Author Topic: Kyle Rittenhouse - Hero - Self Defense or Murder? Discuss (Read 35784 times)

Royalty · « **Reply #177 on:** August 29, 2020, 07:43:08 PM »

Antifa was simply overpowered on August 25th. Their goal was to burn down the city. Kyle shattered their dreams.

Kyle single handedly saved that city. The governor there was afraid to to the right thing.

Royalty · « **Reply #178 on:** August 29, 2020, 07:48:12 PM »

Quote from: pellius on August 29, 2020, 04:50:43 PM

Trump told people to go out with guns and defend the city. Didn't he offer to provide Federal protection to any city that wanted it? Who were the rioters and looters listening too and told to go out and destroy other people's property?

What would you do if you had a business there?

Yes Trump offered help in advance, the governor refused that help.

The governor will probably lose the next election over that glaring mistake.

tommywishbone · « **Reply #179 on:** August 29, 2020, 07:59:02 PM »

Quote from: honest on August 28, 2020, 07:48:08 PM

Enough is enough the kids a true patriot sick of seeing his country burn. The Left never accepted the democratic election of trump and have used every crisis and situation they can to undermine him and the country. Wait till after Trumps re elected, and the national guard rolls into your neighbourhood. The left has hijacked democracy and the freedoms it brings. Justice, law and order will be restored.

Word.

Walter Sobchak · « **Reply #180 on:** August 29, 2020, 08:15:30 PM »

BB · « **Reply #181 on:** August 29, 2020, 08:48:57 PM »

Video of Kyle fighting in a parking lot being circulated around quite a bit on Twitter in an effort to show him as violent. Original source of video is this guy -

https://twitter.com/Princereese_28 .

From what I've been able to suss out, the girl with him in the video is probably his sister. Just posting it here, because we'll be hearing a lot about it, and I want to remember the actual source.

Kwon · « **Reply #182 on:** August 29, 2020, 10:50:33 PM »

King Kyle singlehandedly saved that City from burning and vandalizing.

Kwon · « **Reply #183 on:** August 30, 2020, 01:22:26 AM »

Humble Narcissist · « **Reply #184 on:** August 30, 2020, 09:04:11 AM »

Too bad we don't have more resistors to Antifa and BLM in every city.

Megalodon · « **Reply #185 on:** August 30, 2020, 09:49:53 AM »

Quote from: Humble Narcissist on August 30, 2020, 09:04:11 AM

Too bad we don't have more resistors to Antifa and BLM in every city.

There were in Portland last night and one was shot and killed. I'm sure the media is giving it 24/7 coverage.

At the top but also a lot more posts scrolling down to around 13 and 16 hours ago:

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo

Agnostic007 · « **Reply #186 on:** August 30, 2020, 09:55:27 PM »

Quote from: oldgolds on August 29, 2020, 06:30:25 AM

Simply walking around with a firearm is not "creating a situation in which you have to use deadly force" People were not forced to attack him...

I was referring to the first shooting. I'm not clear on the circumstances of that initial shooting. If it was for example that he shot someone for breaking out a car window, that would be murder and people trying to stop him from leaving while stupid, would not necessarily warrant his using a self defense defense.

Agnostic007 · « **Reply #187 on:** August 30, 2020, 09:59:02 PM »

Quote from: Dieter on August 28, 2020, 10:43:01 PM

⁉️ Kyle Rittenhouse - Let's talk facts in the Kenosha Wisconsin shooting from a Lawyer's standpoint

A lot of people are saying that Kyle Rittenhouse went to Kenosha looking for trouble, he was a vigilante, he was trying to play cop... However, some are saying he was just there to help protect property and protesters so let’s hear why he said he was there. (shown in video)

A lot of people feel some type of way about Kyle bringing an AR-15 with him to a protest/riot and I get it, why bring a rifle to a peaceful protest? Well sometimes protest turn into riots and an AR-15 is one of the most effective self-defense tools in the world. That’s why it’s the most popular rifle in the country.

I know seeing someone carrying an AR makes some people uncomfortable, but I also can’t blame someone for wanting the best means of protection when they’re going into what could turn out to be a dangerous and volatile situation. Also, let’s be clear, there were a lot of protestors and rioters with guns at this protest/riot.

However, there is the issue of legality. Kyle is 17 and In Wisconsin, any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

So, on the surface, Kyle was carrying his rifle illegally, but Wisconsin law has an exception that says that law only applies if the person has a short-barreled rifle or shotgun or the person does not have a certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval.

Kyle may or may not have this, I don’t know and this exception may only apply in cases of hunting, it’s not very clear, but my gut tells me, Wisconsin wasn’t trying to carve out an exception that let minors open carry during a protest/riot and the exception was more about hunting.

Then there are people saying Kyle shouldn’t have been there because there was an 8pm curfew and they’d be right, but that also means the protestors and rioters shouldn’t have been there either.

I’m not really a fan of any 17-year-old being at a protest/riot. I know 40-year-olds who don’t have the mental maturity to deal with the dynamic of a riot much less an impressionable 17-year-old, but if we send 18-year-olds to fight people in other countries, so then can I really say anything to a 17-year-old who wants to help protect business and people in his country.

There are a lot of people making a big deal about the fact that Kyle drove in from Antioch Illinois.

The drive from Antioch to Kenosha is 30 min. That’s shorter than a lot of people’s daily commute. Anthony Huber the kid with the skateboard who was shot and killed, lived in Silver Lake, that’s a 30 min drive to Kenosha. Gaige Grosskreutz, lived in West Allis and that’s a 49 min drive to Kenosha. So, it’s safe to say they all should have probably stayed home that day, but none of them did so here we are.

In Wisconsin, Deadly force can only be used if a person reasonably believes that such force is required to avoid death or great bodily harm.

There is no duty to retreat unless you were the initial aggressor. If you are the initial aggressor, you can only use deadly force if you reasonably believe all means to escape great bodily injury or death has been exhausted.

I describe the events with video in great detail from a lawyer’s point of view in this video.

Yes, the people attacking Kyle think he just murdered someone, but they are attacking him. They are not defending themselves from him to prevent death or great bodily injury, so under the letter of the law, they are the aggressor at that moment. Because they have a disparity of force (ie way more people than him) and weapons or objects being used as weapons, Kyle is legally justified to use deadly force to stop them.

So as a lawyer, unless some new info comes out that shows Kyle was the initial aggressor and he had a way to retreat, legally I don’t think he will be charged with murder.

Yes, Kyle probably broke the law in that he was a minor open carrying a firearm. However, Kyle breaking that law does not mean he forfeits his right to self-defense if it is justified.

This is similar to a situation in which I’m a felon and I have a gun that I use to protect myself during a home invasion.

I’m still going to jail, but not for murder. It’ll be for me having a gun as a felon because my use of deadly force with that gun even though it was illegal for me to have, was justified.

In this case from the looks of the information up to this point, legally, he was justified.

Because of this, I think Kyle is going to plead to the lesser charge of open carrying a firearm as a minor, but I don’t see him getting convicted of murder

"Yes, the people attacking Kyle think he just murdered someone, but they are attacking him. They are not defending themselves from him to prevent death or great bodily injury, so under the letter of the law, they are the aggressor at that moment. Because they have a disparity of force (ie way more people than him) and weapons or objects being used as weapons, Kyle is legally justified to use deadly force to stop them. "

I'm a little at a loss on this lawyers take here. His logic is, that if there is a homicide in progress, with an active shooter, his opinion is that those in the area can only run and hide, and if they tried to overpower the shooter he would then be in his legal right to use deadly force. I'm curious what type of law this lawyer practices.

Megalodon · « **Reply #188 on:** August 30, 2020, 10:56:58 PM »

Given that a gun is legally possessed and an individual is in an open carry state, it would be interesting to know the best way to react, from both a legal and life preservation perspective, when an individual, open carrying a firearm, encounters an angry person that is chasing them and appears intent on taking their firearm away from them and/or causing bodily harm.

Like encountering a Joseph Rosenbaum, for example.

1. Do you let him have it and hope he doesn't shoot you?

2. Do you try to prevent your weapon from being taken in a tug-of-war while having no intent to ever fire your weapon but hoping your firearm doesn't accidentally discharge, or the other individual doesn't take it from you?

3. Or do you shoot him, given that you are experiencing life in real time and are not 'Monday morning quarterbacking' recorded videos, from different angles and speeds, and still not fully understanding what is happening?

Explorerspl · « **Reply #189 on:** August 31, 2020, 06:18:48 AM »

Quote from: Matt on August 28, 2020, 05:48:45 PM

These riots have gone on too long without anyone defending themselves. If it shocks you to see people go to extreme measures, you haven't seen shit yet.

As for these BLM protesters feeling the same way - these morons are protesting one legally justified shooting of a Black criminal after another. So it doesn't matter if they too feel fed up. They are idiots, who have no grasp of the law, and no grasp of when police have the right to use legal force.

The people responding to these protesters are understandably restless. Their feelings are justified. There just comes a time when you say enough is enough.

Again, if any of the current measures shock you, I'm here to remind you once again: you haven't seen shit yet.

No one said they were shocked. If you read my post I'm ready to stand my ground if I end up in a similar situation.

Unlike your troop I actually have a brain and understand there will be legal consequences for doing so even though I have the right to defend myself. I notice you type "feel" and "feelings" a lot, what do trumptards tell libtards? "Facts don't care about your feelings"?

You obviously didn't read shit,not surprised you just come on getbig to posts novels about yourself to get off to.

Explorerspl · « **Reply #190 on:** August 31, 2020, 06:23:09 AM »

Quote from: epic is back on August 28, 2020, 01:45:55 PM

you lost credibility at #2 you have no clue about who can operate and posses a firearm. zero clue no age to use a fire arm. none!!

Wis. Stat. § 948.60(2)(a)
Wis. Stat. §§ 29.304 and 29.593

Tapeworm · « **Reply #191 on:** August 31, 2020, 08:14:13 AM »

Should have been at home in bed but all the shoots were clean imo. The last 2 are squeaky clean.

Kickass work from the guy on arfcom, BB. Thanks for linking.

oldgolds · « **Reply #192 on:** August 31, 2020, 09:05:45 AM »

Quote from: Agnostic007 on August 30, 2020, 09:59:02 PM

"Yes, the people attacking Kyle think he just murdered someone, but they are attacking him. They are not defending themselves from him to prevent death or great bodily injury, so under the letter of the law, they are the aggressor at that moment. Because they have a disparity of force (ie way more people than him) and weapons or objects being used as weapons, Kyle is legally justified to use deadly force to stop them. "

I'm a little at a loss on this lawyers take here. His logic is, that if there is a homicide in progress, with an active shooter, his opinion is that those in the area can only run and hide, and if they tried to overpower the shooter he would then be in his legal right to use deadly force. I'm curious what type of law this lawyer practices.

They were trying to do more than simply "overpower him"...They were trying to seriously injure him...

Dave D · « **Reply #193 on:** August 31, 2020, 09:20:22 AM »

Quote from: BB on August 29, 2020, 08:48:57 PM

Video of Kyle fighting in a parking lot being circulated around quite a bit on Twitter in an effort to show him as violent. Original source of video is this guy -

https://twitter.com/Princereese_28 .

From what I've been able to suss out, the girl with him in the video is probably his sister. Just posting it here, because we'll be hearing a lot about it, and I want to remember the actual source.

This video will be used against him but so will the other facts of the situation. The “hero’s” that died and were wounded also have violent histories and they showed up with intent to inflict harm.

The felon without a bicep but illegally carrying a gun in public, a gun he brandished, should have been arrested as well. Why is this not being made an issue?

Megalodon · « **Reply #194 on:** August 31, 2020, 10:42:03 AM »

Quote from: Dave D on August 31, 2020, 09:20:22 AM

This video will be used against him but so will the other facts of the situation. The “hero’s” that died and were wounded also have violent histories and they showed up with intent to inflict harm.

The felon without a bicep but illegally carrying a gun in public, a gun he brandished, should have been arrested as well. Why is this not being made an issue?

Biden thought it would be a good idea to sniff him immediately after he was relegated to unilateral workouts.

Kwon · « **Reply #195 on:** August 31, 2020, 12:46:59 PM »

Quote from: Megalodon on August 31, 2020, 10:42:03 AM

Biden thought it would be a good idea to sniff him immediately after he was relegated to unilateral workouts.

pellius · « **Reply #196 on:** August 31, 2020, 07:13:30 PM »

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but it is new to me as I just heard it right now.

Kyle and his group was called by one of the business owners who had his place sacked and looted and wanted some help and protection. They were friends. To me it's just like if I called some friends or family to help protect life and property as I was called on by a friend during the LA riots. Kyle and his group did not just take it upon themselves to go there looking for trouble.

Kyle brought with him a First Aid kit, as an employed life guard he had some life saving training and was prepared to use it.

He did not cross state lines with a rifle. It was provided to him when he got there.

My main argument against Kyle was that he was foolish to take it upon himself going into a war zone even if it was for good reasons. This no longer applies when he and his group was called on by a friend in distress.

Tapeworm · « **Reply #197 on:** August 31, 2020, 10:44:25 PM »

Leaving aside all legal questions, Rittenhouse is an absolute ice man. I didn't hear one swear word. No expressions of panic or distress. That kid was all business. Doubt I would have been as cool. Impressive.

Megalodon · « **Reply #198 on:** August 31, 2020, 11:01:17 PM »

On a live streamed video in Kenosha before the shootings happened, Kyle was being interviewed and said that 'antifa' was using "chemical bombs", some kind of homemade irritant that was not pepper spray/mace.

I read from another source today in another state that 'antifa' there were using "chlorine bombs", whatever exactly that is in that particular case.

"A chlorine bomb is a small explosive device which uses the pressure of chemically produced chlorine gas or other chlorine-containing gases such as hydrogen chloride to produce an explosion. It is made with an airtight container part-filled with different types of chlorine tablet and other reagents."

In other news:

visualizeperfection · « **Reply #199 on:** August 31, 2020, 11:12:10 PM »

Quote from: Tapeworm on August 31, 2020, 10:44:25 PM

Leaving aside all legal questions, Rittenhouse is an absolute ice man. I didn't hear one swear word. No expressions of panic or distress. That kid was all business. Doubt I would have been as cool. Impressive.

I agree. Regardless of political view or viewpoint on the incident, this young man is a stud. 300 yard sprint and still remained calm enough to dump a few bros. He would have been the type to lie about his age in ww2.