The Covid Emergency is Over

[Necrosis]

nah I just don't buy he is a demon that willfully killed people.

It's not either/or

[Dos Equis]

OMG science changes!! we need science to be like religion so it never changes and updates as new evidence comes to light! It's not like previous vaccines reduced transmission rates what a crazy assumption during a novel pandemic. Maybe it's because it was a new style of vaccine?

Dark matter might not exist!!! but they based theories of the universe on it???

https://www.space.com/astronomy/dark-universe/does-dark-matter-actually-exist-new-theory-says-it-could-be-gravity-behaving-strangely

They should all be thrown in jail dig up einstein and burn him.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-myths/art-20485720

The science didn't change.  He, along with many others, simply lied about it.  The "vaccine" never stopped transmission or prevented people from spreading the virus.  Did you watch the clip? 

[Necrosis]

The science didn't change.  He, along with many others, simply lied about it.  The "vaccine" never stopped transmission or prevented people from spreading the virus.  Did you watch the clip?

Vaccines generally reduce transmission significantly. Do you dispute this? in this rapid evolving novel situation where time was of the essence a new for of vaccine was used, do you think it's reasonable to conclude before we had the data (aka until we vaccinated) that it would likely reduce transmission. The virus also rapidly altered requiring alterations to the vaccine, something that isn't incredibly common with older viruses that humans have been interacting with.

[Dos Equis]

Vaccines generally reduce transmission significantly. Do you dispute this? in this rapid evolving novel situation where time was of the essence a new for of vaccine was used, do you think it's reasonable to conclude before we had the data (aka until we vaccinated) that it would likely reduce transmission. The virus also rapidly altered requiring alterations to the vaccine, something that isn't incredibly common with older viruses that humans have been interacting with.

They didn't say it reduced transmission.  They said it stopped transmission.  That is and always was a lie.

Did you watch the video?  Gupta said the science was clear that the vaccines worked.  That was a lie.

[Humble Narcissist]

They didn't say it reduced transmission.  They said it stopped transmission.  That is and always was a lie.

Did you watch the video?  Gupta said the science was clear that the vaccines worked.  That was a lie.

Gupta needs to come on here and debate us. I'd crush his Indian ass.

[Necrosis]

They didn't say it reduced transmission.  They said it stopped transmission.  That is and always was a lie.

Did you watch the video?  Gupta said the science was clear that the vaccines worked.  That was a lie.

They did work and do work. The virus changed mulitiple times. The flu does the same, new vaccines have to be made to match the virus.

[chaos]

Crazy how there is no changing covid virus from animal to man. It just randomly appeared one day, poof!

[illuminati]

They didn't say it reduced transmission.  They said it stopped transmission.  That is and always was a lie.

Did you watch the video?  Gupta said the science was clear that the vaccines worked.  That was a lie.

Yes they did say it stopped transmission - Only it probably didn't work
Because I didn't have my Vaccination 
As it only works if everyone had it. 

[illuminati]

They did work and do work. The virus changed mulitiple times. The flu does the same, new vaccines have to be made to match the virus.

Pronoun Boy

Dos has got you they did say it stopped transmission
Just admit you are wrong on that point.

I admitted I was incorrect when you got me, you said you had & did
admit when you were wrong & yet here you are digging your heels in & not
wanting to admit you got it wrong. 

[Grape Ape]

They did work and do work. The virus changed mulitiple times. The flu does the same, new vaccines have to be made to match the virus.

But they didn't say the ineffectiveness was due to variants.

They said full stop, then pivoted to rare "breakthroughs", then the rare breakthroughs became the norm.

But even given that, why mandate shots for companies over 100, AFTER they knew it wasn't stopping transmission, and that folks had natural immunity, etc....

[Dos Equis]

They did work and do work. The virus changed mulitiple times. The flu does the same, new vaccines have to be made to match the virus.

The "vaccines" never stopped transmission.  The science never changed in that regard.  So saying they "worked," when the context was the "vaccine" preventing transmission was always a lie.

Can you acknowledge that this statement by President Biden was false at the time he made it?

[Dos Equis]

Yes they did say it stopped transmission - Only it probably didn't work
Because I didn't have my Vaccination 
As it only works if everyone had it. 

Multiple people said it, from the POTUS down to talking heads on TV.

[Necrosis]

Pronoun Boy

Dos has got you they did say it stopped transmission
Just admit you are wrong on that point.

I admitted I was incorrect when you got me, you said you had & did
admit when you were wrong & yet here you are digging your heels in & not
wanting to admit you got it wrong. 

I am a medical professional dude, I read the papers, I don't follow what politicians say or tv pundits. So are we saying that the "they" is the medical establishment?

A lot of people said a lot of shit because there simply wasn't data so it was all based on previous virus's, vaccines, protocols etc..

[Necrosis]

The "vaccines" never stopped transmission.  The science never changed in that regard.  So saying they "worked," when the context was the "vaccine" preventing transmission was always a lie.

Can you acknowledge that this statement by President Biden was false at the time he made it?

They reduced transmission, they were never tested for stopping transmission.

He is making a false statement in the video.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/preventing-transmission-never-required-covid-vaccines-initial-approval-pfizer-2024-02-12/

The initial papers showed reduced transmission of early variants which got worse as it morphed. If you are saying stopping transmission 100% then no vaccine has ever done that. It's not a standard that any vaccine is held to.

Really the vaccine worked to reduce severity.

I can see why him saying such a thing may have been advised if you look at how serious some of the models at the time where.

Again, I do not agree with the roll out, rules etc around covid. I have stated that many times.

[Necrosis]

But they didn't say the ineffectiveness was due to variants.

They said full stop, then pivoted to rare "breakthroughs", then the rare breakthroughs became the norm.

But even given that, why mandate shots for companies over 100, AFTER they knew it wasn't stopping transmission, and that folks had natural immunity, etc....

That was what the papers show, it lost ability to reduce transmission as the virus morphed, much like the flu vaccines they have to make guesses on.

I honestly was not following what "they" were saying incredibly closely.

The mandates make sense if you realize that they reduce severe illness. At first there was quite the burden on the medical system and multiple places without ventilators. This caused others to die who required surgery, beds etc..

I think when you look at the fact that the vaccine has less risks than the actual virus and it reduced severity its a no brainer to get it, there isn't a logical reason not to.

in the realm of public health there is some degree of sacrifice required for the greater good, it's a slippery slope but it's a reality.

I generally (expect wrt trump) have pretty nuanced views as I am an anti-reductionist at heart. I realize that language has innumerable ghosts in it and can only take one side at a time. Front doesn't occur without back, there is actually no such thing as front (inherently), so incredibly reductionistic statements don't make much sense to me.

Like saying help stop transmission is correct, stopping transmission is not.

[chaos]

Don't point out the fallacies in my pathetic career!!! I change diapers, I am important!!!

[Necrosis]

Don't point out the fallacies in my pathetic career!!! I change diapers, I am important!!!

I am no one and nothing. wu-wei son.

Said another way I am a plurality of forces in process.

Said another way, i chop wood carry water and change diapers.

You didn't use the word fallacy correctly there, just fyi.

[Grape Ape]

That was what the papers show, it lost ability to reduce transmission as the virus morphed, much like the flu vaccines they have to make guesses on.

I honestly was not following what "they" were saying incredibly closely.

The mandates make sense if you realize that they reduce severe illness. At first there was quite the burden on the medical system and multiple places without ventilators. This caused others to die who required surgery, beds etc..

I think when you look at the fact that the vaccine has less risks than the actual virus and it reduced severity its a no brainer to get it, there isn't a logical reason not to.

in the realm of public health there is some degree of sacrifice required for the greater good, it's a slippery slope but it's a reality.

I generally (expect wrt trump) have pretty nuanced views as I am an anti-reductionist at heart. I realize that language has innumerable ghosts in it and can only take one side at a time. Front doesn't occur without back, there is actually no such thing as front (inherently), so incredibly reductionistic statements don't make much sense to me.

Like saying help stop transmission is correct, stopping transmission is not.

If they stop severe illness, then the vaccinated should have no fear of the unvaccinated, so they absolutely do not make sense.

There is no reason to force anyone who didn't want to take it to have to in order to return to work.  Based on what you said, they are a danger to nobody.

[Necrosis]

If they stop severe illness, then the vaccinated should have no fear of the unvaccinated, so they absolutely do not make sense.

There is no reason to force anyone who didn't want to take it to have to in order to return to work.  Based on what you said, they are a danger to nobody.

It reduces risk of severe illness would be more accurate, substantially so.

I don't see how your charge refutes my point about hospitals and burden on the system. Less severe illness means less medical intervention, less burden. People refusing at the start could of lead to a meltdown. They were literally running out of ventilators and the ICU was being overrun. The unhealthy were getting to some pretty bad places quickly. Remember, the death rate was 5.1% in the vector country at the start.

I agree there is no reason to force anyone. Once enough folks were vaccinated and the virus got weaker naturally that whole thing should have ended.

However, the more folks that are vaccinated the better. Same with polio, measles etc..

[Dos Equis]

They reduced transmission, they were never tested for stopping transmission.

He is making a false statement in the video.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/preventing-transmission-never-required-covid-vaccines-initial-approval-pfizer-2024-02-12/

The initial papers showed reduced transmission of early variants which got worse as it morphed. If you are saying stopping transmission 100% then no vaccine has ever done that. It's not a standard that any vaccine is held to.

Really the vaccine worked to reduce severity.

I can see why him saying such a thing may have been advised if you look at how serious some of the models at the time where.

Again, I do not agree with the roll out, rules etc around covid. I have stated that many times.

Ok.  That's progress.  Thank you for acknowledging.  He wasn't the only one who said it stopped transmission.  And they used that false narrative to try and shame and force people into getting the vaccine.   

[Dos Equis]

It reduces risk of severe illness would be more accurate, substantially so.

I don't see how your charge refutes my point about hospitals and burden on the system. Less severe illness means less medical intervention, less burden. People refusing at the start could of lead to a meltdown. They were literally running out of ventilators and the ICU was being overrun. The unhealthy were getting to some pretty bad places quickly. Remember, the death rate was 5.1% in the vector country at the start.

I agree there is no reason to force anyone. Once enough folks were vaccinated and the virus got weaker naturally that whole thing should have ended.

However, the more folks that are vaccinated the better. Same with polio, measles etc..

You are missing Grape Ape's point.  Even if we assume the vaccine reduced the risk of severe illness, the fact the vaccine did not stop transmission completely undercuts the mandates. 

[Necrosis]

Ok.  That's progress.  Thank you for acknowledging.  He wasn't the only one who said it stopped transmission.  And they used that false narrative to try and shame and force people into getting the vaccine.

They did that for potentially good reasons though. Do you think their logic was nefarious?

[Necrosis]

You are missing Grape Ape's point.  Even if we assume the vaccine reduced the risk of severe illness, the fact the vaccine did not stop transmission completely undercuts the mandates.

I get his point, unless you are suggesting the only reason the mandates were in place was to "stop" transmission.

What mandates are you referring to? as a canadian I may not know what you are actually referencing.

[Grape Ape]

It reduces risk of severe illness would be more accurate, substantially so.

I don't see how your charge refutes my point about hospitals and burden on the system. Less severe illness means less medical intervention, less burden. People refusing at the start could of lead to a meltdown. They were literally running out of ventilators and the ICU was being overrun. The unhealthy were getting to some pretty bad places quickly. Remember, the death rate was 5.1% in the vector country at the start.

I agree there is no reason to force anyone. Once enough folks were vaccinated and the virus got weaker naturally that whole thing should have ended.

However, the more folks that are vaccinated the better. Same with polio, measles etc..

If people had natural immunity and/or no comorbidities, they had no reason to get a vaccine.  That aspect was ignored.

The mandate happened as Delta was changing to Omnicrom.  Omnicrom is what ended the pandemic.

The mandate was retarded, stupid, and assinine.

[Dos Equis]

They did that for potentially good reasons though. Do you think their logic was nefarious?

It was totalitarian.  It wasn't based on science.  It was knowingly false.  Does that = nefarious?  I guess so.