Author Topic: Natural or not? (Read 11954 times)

HERACLES · « **on:** April 18, 2006, 08:20:47 PM »

Say youve been training for 7 years, natural, compete in natural shows. Say All of a sudden you wanted to try the "dark side" and do a couple of cycles...You relaize its not your bag, and walk away from it.

Ok, so now if you dont use again, and train "naturally" are you considered a natural? I know some natural organizations say you have tobe clean for at least 3 years.

Discuss.

Bast175 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2006, 08:25:12 PM »

I think a few years and the guy's cool to compete naturally, but doing those cycles may still have helped with his present physique, so it's hard to say.

HERACLES · « **Reply #2 on:** April 18, 2006, 08:30:11 PM »

Its something Natural bodybuilders need to think about. Becuase as you said it should be cool after a few years, but you still have a record. $:-\$

As someone else said also in another thread- amateur competitive bodybuilders need to use more gear today to compete than pros did in the 70s and 80s..I beleive this, bc at my gym some guys are just on ALOT of gear, and they look great- I wouldnt take so much gear to compete with them, so I accepted never getting super huge and super strong.

But I admire folks that do

I cant decide weather or not someone that "tries" the Dark side for a few cycles can be considered natural ever again..

Tigerman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2006, 09:02:51 PM »

People who juice occasionally claim to be able to keep some of the gains deriving from steroids.
If we trust these people, then the only naturals are those who have always been clean.

Croatch · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:19:18 PM »

You should only be considered natural, if you did just one cycle at least 11 years ago, I guess I'm natural after all. Thanks

MisterMagoo · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:33:12 PM »

if you do a cycle, you're no longer natural. you can be "clean" but you'll never be natural again. even if you diet yourself down way far after the cycle you're still on muscle memory to get it back.

ignorance · « **Reply #6 on:** April 18, 2006, 10:56:25 PM »

^ I agree.

So your natural for so many years, then you do a cycle, fuck it your not 'natural' anymore; no matter how long you have been 'off the juice' Natural Means "NATURAL", not, now I've seen the Emperor's ugly face, I want to go back to being clean. Doesn't work that way.

There are three areas: Light side [Natural] : Grey area [Past user/Totally clean now] : Dark side [Gear User]

Croatch falls into the Grey Area weather he likes it or not.

Croatch · « **Reply #7 on:** April 18, 2006, 11:05:54 PM »

I disagree. If none of your current gains come from drug use, you are natural. Plain and simple. Does it mean you've been natural your whole life, no. Just like if someone made all there gains on gear, then stopped for a few month, I would consider them a juicer. Until, they lost ALL their gains, then gained it all back clean. To me, that's what natural means.

Bodies · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2006, 02:27:40 AM »

Quote from: Croatch on April 18, 2006, 11:05:54 PM

I disagree. If none of your current gains come from drug use, you are natural. Plain and simple. Does it mean you've been natural your whole life, no. Just like if someone made all there gains on gear, then stopped for a few month, I would consider them a juicer. Until, they lost ALL their gains, then gained it all back clean. To me, that's what natural means.

Once your cherry's been popped there's no getting it back Croatch. The "muscle memory" of your previous cycle(s) contributed to your present physique whether you want to admit it or not. Your body remembers all drugs on a genetic level
permanently.

jonno gb · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2006, 02:28:57 AM »

I would say that 'natural' means lifetime natural and would consider previous users 'drug free'.It's like losing your virginity-you can't go back.However,it's not really relevant as long as you adhere to the guidelines of the organisation that you compete in eg in the UK we have the NPA which stipulates 'lifetime natural' and the BNBF which is 7 years drug free(although many competitors are lifetime natural).

Bottom line is-WHO CARES-lifetime natural,drug free,assisted whatever-we are all bodybuilders who have made our choices.There's no right or wrong.

Mars · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2006, 02:44:13 AM »

Quote from: Croatch on April 18, 2006, 11:05:54 PM

I disagree. If none of your current gains come from drug use, you are natural. Plain and simple. Does it mean you've been natural your whole life, no. Just like if someone made all there gains on gear, then stopped for a few month, I would consider them a juicer. Until, they lost ALL their gains, then gained it all back clean. To me, that's what natural means.

I agree.

dontknowit · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2006, 04:45:12 AM »

Define "couple of cycles"
Off course not.

The definition you want to use is like one from a alcohol rehab,
I haven't used for a so many months, I'm clean and so I'm natural.

If you tried it once, and it was shit (almost unbelievable, it's in the mix) than you can keep calling yourself clean.

natural al · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2006, 04:49:40 AM »

muscle memory is one thing but you're not going to be able to train as heavy or recover as quickly so you might not be able to reach that level again..or at least not for awhile. I'm a life time natural guy, I had problems with my liver when I was younger so doing any roids is out of the question. I've got no problem with a guy saying he was natural if he's been clean for..I don't know...5 years or so, maybe 7. What I do have a problem with is guys like that team the game clown who sends "his guys" into natural competitions juiced to the gills because he knows how to beat the test. I'm telling you, I'm a pretty easy going guy but if I ever competed againts these guys and I knew what was going on somebody would be getting a beat down.

Petrucci · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2006, 05:00:00 AM »

Sorry but for me you can abuse of food, suplements, vitamins and any other thing like that, but if you take steroids once so you cant call yourself natural anymore, its just how i see it (doesnt matter if you hadnt any gains with it)
You can say you are not a user, but not that you are natural....
I have nothing agains steroids (im even planning to take it) but its just a thing of being honest with yourself and with others...

Croatch · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2006, 06:45:55 AM »

Quote

Once your cherry's been popped there's no getting it back Croatch. The "muscle memory" of your previous cycle(s) contributed to your present physique whether you want to admit it or not. Your body remembers all drugs on a genetic level
permanently.

So now you're telling me, if I fuck a girl who has only been nailed once 12 years ago by some guy with a small dick...now when I fuck her today she's going to be loose like a whore because of muscle memory?

240 is Back · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2006, 07:10:14 AM »

Quote from: Croatch on April 19, 2006, 06:45:55 AM

So now you're telling me, if I f**k a girl who has only been nailed once 12 years ago by some guy with a small dick...now when I f**k her today she's going to be loose like a whore because of muscle memory?

She won't be loose. But she can't be classified as a virgin either.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2006, 08:22:45 AM »

I've been "natural" for 4 months right now, it REALLY sucks.

Dingleberry · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2006, 08:43:34 AM »

I like the guys who claim they're natural because they never did the "illegal" version of steroids. They take every pro-hormone (m1t, superdrol, etc) on the market and then talk shit about guys that "juice".

Croatch · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2006, 09:41:01 AM »

Quote

I've been "natural" for 4 months right now, it REALLY sucks.

Welcome to the real world. I would love to see what a person's gains were, before they took any sauce. I'd bet the majority didn't accomplish squat before hitting gear. Must be awesome.

Quote

I like the guys who claim they're natural because they never did the "illegal" version of steroids. They take every pro-hormone (m1t, superdrol, etc) on the market and then talk shit about guys that "juice".

Agreed. Any test booster is borderline, pretty much what gear does.

Quote

She won't be loose. But she can't be classified as a virgin either.

What if I plug her ass instead?

HERACLES · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2006, 12:00:38 PM »

Quote from: Captain Equipoise on April 19, 2006, 08:22:45 AM

I've been "natural" for 4 months right now, it REALLY sucks.

LMAO!

HERACLES · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2006, 12:02:07 PM »

Quote from: Dingleberry on April 19, 2006, 08:43:34 AM

I like the guys who claim they're natural because they never did the "illegal" version of steroids. They take every pro-hormone (m1t, superdrol, etc) on the market and then talk shit about guys that "juice".

Yeah those are some homos. But you must admit, gear works better than those prohormones. I guess those prohormone folks are in between a tru natural and a gear user.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2006, 05:57:01 PM »

Quote from: Croatch on April 19, 2006, 09:41:01 AM

Welcome to the real world. I would love to see what a person's gains were, before they took any sauce. I'd bet the majority didn't accomplish squat before hitting gear.

Actually Croatch, my natural gains were pretty damn good, gear helped me take things to the next level, I realized long ago that it's almost impossible to look the way I want to look naturally. Sure it can be somewhat accomplished, but to get that kind of lean muscle would take a good 20+ years of non stop training, I'm 26 right now, I don't really want to wait till I'm 45 to enjoy that kind of physique.

MisterMagoo · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2006, 06:11:30 PM »

Quote from: Croatch on April 18, 2006, 11:05:54 PM

I disagree. If none of your current gains come from drug use, you are natural. Plain and simple. Does it mean you've been natural your whole life, no. Just like if someone made all there gains on gear, then stopped for a few month, I would consider them a juicer. Until, they lost ALL their gains, then gained it all back clean. To me, that's what natural means.

you forget that if you lose all your gains, it's a hell of a lot easier to get them back again. muscle memory, even from juiced gains, will make it pretty easy to get them back. unless you're talking about npc-level size from drug usage, its not going to be muscle that you can't regain after losing pretty quickly.

think about what happens when you diet and your strength goes down. it might take you two or three years to get to using 225 on the incline bench. then you diet and it drops to 185. once you start putting weight on again you're back up to 225 a hell of a lot faster than it took to get there from 185 the first time.

if you do a cycle, blow up to 250, then let it all shrink you back down to 200 pounds, you'll be able to get up to 250 again a lot faster than if you never did that cycle. the only exception is when you use the drugs to get past your natural limit, and that only means when you re-gain the muscle you'll just get to your natural limit a hell of a lot faster than if you never used.

natural means you have never used steroids to aid your gains. because no matter how long you've been off, where you are is a result of the usage. you might be 10 years plus clean, but you ain't natural.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2006, 08:35:34 PM »

A lot of it has to do with your goals and the kind of cycles you're doing.. there are a lot of people that start working out, 2-3 months after they started working out they start juicing hard, stay on for a year straight.. put on 60-70lbs. of muscle, then stop juicing, stop working out and revert to what they were before they started working out. Dedicated trainers, like myself use steroids more as icing on the cake, I put my hours in the gym and build up a great natural foundation, I've been off for 4 months and I'm still a very hard and lean 230, on gear I usually stay around 245-250 which is not that significant of an increase. Although I don't think steroids affect your natural gains very much when you've been off for over a year or so, and that includes muscle memory. I think at that point it's all natural.

ignorance · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2006, 12:00:26 AM »

Quote from: MisterMagoo on April 19, 2006, 06:11:30 PM

you forget that if you lose all your gains, it's a hell of a lot easier to get them back again. muscle memory, even from juiced gains, will make it pretty easy to get them back. unless you're talking about npc-level size from drug usage, its not going to be muscle that you can't regain after losing pretty quickly.

think about what happens when you diet and your strength goes down. it might take you two or three years to get to using 225 on the incline bench. then you diet and it drops to 185. once you start putting weight on again you're back up to 225 a hell of a lot faster than it took to get there from 185 the first time.

if you do a cycle, blow up to 250, then let it all shrink you back down to 200 pounds, you'll be able to get up to 250 again a lot faster than if you never did that cycle. the only exception is when you use the drugs to get past your natural limit, and that only means when you re-gain the muscle you'll just get to your natural limit a hell of a lot faster than if you never used.

natural means you have never used steroids to aid your gains. because no matter how long you've been off, where you are is a result of the usage. you might be 10 years plus clean, but you ain't natural.

^ I Concur. Croatch give it up, You did steriods, didn't like them or drop them however you want to put it, and now your working on your body without using steriods. Fine, But your not Natural! you and others who are in the same boat can cry and bitch about how clean they have been for how many years, but your not natural, your clean. There is a different. Once you come to terms with this, you'll thank this thread for it.

Author Topic: Natural or not? (Read 11954 times)

Bast175