No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!

[Wiggs]

Not any version of Ronnie, any version of Dorian, any version of Phil, Lee Haney or anyone else. This is as close to perfect as it's going to get.

Had this version showed up to the 98 Mr. O, he would have beaten Ronnie they would have justified it by saying Ronnie's gyno cost him. In reality he's just more close to perfect than Ronnie.

5'10 232lbs 98 Arnold Classic Flex Wheeler!

[joswift]

soft and oily compared to Ronnie, and that video is stretched out

[NarcissisticDeity]

1993 was eons better NO oil back then by 98 forget about it

[Wiggs]

His 98 Ironman version a week earlier is a close 2nd!
Start at 2:06

[

[NarcissisticDeity]

1992 he looked better

[Wiggs]

1993 was eons better NO oil back then by 98 forget about it

98 version is more dry and mature. Bigger and better than 93 at 218 vs 232.

[joswift]

98 version is more dry and mature. Bigger and better than 93 at 218 vs 232.

 

[Rambone]

soft and oily compared to Ronnie, and that video is stretched out

This. I prefer ‘93 Flex over this Flex anyways (no schmomo)

[Matt]

Not any version of Ronnie, any version of Dorian, any version of Phil, Lee Haney or anyone else. This is as close to perfect as it's going to get.

Had this version showed up to the 98 Mr. O, he would have beaten Ronnie they would have justified it by saying Ronnie's gyno cost him. In reality he's just more close to perfect than Ronnie.

5'10 232lbs 98 Arnold Classic Flex Wheeler!

If we're talking about a physique that we ourselves would want to have, or something like that - or who has the more aesthetically pleasing physique, then sure.

IMO, no one beats the 2003 version of Ronnie. When you have that much size on everyone...to me it's just impossible to deny him.

[Humble Narcissist]

Flex looked great but he was never unbeatable.

[Wiggs]

If we're talking about a physique that we ourselves would want to have, or something like that - or who has the more aesthetically pleasing physique, than sure.

IMO, no one beats the 2003 version of Ronnie. When you have that much size on everyone...to me it's just impossible to deny him.

Matt, I believe judging should be based on closest to being the most aesthetically pleasing mixed with size, conditioning and posing. And finally the least amount of flaws structurally and muscularly. Freakiness should have never entered the bodybuilding lexicon.

Prime Flex embodies my ideal more than anyone else.
2003 Ronnie was huge but lacked crisp conditioning and the detail he had a lighter weight. Furthermore, his posing in general is average and lacks the fluidity of Flex, Shawn, Kevin and even Dorian.

[Wiggs]

Flex looked great but he was never unbeatable.

That is because of his conditioning not his structure or lack of muscle. This version I posted is unbeatable.

[Wiggs]

soft and oily compared to Ronnie, and that video is stretched out

There's nothing soft or oily about this version of Flex. 99 Mr. O yes

[affeman]

Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore

[joswift]

Matt, I believe judging should be based on closest to being the most aesthetically pleasing mixed with size, conditioning and posing. And finally the least amount of flaws structurally and muscularly. Freakiness should have never entered the bodybuilding lexicon.

Prime Flex embodies my ideal more than anyone else.
2003 Ronnie was huge but lacked crisp conditioning and the detail he had a lighter weight. Furthermore, his posing in general is average and lacks the fluidity of Flex, Shawn, Kevin and even Dorian.

guy was loaded with fucking oil

If you want to talk about the most athestically pleasing human being Paris is the pinnacle.

[Wiggs]

guy was loaded with fucking oil

If you want to talk about the most athestically pleasing human being Paris is the pinnacle.

For a white guy but he doesn't compare to Flex AT ALL.

[Wiggs]

Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore

Please stop Terrence is great but he's like 5'6 170lbs. Vs. 5'10 232. Don't do that.

[joswift]

For a white guy but he doesn't compare to Flex AT ALL.

You have got to be trolling

[Wiggs]

You have got to be trolling

No I'm not trolling at all. If Bob Paris was black he'd be no Flex Wheeler, but in the mix with Paul Dillett, Cormier, Robby Robinson, Surge Nubret, Lee Haney, Charles Clairmont but because he's white he gets elevated by white guys as having the best aesthetics. BTW that's no shade to Bob, he had a beautiful physique...No homo he's a taller Zane with more muscle that was punished for his homosexuality. Should have placed higher but he wasn't beating Haney, not enough muscle on his tall physique.

Bob Paris is what people want Chris Bumstead to be but he's not. Bumstead is flawed as fuck. Skinny neck, short biceps insertions, average calves (especially for a white guy) and separation in his legs is mangled.

Israelites aka Negros have an overwhelming advantage when it comes to aesthetics in bodybuilding, this is why imo judging is less on aesthetics and more on a mixture of size and aesthetics and bodybuilders would have had to remain smaller and in general white guys rule on size in bodybuilding but it's not as big as the gap between black and white in aesthetics. Allowing Dorian to win in 94 took bodybuilding off the rails and devalued aesthetics and promoted size over aesthetics. It also was the beginning of overlooking guts in the name of size. This ended when Rhoden won the O when they punished a Mr. O for having a gut which had never been done.

Now Mr. O's and bodybuilders in general are back to having flat abs after 24 years of guts.

[Rambone]

Anybody else read the thread title like this?

[Hulkotron]

Wiggs: what are your thoughts on Phil Heath?

[NarcissisticDeity]

If we're talking about a physique that we ourselves would want to have, or something like that - or who has the more aesthetically pleasing physique, than sure.

IMO, no one beats the 2003 version of Ronnie. When you have that much size on everyone...to me it's just impossible to deny him.

98 beats 03 Ronnie 03 looks like trash compared to 98 there's no contest. He's much heavier that's about it

[Wiggs]

Wiggs: what are your thoughts on Phil Heath?

Phil is an all-time great but Phil is flawed. Phil doesn't have the aesthetics that Ronnie, Shawn, Cormier, Flex, Dorian, Clairmont and Dillett had.

Phil is exposed when he lifts his arms up in the front double biceps pose. While he has all the muscle he needs, his obliques make him appear blocky and he doesn't have a V taper. Same thing in his abs and thigh pose. Of course we all know he's a little narrow but in person let me assure you, Phil doesn't look narrow at all, it's that the others are ultra wide alla Jay Cutler.

Phil has the best back double biceps pose from head to toe...After Ronnie and even then it would have to be 98 or 99 Mr. O Ronnie or 01 Arnold Classic Ronnie. Because Ronnie doesn't dominate Phil in this pose.

Phil while narrowish in the rear lat spread is only beat by Dorian and Ronnie. He's that damn good. 

He has a great side chest and side triceps when his abs were flat. And his front lat spread was very complete as well.

IMO his best looks were 2010 Arnold even though he lost to Kai, 2011 and 2012 Mr. O.

In history comparing him other Mr. Os I only put him behind Ronnie and Dorian. His best look is better than Jay's and Dexter's best.

BUT Phil's best is not better than Flex Wheeler's best. Flex exposes Phil's structural flaws. I'll take the video I posted of 98 AC Flex over any version of Phil.

[OAK]

1993 was eons better NO oil back then by 98 forget about it

Totally agree.

As close to perfect as anyone has gotten in 93.


😮

[Matt]

Matt, I believe judging should be based on closest to being the most aesthetically pleasing mixed with size, conditioning and posing. And finally the least amount of flaws structurally and muscularly. Freakiness should have never entered the bodybuilding lexicon.

Prime Flex embodies my ideal more than anyone else.
2003 Ronnie was huge but lacked crisp conditioning and the detail he had a lighter weight. Furthermore, his posing in general is average and lacks the fluidity of Flex, Shawn, Kevin and even Dorian.

And that may be what this comes down to.

Ronnie was, from the stat you provided, 55-lb heavier than Flex.

That's over 20% heavier!

To me, it comes down to the question is: was Flex over 20% more aesthetic, or conditioned...or some combination of the two?

Then I would go with Flex.

But by your standard, if we take sheer freaky mass out of the picture, then Flex would almost universally be regarded as superior in terms of aesthetics.

My question is: how else was bodybuilding expected to evolve?

It seems to me it made sense that bodybuilding would continue to reward mass monsters until finally, we got these new categories.

Bodybuilding is hard to judge.

Also another point to add - I think most of the poses where Flex looks prettier than Ronnie are from the front. I'd be hard pressed to give him any back poses over Ronnie.

For me personally, I had never seen anything like Ronnie in 2003.