In any case, giving it to clients, who didn't care enough to even know what it was (so some blame falls upon them too) sounds reckless in the extreme. It takes a madman to play with them in this manner. Prince was supposedly shooting speedballs and using handfuls of Advil - this excuse is seen as kind of joke here but the fact of the matter is that it's toxic. Lots of NSAIDs and other painkillers have been recalled and banned due to tons of deaths from heart attacks and organ failure.

What kind of blame could be levelled at Chad for what happened to Dallas for example? As a matter of fact you wouldn't need any kind of medical tests to know that Dallas was at risk of imminent death - ALL guys his size have a hypertrophic heart that is at risk for electrical problems and so on. The only healthy advice for him would have been to say it's over, stop bodybuilding and hope some of the changes would be partly reversible.
I didn't watch Shawn Ray's video - what is his advice for these bodybuilders? What exactly is an acceptable level of drug use according to him?

Ronnie did take an extended layoff after many Os. Other gurus like Patrick Tuor have their athletes come off while eating a low protein diet for a few months after shows. This is because prep is damaging by necessity. It can't be done completely safely.

Bodybuilding pharmacology is experimental and no one can predict what the end result will be from the combination of a wide variety of drugs in different classes. Doesn't even matter if the guru is an actual doctor. Other sports have crazy chemical experimenters too. In the early days of cycling you had cyclists using a witches brew called "pot belge", supposedly so fucked up on a combo of narcotics that if they had an accident they would lie in a ditch while their legs kept pedaling. Later you had cyclists using so much EPO that they had to sleep with heart monitors to avoid dying in their sleep.

Well said, unfortunately.  

As for Shawn, he did not detail what is and isn't acceptable levels of drug use, conveniently.

[Van_Bilderass]

It does sound like that, perhaps a mercury based one?

It was in this episode, but unfortunately I don't have a timestamp for you my friend. Edit: 55:20

Well said, unfortunately.  

As fior Shawn, he did not detail what is and isn't acceptable levels of drug use, conveniently.

I didn't watch but Ronnie has said he wanted to go to the hospital as he felt he was dying, but Chad said no, no don't do that. Then he drank a gallon of water and made it through. I just can't understand how Chad was thinking there, there is no way he could predict for sure Ronnie would't die. Even the drinking of that amount of water quickly can be deadly by diluting electrolytes.

I remember once a friend messaged me in panic as a pro was lying in a US hotel room cramping up violently, asking me what to do. He had taken a supplement pill called star caps, IIRC, which some other pro had recommended as a diuretic. I googled it and it apparently contained an undeclared loop diuretic. All I could say is better be safe than sorry, call the ambulance if worried. What ended up happening was my friend grabbed a salt shaker off a maid's cart in the hallway and poured salt in the guy's mouth and thankfully he was fine shortly after. But it was not my advice as doing something like that could make things worse depending on a variety of factors. So I have a hard time understanding how Chad could tell an athlete in extreme distress not to call medical personnel.

Sometimes a guru could do things to save someone's life though. Milos said he stopped medical personnel from giving Mustafa Mohammed potassium as he knew Mustafa likely had elevated potassium which Milos said was later shown to be the case. Potassium could have stopped his heart. I think Shawn was involved in this episode.

[Coffeed]

I really doubt professional bodybuilders would be reckless with their body and take unknown drugs.

[JuicedKangaroo]

I didn't watch but Ronnie has said he wanted to go to the hospital as he felt he was dying, but Chad said no, no don't do that. Then he drank a gallon of water and made it through. I just can't understand how Chad was thinking there, there is no way he could predict for sure Ronnie would't die. Even the drinking of that amount of water quickly can be deadly by diluting electrolytes.

I remember once a friend messaged me in panic as a pro was lying in a US hotel room cramping up violently, asking me what to do. He had taken a supplement pill called star caps, IIRC, which some other pro had recommended as a diuretic. I googled it and it apparently contained an undeclared loop diuretic. All I could say is better be safe than sorry, call the ambulance if worried. What ended up happening was my friend grabbed a salt shaker off a maid's cart in the hallway and poured salt in the guy's mouth and thankfully he was fine shortly after. But it was not my advice as doing something like that could make things worse depending on a variety of factors. So I have a hard time understanding how Chad could tell an athlete in extreme distress not to call medical personnel.

Sometimes a guru could do things to save someone's life though. Milos said he stopped medical personnel from giving Mustafa Mohammed potassium as he knew Mustafa likely had elevated potassium which Milos said was later shown to be the case. Potassium could have stopped his heart. I think Shawn was involved in this episode.

Pretty spot on recount - I have edited my post to include a brief transcript but yeah, almost verbatim what you've remembered.

I have never heard of Star Caps, what a crazy story though. Crazy how close some of these "athletes" come to death... The part that I bolded is what puzzles me the most, just seems so extreme.

Milos, impressive. Doesn't he come from a family of medical professionals too? Perhaps him and Ameen Alai are some of the smarter (not necessarily safer) gurus?

I really doubt professional bodybuilders would be reckless with their body and take unknown drugs.

 

[illuminati]

It does sound like that, perhaps a mercury based one?

It was in this episode, but unfortunately I don't have a timestamp for you my friend. Edit: 55:20

Ronnie: I got up that morning I was going to the hospital, my nutritionist talked me out of it because I thought I was dying, felt like I was dying
Ronnie: Because I had fainted the night before, I did pass out when I was putting on my tan I fell backwards in the tub. One minute I was wide awake, the next minute I was waking up in the tub like what happened.
Ronnie: I drunk a whole gallon
Patrick: So you were on diuretics?
Ronnie: Yeah well, I guess. I don't know, I can't say for sure. He was my nutritionist and he gave me everything
Patrick: He gave you everything?
Ronnie: Yeah yeah, he put something in a glass and said drink this

The blind faith on Ronnie's behalf is just baffling to me. He also states he has "1,000%" [sic] trust for Chad and did 'everything' that he told him to do.

Well said, unfortunately.  

As for Shawn, he did not detail what is and isn't acceptable levels of drug use, conveniently.

Sorry I don’t buy Ronnie’s story completely.
He may be a bit thick but he isn’t that stupid, If he was daft enough to blindly take whatever
Was given to him without question or explanation then More Fool Him.
He has a duty of care to look after himself.

Likey scenario is that knew the possible repercussions of what he had given Ronnie
And Advised Him What To do to remedy the situation.
Again if Ronnie is that Stupid he thought he was dying & Didnt Phone the ambulance
Go to Hospital Who’s Fault is that. His.

I’m not trying to defend chad - Only these bodybuilders Blaming Him For their lack of knowledge
/ Effort To Find Out What there Taking & Why is Just Laughable when they blame him.
As we all know Bodybuilding prep at any advanced level isn’t without its potential risks
And just how far someone wants to push it just makes the odds higher.

If they wanted to use a diuretic & Not get caught in the testing it appears Chad found a way
Round it for them - Risky as it Maybe.
The demand was there & Chad supplied.

[Bevo]

It does sound like that, perhaps a mercury based one?

It was in this episode, but unfortunately I don't have a timestamp for you my friend. Edit: 55:20

Ronnie: I got up that morning I was going to the hospital, my nutritionist talked me out of it because I thought I was dying, felt like I was dying
Ronnie: Because I had fainted the night before, I did pass out when I was putting on my tan I fell backwards in the tub. One minute I was wide awake, the next minute I was waking up in the tub like what happened.
Ronnie: I drunk a whole gallon
Patrick: So you were on diuretics?
Ronnie: Yeah well, I guess. I don't know, I can't say for sure. He was my nutritionist and he gave me everything
Patrick: He gave you everything?
Ronnie: Yeah yeah, he put something in a glass and said drink this

The blind faith on Ronnie's behalf is just baffling to me. He also states he has "1,000%" [sic] trust for Chad and did 'everything' that he told him to do.

Well said, unfortunately.  

As for Shawn, he did not detail what is and isn't acceptable levels of drug use, conveniently.

No surprise, Ronnie has said numerous times he had asked flex wheeler for advice on what to take and flex told him to take this and that, and he admitted, whether he’s exaggerating or not, that he just took them without knowing what it was

In another interview with Shawn interviewed Jean Pierre Fux and he said he got a bottle of synthol which he wasn’t even sure if it was legit or not, no label, just a bottle, but injected it anyways. After doing that he had to rush into the hospital because something went wrong and he thought he was going to die

[illuminati]

No surprise, Ronnie has said numerous times he had asked flex wheeler for advice on what to take and flex told him to take this and that, and he admitted, whether he’s exaggerating or not, that he just took them without knowing what it was

In another interview with Shawn interviewed Jean Pierre Fux and he said he got a bottle of synthol which he wasn’t even sure if it was legit or not, no label, just a bottle, but injected it anyways. After doing that he had to rush into the hospital because something went wrong and he thought he was going to die

The onus still lays with the Bodybuilders they are willing to take these substances
Be they Good or Bad - More so if they don’t ask or Question what it is they Taking & Why.
If The Coaches are Lying to them & deceiving them then that’s a different matter,
As stated if taking all & everything without question then it’s down to them.

[Soul Crusher]

Kamali still looks fat and sounds bloated

[Bevo]

It does sound like that, perhaps a mercury based one?

It was in this episode, but unfortunately I don't have a timestamp for you my friend. Edit: 55:20

Ronnie: I got up that morning I was going to the hospital, my nutritionist talked me out of it because I thought I was dying, felt like I was dying
Ronnie: Because I had fainted the night before, I did pass out when I was putting on my tan I fell backwards in the tub. One minute I was wide awake, the next minute I was waking up in the tub like what happened.
Ronnie: I drunk a whole gallon
Patrick: So you were on diuretics?
Ronnie: Yeah well, I guess. I don't know, I can't say for sure. He was my nutritionist and he gave me everything
Patrick: He gave you everything?
Ronnie: Yeah yeah, he put something in a glass and said drink this

The blind faith on Ronnie's behalf is just baffling to me. He also states he has "1,000%" [sic] trust for Chad and did 'everything' that he told him to do.

Well said, unfortunately.  

As for Shawn, he did not detail what is and isn't acceptable levels of drug use, conveniently.

Got around to watching Ronnie’s interview, the guy really is either an idiot or he really doesn’t know what’s going on

He blames the surgeon for his pain and their mishap,  says he even hired an attorney, if that’s the case, should be an easy lawsuit for him. Truth is all those injuries were on him and him alone. Branch has stated he was there at the gym when Ronnie broke a screw in his back doing leg presses. This guy is a mess

Also claims he got his bf levels measured at .33 percent  even says he walks around at 300 pounds at 2 percent

Guy might be an 8 time O winner, but Jesus, he’s an idiot!!

[JuicedKangaroo]

Got around to watching Ronnie’s interview, the guy really is either an idiot or he really doesn’t know what’s going on

He blames the surgeon for his pain and their mishap,  says he even hired an attorney, if that’s the case, should be an easy lawsuit for him. Truth is all those injuries were on him and him alone. Branch has stated he was there at the gym when Ronnie broke a screw in his back doing leg presses. This guy is a mess

Also claims he got his bf levels measured at .33 percent  even says he walks around at 300 pounds at 2 percent

Guy might be an 8 time O winner, but Jesus, he’s an idiot!!

How about the part when Patrick talks about some NFL player or some shit in his book and Ronnie has no idea what he's talking about...

GHOSTWRITER OF PEACE

[Bevo]

How about the part when Patrick talks about some NFL player or some shit in his book and Ronnie has no idea what he's talking about...

GHOSTWRITER OF PEACE

  Yep, he had no idea.

Or how Ronnie said ALL his gear was prescribed and then compares baseball players cycles to bbers, and says that they don’t look like bbers...... yeah, that’s cause they don’t run the same cycles as bbers and their main emphasis isn’t on their physiques but in performance