Ted Nugent former covid-19 denier ,gets Covid

[WeightPSHR]

Obviously you as an individual will likely be just fine .
However, if we want to eradicate the virus from the global scene we need everyone to take the vaccine.

This is how we wiped out horrible, pandemic disease like polio and small pox.

The thing you're missing is those viruses were far more lethal.

[Thin Lizzy]

If you don’t  have a financial and economic background, you never will really know what’s going on here. I hear some of your so-called journalists just can’t seem to understand why none of this makes sense. Even the guy who smartened me up to the AIDS scam back in the 80s doesn’t really get it because he’s more of a nutrition guy

If you look at it from the angle of a currency devaluation scheme using a health scare as a pretext,  and restrictions as a way of preventing inflation, it all makes perfect sense.

[Tapeworm]

Give me a break and stop being so extreme.
Nobody is going to force you to get a vaccine.

You can't travel on a plane without going thru security . You have to wear a "hard hat" to go on a construction site.

LOL, nobody is going to hold you down and force helmet on your head.
BUT, if you want to play in a football game, you've got to wear one.

If you want to play in the game, you have to follow the rules or the refs call a foul on ya. Simple.

Rules are things upon which all participants agree. Otherwise we're playing two different games, right? Hey what if someone invented a game where the rules kept changing and the players just had to go along. Would that be a popular sport?

Continuing to parrot "Thems the rules" doesn't make everything ok. You seem to think that classifying every coercive tactic short of violence as "The New Rules" makes them automatically correct and beyond question.

I can't speak for others but I'm not a knee-jerk compliance kind of guy. When someone tells me he's got a new rule for me, I like to examine that before I give my consent.

[Howard]

If you don’t  have a financial and economic background, you never will really know what’s going on here. I hear some of your so-called journalists just can’t seem to understand why none of this makes sense. Even the guy who smartened me up to the AIDS scam back in the 80s doesn’t really get it because he’s more of a nutrition guy

If you look at it from the angle of a currency devaluation scheme using a health scare as a pretext,  and restrictions as a way of preventing inflation, it all makes perfect sense.

I'm not going to resort to any silly insults as it's pointless and not my style.
However, this  idea that Covid was about manipulation of the economy , seems to be a stretch.

You're a smart guy, but some of your ideas seem more "tin foil hat" conspiracy than credible explanations.
It's my experience, that most of life's events are related to mundane things.
As Sigmond Freud once said ; " Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar."

[Howard]

Rules are things upon which all participants agree. Otherwise we're playing two different games, right? Hey what if someone invented a game where the rules kept changing and the players just had to go along. Would that be a popular sport?

Continuing to parrot "Thems the rules" doesn't make everything ok. You seem to think that classifying every coercive tactic short of violence as "The New Rules" makes them automatically correct and beyond question.

I can't speak for others but I'm not a knee-jerk compliance kind of guy. When someone tells me he's got a new rule for me, I like to examine that before I give my consent.

Good post and thoughtful reply

I have a strong, inner streak of independent  thinking and enjoy hearing from those who think "outside the box."
BUT, one needs to be practical and pick your battles.

For example, I don't like every law or regulation out there. But , unless it's a real problem for me, it's easier to just go along.

Think about it...is this covid vaccine issue , the proverbial hill you want to die on?

It's my impression a lot of this covid related and vaccine stuff is more about proudly wearing your team colors.
For example,  lost a funny bet on the 2016 election with female PT who works at my gym.
I had to workout wearing a Trump t-shirt, she provided . I also  wore a MAGA hat  and we had some good fun teasing me.

I don't know you and if you really think the covid vaccine is a serious health risk , that's one thing.
BUT, if you just being stubborn and think doing so, is giving in to the other side, it's silly.

Thanks again for the thoughtful interaction. good luck with whatever you decide and stay healthy.

[Primemuscle]

Coercing people into any medical intervention, wahtsoever, without proper informed consent is a crime against humanity, and people were hanged for this crime in the Nuremburg Trials following the defeat of Nazi Germany. Coercion includes not just legal force, but any social or economic manipulation applied to the individual as well. It is worth considering that vaccines are the only products manufactured in the U.S. where the manufacturers have complete immunity from liability. Not even other medical compounds (for example, Vioxx) have this immunity from liability. This means that if I take a vaccine now, and end up with any kind of autoimmune disorder a few years down the road, I have no legal recourse nor any possibility of compensation whatsoever. This reason alone is good enough reason to avoid any vaccinations, whatsoever.

No liability, no mandates.

I am 58 years old, and have a physique better than probably 97% of all of the young guys out there. I do not take any prescription meds whatsoever, and do not feel any "aches or pains" or any of the other crap that most people of my generation complain of. Perhaps I am lucky and won the genetic lottery. Or maybe, just maybe, I know what the f**k i'm doing with my own bio-engineering of my health and vitality. If what I am doing is working out for me, I  see no reason to change it.

The notion that a healthy person can benefit others by accepting medical risk has no basis in either science or morality.

Lots of folks are in great physical condition when they are in their 50's and beyond. Some people do win the "genetic lottery" as you put it. Some aren't so lucky. This has nothing to do with them taking prescription drugs. In some of these cases, prescription drugs are what helps them be as healthy as possible....perhaps even keeps them alive.

Vaccines prevent illness and that is a scientifically proven fact. The U.S. has been polio-free in the U.S. since 1979 thanks to a successful vaccination program. Polio vaccines along with some vaccines are required
in every state in the U.S. for a child to attend daycare, pre-school and k-12 school.

[Tapeworm]

Others have been arguing with you about the severity of covid but, if you have a look, I've been accepting the claims of your position, namely that the unvaxed harm the vaxed, and that covid is every bit as bad as you believe.

Then I've tried to make the case that none of that shifts ownership of an individual away from himself. No one else owns him more than he owns himself. Not people he infects. Not a government. Not if things were 1000x worse than they are.

Individual rights are foundational to Western civilization. In the rest of the world, and throughout history, people don't have them. Instead, they have The Rules. Even when you show me that the group us better served by eliminating a particular right, I won't accept it because a group of non-rights endowed individuals are ultimately far worse off. And ownership of one's own body is pretty much the ultimate civil right. Canceling it is the ultimate betrayal of the Western ethos.

So ya. That's important to me.

[Howard]

Others have been arguing with you about the severity of covid but, if you have a look, I've been accepting the claims of your position, namely that the unvaxed harm the vaxed, and that covid is every bit as bad as you believe.

Then I've tried to make the case that none of that shifts ownership of an individual away from himself. No one else owns him more than he owns himself. Not people he infects. Not a government. Not if things were 1000x worse than they are.

Individual rights are foundational to Western civilization. In the rest of the world, and throughout history, people don't have them. Instead, they have The Rules. Even when you show me that the group us better served by eliminating a particular right, I won't accept it because a group of non-rights endowed individuals are ultimately far worse off. And ownership of one's own body is pretty much the ultimate civil right. Canceling it is the ultimate betrayal of the Western ethos.

So ya. That's important to me.

Good post.

One of the major public health goals ,is the need to fully eradicate the covid virus from the global population.
The only practical way to do this that I know of , is to have every person , get the vaccine.

I'll use a goofy example to illustrate my point:

You may feel justified about farting in a crowded elevator .
It's YOUR asshole  after all, and it's your right to decide what gas blows out .

However, once your butt musk gets blasted out into the air, EVERYONE is forced to smell the horrid stench.

Your freedom to fart shouldn't force them to smell the stink.

Just sayin' 

[Dave D]

Again, the vast majorty of public health experts think Covid is a bigger health problem then you do.
You have a right NOT to be vaccinated, but you don't have the right to pose a health risk for others in public.

Then why are cigarettes legal? Second hand smoke is deadly.

How many people die needlessly of cancer?

[Howard]

Then why are cigarettes legal? Second hand smoke is deadly.

How many people die needlessly of cancer?

The policy rational would be you can see the smoke and it's restricted in no smoking areas. Which sounds like "BS".

Smoking ciggs , drinking booze and obese slobs cause major public  health problems.
In fact, most health Ins providers require an extra tobacco use fee $$.
Any health issue caused by smoking, drinking or drugs shouldn't be covered by private health Insurance

I've often said, if someone refuses to get a Covid vaccine , fine.
But, I don't think private Insurance should be cover  Covid treatments if they catch the virus.

[WeightPSHR]

The policy rational would be you can see the smoke and it's restricted in no smoking areas. Which sounds like "BS".

Smoking ciggs , drinking booze and obese slobs cause major public  health problems.
In fact, most health Ins providers require an extra tobacco use fee $$.
Any health issue caused by smoking, drinking or drugs shouldn't be covered by private health Insurance

I've often said, if someone refuses to get a Covid vaccine , fine.
But, I don't think private Insurance should be cover  Covid treatments if they catch the virus.

If Fauci and the rest of the government are so concerned about our health, then why not make cigarettes illegal? There is no safe way to smoke.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.Mar 23, 2020

Fast Facts | Fact Sheets | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC

[Primemuscle]

Then why are cigarettes legal? Second hand smoke is deadly.

How many people die needlessly of cancer?

Exposure to second hand smoke in many place has been greatly reduced because indoor smoking is banned except in one's own home.

As of September 30, 2020, 27 states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin), American Samoa, the District of Columbia, the Marshall Islands, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands have 100% smokefree indoor air laws for bars, restaurants, and worksites (private and government).

Many of the remaining states are limiting where people can smoke.

In Oregon, smoking is not allowed within 10 feet of any entrance, exit, window and/or air intake vent of any indoor workplace or public place.

Most of Europe has banned or severely cutback on indoor smoking with the exception of your home. That being said, it may not be as rigorously enforced as it is in the U.S.

The first time I visited Germany as an adult was in 1988 when my son got married. Believe it or not in the little Bavarian village where he still lives there were cigarette vending machines on street corners though out town. They've been gone for sometime now. Germany still have very liberal smoking laws.

Outdoor locations with the greatest number of smokers resulted in average exposure levels that are considered unhealthy for sensitive groups and peak exposure levels that are considered very hazardous for everyone. Secondhand smoke odor is detectable at 23 feet from the source and irritation levels began 13 feet from the source. Furthermore, anyone positioned downwind from an outdoor source of secondhand smoke will be exposed, even at significant distances from the source.

I don't smoke. Many bars in Oregon have outdoor smoking areas. I find that it is pretty easy to avoid breathing in the fumes/toxins from smokers by avoiding the areas where they are allowed to smoke.

When I was in my teens and beyond, people smoked anywhere they wanted. On the street, in restaurants, grocery stores, work places...everywhere. We've come a long way since then. Just today, I read that Biden is trying to get the sale of menthol and other flavored cigarettes and cigars outlawed. Like I said, I don't smoke but IMO this is taking the whole no smoking thing a step too far.

[WeightPSHR]

Exposure to second hand smoke in many place has been greatly reduced because indoor smoking is banned except in one's own home.

As of September 30, 2020, 27 states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin), American Samoa, the District of Columbia, the Marshall Islands, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands have 100% smokefree indoor air laws for bars, restaurants, and worksites (private and government).

Many of the remaining states are limiting where people can smoke.

In Oregon, smoking is not allowed within 10 feet of any entrance, exit, window and/or air intake vent of any indoor workplace or public place.

Most of Europe has banned or severely cutback on indoor smoking with the exception of your home. That being said, it may not be as rigorously enforced as it is in the U.S.

The first time I visited Germany as an adult was in 1988 when my son got married. Believe it or not in the little Bavarian village where he still lives there were cigarette vending machines on street corners though out town. They've been gone for sometime now. Germany still have very liberal smoking laws.

Outdoor locations with the greatest number of smokers resulted in average exposure levels that are considered unhealthy for sensitive groups and peak exposure levels that are considered very hazardous for everyone. Secondhand smoke odor is detectable at 23 feet from the source and irritation levels began 13 feet from the source. Furthermore, anyone positioned downwind from an outdoor source of secondhand smoke will be exposed, even at significant distances from the source.

I don't smoke. Many bars in Oregon have outdoor smoking areas. I find that it is pretty easy to avoid breathing in the fumes/toxins from smokers by avoiding the areas where they are allowed to smoke.

When I was in my teens and beyond, people smoked anywhere they wanted. On the street, in restaurants, grocery stores, work places...everywhere. We've come a long way since then. Just today, I read that Biden is trying to get the sale of menthol and other flavored cigarettes and cigars outlawed. Like I said, I don't smoke but IMO this is taking the whole no smoking thing a step too far.

Why do you think cigarettes are still legal? I know they bring in a lot of tax money, but shouldn't Americans health come first.

After all, they shut down an entire country for a year to try and prevent covid deaths. Meanwhile cigarettes kill as many people EVERY YEAR in the US as Covid did over the past year. Hmmmmm

Seems the US really cares about our health and all. Every single death from cigarettes is preventable. Let that sink in for a bit.

[Howard]

If Fauci and the rest of the government are so concerned about our health, then why not make cigarettes illegal? There is no safe way to smoke.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.Mar 23, 2020

Fast Facts | Fact Sheets | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC

Agree with that 100%.
Plenty of books, interviews and even movies have been made on the evil tobacco industry.
As Prime already posted, the cigg. industry has taken a huge hit in USA  revenue $$, since I've been a kid.
Tobacco is BIG money and the industry uses those deep products to lobby congress.


This may not be the answer you want  , but here goes:

The United States was able  outlaw booze aka "prohibition" ,when it passed the 18th amd. in Jan of 1919.
This was repealed by the passing of the 21st amd. in Dec 1933.

Prohibition spawned a new big money industry of illegal booze.
In fact, famous gangsters like Al Capone , was so wealthy from illegal booze sales, he ran Chicago in the 1920's.

Bathtub gin and moonshine with insecticide caused serious health problems , even blindness.
Gangsters were shooting up the streets and the public refused to stop drinking , PERIOD.

In the end , the law couldn't stop most people from drinking , so they decided to make booze legal (again) with some regulations.

Despite some Covid vaccine refusals, the vast majority of people WANT a vaccine to be safe.
If the same majority refused the vaccine, their is NOTHING practical the Gov could do to make people.

Make no mistake, thanks in part ot social media and countless news sources, you can insulate yourself from opposing views.
If all you hear and see agrees with YOUR view, it's natural for you think it's the majority opinion.
That's why we all need to get our heads out our collective asses and look around to know what's really going on.

[Thin Lizzy]

I suspect the endless mask mandates in Oregon are in place solely to keep Prime’s mouth covered.

[Howard]

I suspect the endless mask mandates in Oregon are in place solely to keep Prime’s mouth covered.

You'd think the LGBTQ lobby would be against masks and they inhibit pole smoking.

[Dave D]

Exposure to second hand smoke in many place has been greatly reduced because indoor smoking is banned except in one's own home.

As of September 30, 2020, 27 states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin), American Samoa, the District of Columbia, the Marshall Islands, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands have 100% smokefree indoor air laws for bars, restaurants, and worksites (private and government).

Many of the remaining states are limiting where people can smoke.

In Oregon, smoking is not allowed within 10 feet of any entrance, exit, window and/or air intake vent of any indoor workplace or public place.

Most of Europe has banned or severely cutback on indoor smoking with the exception of your home. That being said, it may not be as rigorously enforced as it is in the U.S.

The first time I visited Germany as an adult was in 1988 when my son got married. Believe it or not in the little Bavarian village where he still lives there were cigarette vending machines on street corners though out town. They've been gone for sometime now. Germany still have very liberal smoking laws.

Outdoor locations with the greatest number of smokers resulted in average exposure levels that are considered unhealthy for sensitive groups and peak exposure levels that are considered very hazardous for everyone. Secondhand smoke odor is detectable at 23 feet from the source and irritation levels began 13 feet from the source. Furthermore, anyone positioned downwind from an outdoor source of secondhand smoke will be exposed, even at significant distances from the source.

I don't smoke. Many bars in Oregon have outdoor smoking areas. I find that it is pretty easy to avoid breathing in the fumes/toxins from smokers by avoiding the areas where they are allowed to smoke.

When I was in my teens and beyond, people smoked anywhere they wanted. On the street, in restaurants, grocery stores, work places...everywhere. We've come a long way since then. Just today, I read that Biden is trying to get the sale of menthol and other flavored cigarettes and cigars outlawed. Like I said, I don't smoke but IMO this is taking the whole no smoking thing a step too far.

Greatly reduced?

We should eliminate this health hazard that has zero upside.

This conversation is about taking away the rights of the  selfish some when it’s the greater good of all society that matters.

Who does smoking benefit in any way?

[Dave D]

Obviously you as an individual will likely be just fine .
However, if we want to eradicate the virus from the global scene we need everyone to take the vaccine.

This is how we wiped out horrible, pandemic disease like polio and small pox.

Howard why haven’t vaccines wiped out the flu?

How are polio and small pox different from the flu or covid?

[Howard]

Howard why haven’t vaccines wiped out the flu?

How are polio and small pox different from the flu or covid?

Ok, I can tell you that the common cold we catch can be one of 160 different variants of a rhinovirus.
It's annoying, but not fatal and rarely requires a hospital stay .

Things like Covid are a form of coronavirus with a very active protein spike that can target lung tissue.
This makes them much more dangerous then a regular flu virus.

Obviously some avg slob like me doesn't have all the answers on this stuff.
Stick with credible , reliable medical science based sites for info .
The amount of misleading info is off the chart. For many , Covid is more about political agendas then bio-medical science.

[Dave D]

Ok, I can tell you that the common cold we catch can be one of 160 different variants of a rhinovirus.
It's annoying, but not fatal and rarely requires a hospital stay .

Things like Covid are a form of coronavirus with a very active protein spike that can target lung tissue.
This makes them much more dangerous then a regular flu virus.

Obviously some avg slob like me doesn't have all the answers on this stuff.
Stick with credible , reliable medical science based sites for info .
The amount of misleading info is off the chart. For many , Covid is more about political agendas then bio-medical science.

No I understand but I’m only pointing out the “obvious” and I think because of the type of virus it is we will never eliminate Covid19.
So the flu and a cold are the same?

[Abelard Lindsey]

I've got an idea that ought to make everyone happy. There are a lot of people in the U.S. who don't want the vaccines. At the same time, there are plenty of people around the world, especially developing countries, who do want the vaccines. Why not send them all of our unused supply? That way everyone gets what they want.

[WeightPSHR]

Agree with that 100%.
Plenty of books, interviews and even movies have been made on the evil tobacco industry.
As Prime already posted, the cigg. industry has taken a huge hit in USA  revenue $$, since I've been a kid.
Tobacco is BIG money and the industry uses those deep products to lobby congress.


This may not be the answer you want  , but here goes:

The United States was able  outlaw booze aka "prohibition" ,when it passed the 18th amd. in Jan of 1919.
This was repealed by the passing of the 21st amd. in Dec 1933.

Prohibition spawned a new big money industry of illegal booze.
In fact, famous gangsters like Al Capone , was so wealthy from illegal booze sales, he ran Chicago in the 1920's.

Bathtub gin and moonshine with insecticide caused serious health problems , even blindness.
Gangsters were shooting up the streets and the public refused to stop drinking , PERIOD.

In the end , the law couldn't stop most people from drinking , so they decided to make booze legal (again) with some regulations.

Despite some Covid vaccine refusals, the vast majority of people WANT a vaccine to be safe.
If the same majority refused the vaccine, their is NOTHING practical the Gov could do to make people.

Make no mistake, thanks in part ot social media and countless news sources, you can insulate yourself from opposing views.
If all you hear and see agrees with YOUR view, it's natural for you think it's the majority opinion.
That's why we all need to get our heads out our collective asses and look around to know what's really going on.

I can appreciate your well thought out reply....but the government hasn't done anything to stop tobacco farming. They're merely taxing it to make money.

Covid is do horrible according to the government and libtards, but just as many people die from tobacco each year and they do nothing about it. I don't think you can compare it to prohibition...as booze is far easier to make.

[WeightPSHR]

Ok, I can tell you that the common cold we catch can be one of 160 different variants of a rhinovirus.
It's annoying, but not fatal and rarely requires a hospital stay .

Things like Covid are a form of coronavirus with a very active protein spike that can target lung tissue.
This makes them much more dangerous then a regular flu virus.

Obviously some avg slob like me doesn't have all the answers on this stuff.
Stick with credible , reliable medical science based sites for info .
The amount of misleading info is off the chart. For many , Covid is more about political agendas then bio-medical science.

Covid is not lethal for most and anyone that is worried can get vaccinated. How is that selfish?

[AbrahamG]

Between Ted Cruz and Ted Nugent, who is the bigger pussy?

[Tapeworm]

I've got an idea that ought to make everyone happy. There are a lot of people in the U.S. who don't want the vaccines. At the same time, there are plenty of people around the world, especially developing countries, who do want the vaccines. Why not send them all of our unused supply? That way everyone gets what they want.

It could be true that you're harming others by not taking it. The essential question remains how to balance the individual's rights against the welfare of the group.

I'm reminded that humanity's finest hours have always involved the difficult sacrifice of a vexatious and dangerous minority who had to be burnt at the stake or placed into internment camps or box cars for the betterment of society overall.

History has always vindicated these necessary actions, so the employment of punitive measures to encourage the adoption of a product which isn't quite selling itself, but is nevertheless necessary, will be similarly justified by the eventual positive outcome it produces.