Author Topic: Wow!! Imagine this mega fight!! (Read 1419 times)

I wouldn't take for granted a massive strong wrestler's ability to take anyone to the ground - aside from other grapplers.

The question in my mind is whether or not Tyson had any idea of takedown defense at the time that incident happened. It's not like anyone knew about MMA when that happened. Mike would have good reason to have no clue what a takedown or ground game even was. If Mike throws an upper cut during the takedown, that would be all she wrote.

But if any fight with a boxer goes to the ground, it's a completely different fight.

No, I'm not saying Cormier would win - or even be able to take Mike down. I'm not sure what level of wrestling Chris made it to. If he had Andy Haman's wrestling background, it would be another story.

Again, that incident happened in pre-MMA days. Any top boxer would have no reason to think about anything but boxing. And I think some wrestlers would have beaten Tyson in a hypothetical 1990 cage.

I think a prime Brock Lesnar would beat a prime Mike Tyson in a cage. I don't say that lightly. But if I had to pick...I'd pick Brock.

Taffin · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2021, 10:57:53 AM »

Quote from: Humble Narcissist on March 01, 2021, 01:37:31 PM

Coleman wouldn't be able to climb the steps to enter the ring.

They'd build a ramp for his wheelchair

affeman · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2021, 11:00:31 AM »

This guy would knock out both of em' simultaneously

hench · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2021, 11:01:04 AM »

:didnt tyson slap cormier round the back of the head in a nightclub only for chris to turn round ready to fight until he saw it was tyson..?

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2021, 11:03:33 AM »

Quote from: hench on March 02, 2021, 11:01:04 AM

:didnt tyson slap cormier round the back of the head in a nightclub only for chris to turn round ready to fight until he saw it was tyson..?

Yep. And apparently, Tyson was with his entourage. Tyson may have then made a compliment to the effect of "I knew my boy could take it."

Cormier was a little taller, and way bigger. The slap itself was actually a compliment, I would say.

Darren Avey · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2021, 11:59:50 AM »

Quote from: Matt on March 02, 2021, 11:03:33 AM

Yep. And apparently, Tyson was with his entourage. Tyson may have then made a compliment to the effect of "I knew my boy could take it."

Cormier was a little taller, and way bigger. The slap itself was actually a compliment, I would say.

Cormier had bigger biceps and bench pressed more. He wins a fight

Matt · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2021, 12:22:58 PM »

Quote from: Darren Avey on March 02, 2021, 11:59:50 AM

Cormier had bigger biceps and bench pressed more. He wins a fight

Tyson wins a boxing match against Cormier, or a street fight against Cormier, or an MMA fight against Cormier.

Cormier was said to have some wrestling background, so presumably Cormier would have beaten Tyson in a wrestling match when that incident with Tyson happened. It would really depend on what level Cormier's wrestling was at. If Cormier was the college state wrestling champion of California, I would say that unquestionably, he would have been able to take Tyson to the ground in 1993 or whenever that incident happened, when Tyson would have had no idea about ground defense because MMA wasn't a thing back then.

Tyson probably picked up some ground fighting in his street fighting days. Again, this depends on how good Cormier's wrestling was. If Cormier wrestled for a year in high school, I wouldn't think he would have much of an arsenal to do anything with Tyson.

Andy Haman's wrestling background is confirmed. He was an elite wrestler. As for Cormier...I don't know.

Cormier wins in a bodybuilding contest.

Humble Narcissist · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2021, 12:27:29 PM »

Quote from: Matt on March 02, 2021, 10:56:20 AM

I wouldn't take for granted a massive strong wrestler's ability to take anyone to the ground - aside from other grapplers.

The question in my mind is whether or not Tyson had any idea of takedown defense at the time that incident happened. It's not like anyone knew about MMA when that happened. Mike would have good reason to have no clue what a takedown or ground game even was. If Mike throws an upper cut during the takedown, that would be all she wrote.

But if any fight with a boxer goes to the ground, it's a completely different fight.

No, I'm not saying Cormier would win - or even be able to take Mike down. I'm not sure what level of wrestling Chris made it to. If he had Andy Haman's wrestling background, it would be another story.

Again, that incident happened in pre-MMA days. Any top boxer would have no reason to think about anything but boxing. And I think some wrestlers would have beaten Tyson in a hypothetical 1990 cage.

I think a prime Brock Lesnar would beat a prime Mike Tyson in a cage. I don't say that lightly. But if I had to pick...I'd pick Brock.

No. Brock Lesnar was a terrible MMA fighter. Did you ever see his punches after he got someone on the ground? He was 2-1 and got the heavyweight title fight in the UFC.

It was all marketing.

Matt · « **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2021, 12:30:19 PM »

Quote from: Humble Narcissist on March 02, 2021, 12:27:29 PM

No. Brock Lesnar was a terrible MMA fighter. Did you ever see his punches after he got someone on the ground? He was 2-1 and got the heavyweight title fight in the UFC. It was all marketing.

Brock Lesnar held the UFC heavyweight title for, IIRC, 22 months, which was a record at the time.

How can you say Lesnar was a terrible MMA fighter? If by terrible, you meant "not the best", I agree. But Lesnar was not a terrible MMA fighter. He was the UFC heavyweight champion.

Matt · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2021, 12:36:40 PM »

Quote from: Humble Narcissist on March 02, 2021, 12:27:29 PM

No. Brock Lesnar was a terrible MMA fighter. Did you ever see his punches after he got someone on the ground? He was 2-1 and got the heavyweight title fight in the UFC. It was all marketing.

Brock's NCAA record in college wrestling was 106-5, and he competed in the heaviest weight class.

That achievement is paralleled by very few wrestlers, and can't be explained by anything aside Lesnar being very good at wrestling.

I agree that that there was hype surrounding him. He had flaws as a fighter, and he wasn't the best UFC heavyweight champion ever...but Lesnar was very good, IMO.

Do you think the UFC fed him easy fighters for hype purposes? Like Conor's fight with veteran Cowboy?

Humble Narcissist · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2021, 12:40:16 PM »

Quote from: Matt on March 02, 2021, 12:30:19 PM

Brock Lesnar held the UFC heavyweight title for, IIRC, 22 months, which was a record at the time.

How can you say Lesnar was a terrible MMA fighter? If by terrible, you meant "not the best", I agree. But Lesnar was not a terrible MMA fighter. He was the UFC heavyweight champion.

Like I said, he got the title fight at 2-1. Watch his fights, they were terrible. As soon as he fought someone good he got destroyed. The heavyweight division was terrible and his name helped boost it's popularity.

He was a great amateur wrestler. He was a great professional wrestler. Amateur wrestling, professional wrestling and MMA are not the same animals.

Matt · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2021, 12:45:00 PM »

Quote from: Humble Narcissist on March 02, 2021, 12:40:16 PM

Like I said, he got the title fight at 2-1. Watch his fights, they were terrible. As soon as he fought someone good he got destroyed. The heavyweight division was terrible and his name helped boost it's popularity.

He was a great amateur wrestler. He was a great professional wrestler. Amateur wrestling, professional wrestling and MMA are not the same animals.

Ok, I think I understand you now.

You're saying the caliber of fighters he fought were not that great. I don't think the UFC did that on purpose...it was just lucky timing for Brock.

That being said, he had some noteworthy wins to me - Frank Mir and especially Shane Carwin come to mind.

I also think his diverticulitis played a role in his losses against Cain Velasquez and Alistair Overeem.

Darren Avey · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2021, 02:33:55 PM »

I still don't believe Brock benched 1000lbs

Matt · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2021, 02:38:09 PM »

Quote from: Darren Avey on March 02, 2021, 02:33:55 PM

I still don't believe Brock benched 1000lbs

The claim I heard for Brock was that he benched 475-lb...but that's with an 84" reach. Pretty impressive, IMO.

BB · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2021, 02:39:28 PM »

There was only one bodybuilder that could beat Tyson, and it was this guy here -

.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120512104628if_/http://derekanthony.com/Bestfreepicturesdec2006/images/march2004015.jpg.

And those days are sadly over.

Darren Avey · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2021, 02:50:01 PM »

Quote from: Darren Avey on March 02, 2021, 02:33:55 PM

I still don't believe Brock squatted 1000lbs

Darren Avey · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2021, 02:51:33 PM »

Quote from: Matt on March 02, 2021, 02:38:09 PM

The claim I heard for Brock was that he benched 475-lb...but that's with an 84" reach. Pretty impressive, IMO.

Sorry I meant squatted

Matt · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2021, 03:11:40 PM »

Quote from: Darren Avey on March 02, 2021, 02:51:33 PM

Sorry I meant squatted

Ah. I think I may have heard that claim too, lol. Yeah, no. If he squatted 500x10, that would be impressive. I could see him maybe going to parallel with 650. But that would be sheer speculation on my part. I don't doubt he had the potential to be very strong...but I don't see how he would have time to commit to a proper strength program, given how committed he was to wrestling.

Strong dude for sure though. Possibly the strongest UFC fighter ever.