Author Topic: Carnivore Diet  (Read 56375 times)

kreator

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #275 on: April 18, 2022, 10:40:03 AM »
I‘m closing in on the 72nd hour of my fast. If I can sleep tonight I will extend it to another 24hrs. Love the flat belly

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #276 on: April 18, 2022, 11:03:44 AM »
I like steak but I don't want to eat 2 pounds of it every day.  I can't even tolerate eating more than about 6-8 ounces at one meal.

You don't have to eat 2 pounds of beef every day.  You eat when you are hungry, and eat until you are full.  That means the amount you eat may vary daily depending on your individual needs.

You can also eat other meats, eggs and low fat dairy if these don't bother you.  Eggs and casein in dairy can be inflammatory to some people.  I just ate two big grilled Salmon filets brushed in butter and seasoned with Old Bay seasoning, no sides.

I don't know of any bodybuilders (natural or enhanced) who use this diet.  I don't believe the BS about Nubret.  He might have gorged at night but I'm not buying the 5lbs of horsemeat at one meal and he was also known to eat rice and beans and he supposedly like french pastries too. 

I don't know many bodybuilders (especially natural ones) who follow the carnivore style diet. 
There probably is someone (that Trystin Lee kid comes too mind and Mark Bell)

If by bodybuilders you mean guys who compete, then I don't know any either.  If you mean guys who lift weights in order to gain as much muscle mass as possible, then I know plenty, myself included.  I competed in the past and did very well, but I wasn't on a low carb diet back then.

Some bodybuilders who go on a ketogenic/carnivore diet complain about a lack of energy when lifting, but that is due to low sodium and a lack of adaptation.  If you get 1g sodium before your workout to increase blood volume and stick with this diet long enough, you'll adapt over a period of weeks or months depending on the individual and you'll feel like you have more energy than ever.  You are now burning body fat for energy instead of glucose, so energy feels like it's limitless.

I don't believe a diet like this is ideal for building Mr. Olympia level of muscle mass because on this diet Insulin levels stay relatively low, and my understanding is that Insulin levels must be maximized in order to build that level of muscle mass.  That's not necessarily ideal for optimal health, but it is probably necessary for building huge muscles.

Bottom line is that if it works for you that's great but it's definitely not ideal for everyone (for a variety of reasons)

Agreed.  Most people who start this diet and stick with it for decades or for life have one or more health conditions reversed by this life style and that keeps them strongly motivated.  Otherwise I don't believe they'd do it.

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #277 on: April 18, 2022, 11:19:27 AM »
Dom has also said that he thinks fruit is OK in moderation and says he eats blueberries, usually at night

Right.  He eats some vegetables too.  Dom's diet is more of a very meat heavy, ketogenic diet than a carnivore diet.

In his opinion, a very meat heavy ketogenic diet long term is optimal for good health.

He believes the vegan diet is not optimal long term because it will likely lead to nutrient deficiencies.  He believes the carnivore diet too is not optimal long term because it's "too nutrient dense" and it may lead to vitamin and mineral toxicity, especially for those who consume organ meats and men on hormone replacement therapy.




Straw Man

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #278 on: April 18, 2022, 11:25:31 AM »
You don't have to eat 2 pounds of beef every day.  You eat when you are hungry, and eat until you are full.  That means the amount you eat may vary daily depending on your individual needs.

You can also eat other meats, eggs and low fat dairy if these don't bother you.  Eggs and casein in dairy can be inflammatory to some people.  I just ate two big grilled Salmon filets brushed in butter and seasoned with Old Bay seasoning, no sides.

If by bodybuilders you mean guys who compete, then I don't know any either. If you mean guys who lift weights in order to gain as much muscle mass as possible, then I know plenty, myself included.  I competed in the past and did very well, but I wasn't on a low carb diet back then.

Some bodybuilders who go on a ketogenic/carnivore diet complain about a lack of energy when lifting, but that is due to low sodium and a lack of adaptation.  If you get 1g sodium before your workout to increase blood volume and stick with this diet long enough, you'll adapt over a period of weeks or months depending on the individual and you'll feel like you have more energy than ever.  You are now burning body fat for energy instead of glucose, so energy feels like it's limitless.

I don't believe a diet like this is ideal for building Mr. Olympia level of muscle mass because on this diet Insulin levels stay relatively low, and my understanding is that Insulin levels must be maximized in order to build that level of muscle mass.  That's not necessarily ideal for optimal health, but it is probably necessary for building huge muscles.

Agreed. Most people who start this diet and stick with it for decades or for life have one or more health conditions reversed by this life style and that keeps them strongly motivated.  Otherwise I don't believe they'd do it.

yes, I mean guy who compete or guys who are trying to gain muscle.  Since this diet is low to zero carb it's also appetite suppressing which makes it hard to gain weight/muscle. 

do you have any actual proof (more than anecdotal) or is that just a gut feeling

people tend to stick with what works for them and for some people this "works" and for others it doesn't

just like most things in life


loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #279 on: April 18, 2022, 11:31:05 AM »
Do people drink pasteurised dairy on carnivore?

Most people on a carnivore diet don't drink milk at all because it has too many carbs.  Many of the benefits of a carnivore diet are due to getting into and staying in a state of ketosis.

In order to do that, most people have to consume less than 20g carbs per day.  Two glasses of milk, raw or not, have 24g of carbs.

Many people are lactose intolerant.

Very low carb cheese, sour cream, heavy whipping cream, cream cheese, and butter in small daily amounts are okay on a carnivore diet for some people because these are practically lactose free and therefore very low carb or zero carb.

To many people, casein protein in dairy is inflammatory.  So they eliminate dairy from their diet all together.

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #280 on: April 18, 2022, 11:33:06 AM »
do you have any actual proof (more than anecdotal) or is that just a gut feeling

Which part of everything I posted are you specifically asking about?

joswift

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #281 on: April 18, 2022, 11:54:53 AM »
Most people on a carnivore diet don't drink milk at all because it has too many carbs.  Many of the benefits of a carnivore diet are due to getting into and staying in a state of ketosis.

In order to do that, most people have to consume less than 20g carbs per day.  Two glasses of milk, raw or not, have 24g of carbs.

Many people are lactose intolerant.

Very low carb cheese, sour cream, heavy whipping cream, cream cheese, and butter in small daily amounts are okay on a carnivore diet for some people because these are practically lactose free and therefore very low carb or zero carb.

To many people, casein protein in dairy is inflammatory.  So they eliminate dairy from their diet all together.
you also have to have very low protein to stay in ketosis, not ideal for a bodybuilder

anyone over 100gms protein will be lucky to be in ketosis

The Keto Kid

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #282 on: April 18, 2022, 11:55:34 AM »
I‘m closing in on the 72nd hour of my fast. If I can sleep tonight I will extend it to another 24hrs. Love the flat belly
Awesome man, how do you feel?

The Keto Kid

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #283 on: April 18, 2022, 12:00:02 PM »
you also have to have very low protein to stay in ketosis, not ideal for a bodybuilder

anyone over 100gms protein will be lucky to be in ketosis
Not quite true, if you eat 1 meal a day or even intermittent fast in an 18-6 time frame, you'll be back into ketosis likely within 10-12 hours.

joswift

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #284 on: April 18, 2022, 12:08:34 PM »
Not quite true, if you eat 1 meal a day or even intermittent fast in an 18-6 time frame, you'll be back into ketosis likely within 10-12 hours.

thats why I said "stay" in ketosis
As soon as you eat your body starts glugogenisis and hey presto no ketosis

The Keto Kid

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #285 on: April 18, 2022, 12:15:16 PM »
thats why I said "stay" in ketosis
As soon as you eat your body starts glugogenisis and hey presto no ketosis
Absolutely for athletes they should actually aim for gluconeogenesis,  this will help with electrolyte balance and just getting good pumps in the gym. The only people they need to be in continuous ketosis are the ones with medical conditions.

joswift

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #286 on: April 18, 2022, 12:19:59 PM »
Absolutely for athletes they should actually aim for gluconeogenesis,  this will help with electrolyte balance and just getting good pumps in the gym. The only people they need to be in continuous ketosis are the ones with medical conditions.

agreed

_bruce_

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #287 on: April 19, 2022, 08:44:29 AM »
Meat is king but we weren't made for eating only meat. Still better than flour and other fillers.
.

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #288 on: April 19, 2022, 11:08:56 AM »
Since this diet is low to zero carb it's also appetite suppressing which makes it hard to gain weight/muscle. 

Not necessarily.  Yes, this diet is very appetite suppressing. However, I haven't yet heard anyone on this diet complain about not being able to gain weight.  The Asian girl you posted and the white girl I posted both gained a healthy amount of weight on this diet.

What some people, usually women, on this diet report is that they can't lose weight or that they actually gain weight when they are trying to lose it.

What they are told to do in order to stop gaining weight and start losing weight are the same things you could do to gain weight on this diet.  They are told to not avoid fat in whole foods, but at the same time to not add more fat:  Don't cook your fatty meats in butter, bacon grease, lard, beef tallow, etc.  Don't melt butter or bacon grease on your steaks or burger patties before you eat them.  Don't melt butter in your coffee, if you drink coffee.

Doing those things could actually add lots of calories from fat and very easily create a calorie surplus.  As we all know, fat has more than twice the number of calories per gram than protein and carbs.

Another thing you can do to gain weight on this diet is to finish your meat heavy meals by snacking on pork rinds, peperoni slices, boiled eggs, very low carb cheese, and/or drinking heavy whipping cream with a drop of vanilla extract and your favorite artificial sweetener.

you also have to have very low protein to stay in ketosis, not ideal for a bodybuilder

anyone over 100gms protein will be lucky to be in ketosis

joswift brought up a good point about protein on this diet, although I disagree with his 100g limit.  Another reason why a carnivore diet is not ideal for a Mr. Olympia level bodybuilder is because eating too much protein will raise insulin levels, nowhere nearly as much as carbs, and somewhat suppress ketone production.  But this is not an issue unless you want to stay in ketosis 24/7.

Many carnivores I know consume 1g protein per pound of "desired" body weight and they seem to be doing fine gaining and maintaining muscle mass while staying in ketosis.

In theory, consuming very little to no carbs and very little to no plant-based foods allows your body to absorb animal protein much more efficiently, so you may not need nearly as much protein on this diet as others do.

Within a food source, other components alter the overall digestibility of the proteins. Some plant foods contain anti-nutritional factors that decrease protein digestibility. Legumes, cereals, potatoes and tomatoes contain inhibitors that reduce protein digestibility by blocking trypsin, pepsin and other gut proteases (Savelkoul et al., 1992; Liener, 1994; Friedman and Brandon, 2001). Cereal grains and legume seeds contain tannins (polyphenols) that bind strongly to dietary proteins and digestive enzymes, thus inhibiting protein digestion (Jansman, 1993; Jansman et al., 1994). Nuts, seeds and grains contain phytic acid (Lott et al., 2002), which chelates minerals such as calcium and zinc. As these minerals are necessary cofactors for digestive enzymes (e.g., alkaline phosphatase, carboxypeptidases and aminopeptidases), phytic acid in foods reduces overall protein digestibility (Ryden and Selvendran, 1993). Many legumes and alliums contain saponins, which form part of the plant’s defense system (Francis et al., 2002). These saponins reduce protein digestibility by forming saponin-protein complexes (Potter et al., 1993). Likewise, many plant proteins are surrounded by complex carbohydrates (non-starch polysaccharides or fiber)—often as cell wall components—that can impede enzyme access to the proteins (Duodu et al., 2003). The abundance of anti-nutritional factors and complex carbohydrates in plant protein sources likely explains their overall lower digestibility than that of typical animal proteins.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4927412/

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #289 on: April 19, 2022, 11:10:50 AM »
Meat is king but we weren't made for eating only meat. Still better than flour and other fillers.

We weren't made for eating the majority of modern "foods" people eat today.

https://tubitv.com/movies/518462/the-perfect-human-diet

joswift

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #290 on: April 19, 2022, 11:27:59 AM »


joswift brought up a good point about protein on this diet, although I disagree with his 100g limit.  Another reason why a carnivore diet is not ideal for a Mr. Olympia level bodybuilder is because eating too much protein will raise insulin levels, nowhere nearly as much as carbs, and somewhat suppress ketone production.  But this is not an issue unless you want to stay in ketosis 24/7.

Many carnivores I know consume 1g protein per pound of "desired" body weight and they seem to be doing fine gaining and maintaining muscle mass while staying in ketosis.

In theory, consuming very little to no carbs and very little to no plant-based foods allows your body to absorb animal protein much more efficiently, so you may not need nearly as much protein on this diet as other do.

Within a food source, other components alter the overall digestibility of the proteins. Some plant foods contain anti-nutritional factors that decrease protein digestibility. Legumes, cereals, potatoes and tomatoes contain inhibitors that reduce protein digestibility by blocking trypsin, pepsin and other gut proteases (Savelkoul et al., 1992; Liener, 1994; Friedman and Brandon, 2001). Cereal grains and legume seeds contain tannins (polyphenols) that bind strongly to dietary proteins and digestive enzymes, thus inhibiting protein digestion (Jansman, 1993; Jansman et al., 1994). Nuts, seeds and grains contain phytic acid (Lott et al., 2002), which chelates minerals such as calcium and zinc. As these minerals are necessary cofactors for digestive enzymes (e.g., alkaline phosphatase, carboxypeptidases and aminopeptidases), phytic acid in foods reduces overall protein digestibility (Ryden and Selvendran, 1993). Many legumes and alliums contain saponins, which form part of the plant’s defense system (Francis et al., 2002). These saponins reduce protein digestibility by forming saponin-protein complexes (Potter et al., 1993). Likewise, many plant proteins are surrounded by complex carbohydrates (non-starch polysaccharides or fiber)—often as cell wall components—that can impede enzyme access to the proteins (Duodu et al., 2003). The abundance of anti-nutritional factors and complex carbohydrates in plant protein sources likely explains their overall lower digestibility than that of typical animal proteins.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4927412/

Good info, thanks..

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #291 on: April 19, 2022, 11:29:22 AM »
Good info, thanks..

You are welcome!

loco

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #292 on: April 19, 2022, 11:55:52 AM »
Why would anyone get that skinny?

Long term veganism, autoimmune disorders, eating disorders, mental illness.


slow and steady

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #293 on: April 19, 2022, 11:39:10 PM »
Anyone try this? I put on some winter weight and need to cut a little. I just don’t have the discipline to count calories. So, I’m considering the carnivore diet. It seems simple enough. Thoughts?

Yes I am carnivore on and off (mostly on) for a few years, and the benefits to my health have been incredible.

BossBoss

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #294 on: April 20, 2022, 12:10:04 AM »
Long term veganism, autoimmune disorders, eating disorders, mental illness.



Bullshit..veganism doesn't make you skinny too few callories make you skinny.
+ mental illness and eating disorders has nothing to do with veganism. (long term or short term makes no difference)

Lame Propaganda..

slow and steady

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #295 on: April 20, 2022, 12:16:49 AM »
+ mental illness  has zero to do with veganism. (long term or short term makes no difference)


I disagree.  Carnivore diet has been shown to clinically reverse a variety of mental illnesses including Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia..  What is the connection here?  The removal of VEGETABLES and/or CARBS.   Possibly the INCREASE in saturated fats or other meat nutrients also has something to do with it.

 Are veggies and carbs ALWAYS harmful?  I'm not saying that...

kreator

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #296 on: April 20, 2022, 12:44:54 AM »
Awesome man, how do you feel?

First 2 days was gwtting hard close to evening hours, 3rd day was somewhat easier, the 4th day i wasn‘t even hungry till around 18:00. at 19:00 i ate my first meal. I would have continued for at least a day but had some unrelated personal stressful situation and then decided to quit my fast. I made it to 91 hours all together. Will do it again in a month. Will opt for 5-7 days. Lost some fat around the waist and felt lighter overall. But as i said, I would love to try it for at least 5-7 days.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #297 on: April 20, 2022, 03:11:39 AM »
Long term veganism, autoimmune disorders, eating disorders, mental illness.


It could be correlation as opposed to causation. Everyone I know who is Vegan was already crazy to start with.

slow and steady

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #298 on: April 20, 2022, 03:14:41 AM »
It could be correlation as opposed to causation. Everyone I know who is Vegan was already crazy to start with.

yes i agree - i have noticed this phenomenon - people with mental health issues are drawn to veganism - also impressionable young women with body image issues

sort of similar to the types that are drawn to drug assisted bodybuilding if I am completely honest

IroNat

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Re: Carnivore Diet
« Reply #299 on: April 20, 2022, 04:02:44 AM »
Libtards preaching the vegan way...



Leo DiCaprio learns it's not his private jet and yacht that's causing climate change but people eating hamburgers.