How many of you want a total halt to immigration?

[residue]

What do you think is happening now? that for every administration ever a bunch of uneducated laborers have managed to outsmart the might of the american government? this country could put a bomb up a ant's ass in botswana from a console in dc but they cant manage to stop a caravan of starving slow moving workers?

[IroNat]

Residue has a point.

However, we don't have to like it.

And Residue is a smartass.

[Primemuscle]

Immigration is fine as long they go through the process. Other than that…go home

This is a first! I agree with you. However, I would take it step further. Be prepared to go through the process or there is no invitation (immigration visa). No immigration visa means no entry. Immigrant visas start the process for permanent resident status, but they do not provide resident status themselves.

Following WWI, literacy tests kept many folks from obtaining visas. A 1924 law required immigrants to present medical certificates to the U.S. consul abroad and obtain a visa prior to arriving in the United States. 

What is interesting is there are provisions (laws) in place for entering the U.S., working in the U.S. (green card) and citizenship application. If the law was enforced, illegal immigration wouldn't be as big an issue as it is today. Otherwise no entry, 'too bad - so sad'.   

[residue]

This is a first! I agree with you. However, I would take it step further. Be prepared to go through the process or there is no invitation (immigration visa). No immigration visa means no entry. Immigrant visas start the process for permanent resident status, but they do not provide resident status themselves.

Following WWI, literacy tests kept many folks from obtaining visas. A 1924 law required immigrants to present medical certificates to the U.S. consul abroad and obtain a visa prior to arriving in the United States. 

What is interesting is there are provisions (laws) in place for entering the U.S., working in the U.S. (green card) and citizenship application. If the law was enforced, illegal immigration wouldn't be as big an issue as it is today. Otherwise no entry, 'too bad - so sad'.

bingo, it's not being enforced because it helps people make money and a lot of that money goes to dc for both parties.. hence the inaction on both sides..


that still doesnt answer my question, who does those jobs in the meantime if they are no illegals

[Primemuscle]

bingo, it's not being enforced because it helps people make money and a lot of that money goes to dc for both parties.. hence the inaction on both sides..


that still doesnt answer my question, who does those jobs in the meantime if they are no illegals

Fair warning, you won't like this reply.

People who legally work in the U.S. expect to be paid minimum wage or more. A lot of produce comes from California where minimum wage is $15.50 per hour, (California earns the most money from agriculture when compared to all other states). What this means is prices of goods and services will go up along with everything else.

Fresh off the farm food from Mexico, Chili, et al is anything but fresh. "Mexico provided over half of U.S. fresh fruit imports by value in 2019, exporting fresh fruit worth over $7 billion, followed by Chile, $1.8 billion, and Guatemala and Peru, $1.2 billion each".  https://www.ajot.com/premium/ajot-latin-american-fresh-produce-exports-to-us-rising#:~:text=As%20noted%20above%2C%20Mexico%20provided,and%20Peru%2C%20%241.2%20billion%20each.

By the time these products make it to the supermarket they will still not be ripe (unripe produce doesn't bruise or rot as easily), but it is guaranteed to be tasteless by comparison to the fruits and vegetables you grow in your garden.

So, the sad answer to this dilemma is already here, bottled fruit and vegetable supplements like these:


All this makes one long for the 'good old days' when in America, slaves produced and harvested what we (the elite) needed. No wonder so many folks want to keep "them" down on the farm. Well, that will not happen, thank goodness. It is a bitch when all 'men' are created and treated equally.     

[loco]

There is no solution because it is not a problem, it's happening as intended, illegals are a part of the economy. There always need to be a bottom rung, someone has to be the lowest of the low class.

It is a problem when even the Biden administration has to reverse course on it.

Biden turning to Trump-era rule to expel Venezuelan migrants

Two years ago, candidate Joe Biden loudly denounced President Donald Trump for immigration policies that inflicted “cruelty and exclusion at every turn,” including toward those fleeing the "brutal" government of socialist Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela.

Now, with increasing numbers of Venezuelans arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border as the Nov. 8 election nears, Biden has turned to an unlikely source for a solution: his predecessor’s playbook.

Biden last week invoked a Trump-era rule known as Title 42 — which Biden's own Justice Department is fighting in court — to deny Venezuelans fleeing their crisis-torn country the chance to request asylum at the border.

The rule, first invoked by Trump in 2020, uses emergency public health authority to allow the United States to keep migrants from seeking asylum at the border, based on the need to help prevent the spread of COVID-19.

Under the new Biden administration policy, Venezuelans who walk or swim across America's southern border will be expelled and any Venezuelan who illegally enters Mexico or Panama will be ineligible to come to the United States. But as many as 24,000 Venezuelans will be accepted at U.S. airports, similar to how Ukrainians have been admitted since Russia’s invasion in February.

The Biden policy marks an abrupt turn for the White House, which just weeks ago was lambasting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, both Republicans, for putting Venezuelan migrants “fleeing political persecution” on buses and planes to Democratic strongholds.

“These were children, they were moms, they were fleeing communism,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said at the time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-turning-trump-era-rule-121907682.html

[loco]

A surge in migration from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua brought the number of illegal crossings to the highest level ever recorded in a fiscal year. In the 12-month period that ended Sept. 30, migrants were stopped 2.38 million times, up 37% from 1.73 million times the year before and surpassing 2 million for the first time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-border-patrol-sending-migrants-060749727.html

[loco]

Texas mayor declares state of emergency over migrant swell



El Paso Mayor Oscar Leeser issued the state of emergency declaration to allow the city on the U.S. border with Mexico to tap into additional resources that are expected to become necessary after Title 42 expulsions end on Dec. 21

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-mayor-declares-state-emergency-053017155.html

[residue]

This is theatre put on for the public or to get money, like taking your shoe off at the airport

[chaos]

so you dont have an answer? correct?

Why wasnt your solution to go after those companies that hire illegals? why isnt that the goal of any administration? even the republicans that claim to do for border security never go after the people hiring illegals... and we all know where they are and what industries they work in

btw come on a little common sense, if im a drug dealer in columbia do you think i'm gonna come here to pick fruit? which job seems easier?

We could start a prisoner program, like they do with some other skills, we could use it as a form of working for welfare, I'm sure if I sat my dumb ass here for a while and really pondered it, I could come up with a few other ways. Your solution of allowing the borders to be wide open is dangerous and irresponsible. Will a wall stop illegal immigration, no, will it slow it down, yes. Will enforcing the hundreds of laws on the books also slow it down, yes. There's no question that both sides use illegal immigration as a talking point, dems calling it a human rights bullshit, repubs calling it a criminal act. Which is closer to the truth?

[residue]

We could start a prisoner program, like they do with some other skills, we could use it as a form of working for welfare, I'm sure if I sat my dumb ass here for a while and really pondered it, I could come up with a few other ways. Your solution of allowing the borders to be wide open is dangerous and irresponsible. Will a wall stop illegal immigration, no, will it slow it down, yes. Will enforcing the hundreds of laws on the books also slow it down, yes. There's no question that both sides use illegal immigration as a talking point, dems calling it a human rights bullshit, repubs calling it a criminal act. Which is closer to the truth?

Go on ponder it, because you're going to need to find a way to get 11 million workers. that's how many you're looking to replace. on top of that it needs to be a seamless replacement to not really fuck with the economy(which we saw during covid is just a giant ponzi scheme built on a house of cards). again you're looking to solve a problem that does not exist, this economy and every economy in the world depends on this pseudo slave labour.  Illegal mexicans are akin to uyghur or african labours used by the chinese, they are necessary to the economy. Again that's why corps are never punished.

Again a wall is just theatre, it's assumed that like 80% of illegals come here legally, so unless you're planning to end tourism whats the wall gonna do besides waste money.   

[OzmO]

If you want to stop illegal immigration or significantly lessen it, go after those who employ them!  Make the fines so hefty they can bankrupt a company. 

But see, that's the real solution to this supposed "problem," No one is willing to look at it because both sides don't want this to change.

Illegal immigration is an issue used to move voters.

A wall is a joke and a way to make people feel better, and contractors make money.

[Irongrip400]

Go on ponder it, because you're going to need to find a way to get 11 million workers. that's how many you're looking to replace. on top of that it needs to be a seamless replacement to not really fuck with the economy(which we saw during covid is just a giant ponzi scheme built on a house of cards). again you're looking to solve a problem that does not exist, this economy and every economy in the world depends on this pseudo slave labour.  Illegal mexicans are akin to uyghur or african labours used by the chinese, they are necessary to the economy. Again that's why corps are never punished.

Again a wall is just theatre, it's assumed that like 80% of illegals come here legally, so unless you're planning to end tourism whats the wall gonna do besides waste money.

We need to do better promoting the trades and make it “sexy” to work with your hands. Also, some of these bullshit jobs people don’t want to do, aren’t really meant for adults to make a living. They’re for entry level labor to learn the trade. I’m not sure why we don't promote blue collar jobs like we do going to college.

[chaos]

Go on ponder it, because you're going to need to find a way to get 11 million workers. that's how many you're looking to replace. on top of that it needs to be a seamless replacement to not really fuck with the economy(which we saw during covid is just a giant ponzi scheme built on a house of cards). again you're looking to solve a problem that does not exist, this economy and every economy in the world depends on this pseudo slave labour.  Illegal mexicans are akin to uyghur or african labours used by the chinese, they are necessary to the economy. Again that's why corps are never punished.

Again a wall is just theatre, it's assumed that like 80% of illegals come here legally, so unless you're planning to end tourism whats the wall gonna do besides waste money.

It's kind of cute how you believe that illegals are sneaking across the border to work and not commit crimes. I agree 100% that corps should be punished swiftly and harshly for knowing employing illegals. We agree that cheap labor is necessary but not the means in which to get it. Like IG said, most of these types of jobs are entry level jobs and should be treated as such.

[residue]

We need to do better promoting the trades and make it “sexy” to work with your hands. Also, some of these bullshit jobs people don’t want to do, aren’t really meant for adults to make a living. They’re for entry level labor to learn the trade. I’m not sure why we don't promote blue collar jobs like we do going to college.

these jobs aren't trade. Tradesmen are skilled, tradesmen have labour unions and get paid a good living. These people are making poverty level wages for dangerous jobs, again you have to replace the labor force and keep the costs at poverty labor wages.. no citizen/legal immigrant can be paid that low, it’s illegal

[residue]

It's kind of cute how you believe that illegals are sneaking across the border to work and not commit crimes. I agree 100% that corps should be punished swiftly and harshly for knowing employing illegals. We agree that cheap labor is necessary but not the means in which to get it. Like IG said, most of these types of jobs are entry level jobs and should be treated as such.

jesus christ, these arent entry level jobs. there's no upward mobility, there's no apprentice fruit pricker that leads to a shop foreman job, these are people who get used for poverty wages, and if they demand more get ICE called on them and are replaced by another desperate illegal. That's the whole employment model for billion dollar corps

and this isn’t just cheaper labor being necessary, it’s labor at wages less than legally allowed.  Go ahead tho, keep thinking of a solution that doesn't raise the cost of strawberries to $30 a lb…. 

And again that’s why no administration, not a single administration has really tried to tackle it other than some talking points to appease voters

[chaos]

jesus christ, these arent entry level jobs. there's no upward mobility, there's no apprentice fruit pricker that leads to a shop foreman job, these are people who get used for poverty wages, and if they demand more get ICE called on them and are replaced by another desperate illegal. That's the whole employment model for billion dollar corps

and this isn’t just cheaper labor being necessary, it’s labor at wages less than legally allowed.  Go ahead tho, keep thinking of a solution that doesn't raise the cost of strawberries to $30 a lb…. 

And again that’s why no administration, not a single administration has really tried to tackle it other than some talking points to appease voters

Typical liberal. When faced with a problem, rather than look for a solution, you look to explain why the problem can't be solved and the rules should be thrown out and the problem ignored.
I've already agreed about the politicians, they're all scum, in politics for power and control.

[residue]

Typical liberal. When faced with a problem, rather than look for a solution, you look to explain why the problem can't be solved and the rules should be thrown out and the problem ignored.
I've already agreed about the politicians, they're all scum, in politics for power and control.

is this the part where you start with the insults?  i'd also like to point out you didn't exactly have a practical workable solution either, if fact no one has.  Again for the 10th time, I dont think this is a problem, this is a function of capitalism.

 I think capitalism is a flawed system, this is why EVERY SINGLE CAPITALIST country has his own class of workers like this, people who get paid less than in order for business owners to maximize profit. You'd rather bury your head in the sand than accept that america needs these people to do the shit jobs

[chaos]

is this the part where you start with the insults?

No, just pointing out the political party differences.

i'd also like to point out you didn't exactly have a practical workable solution either, if fact no one has.

I provided some sort of idea for a solution.

Again for the 10th time, I dont think this is a problem,

This is where we disagree.

You'd rather bury your head in the sand than accept that america needs these people to do the shit jobs

This is completely untrue. What I think has happened is that you've focused only on the labor force while I'm thinking in totality. There are other ways that could be explored for cheap labor, you say they aren't practical. Is it practical to allow illegal aliens into the country that don't follow the laws, cost taxpayers money, commit crimes and flee the country, the list goes on with the troubles of illegals.
Do you think everyone that crosses the border illegally is coming to America to work in an orchard or field picking strawberries?

[residue]

No, just pointing out the political party differences.
I provided some sort of idea for a solution.
This is where we disagree.
This is completely untrue. What I think has happened is that you've focused only on the labor force while I'm thinking in totality. There are other ways that could be explored for cheap labor, you say they aren't practical. Is it practical to allow illegal aliens into the country that don't follow the laws, cost taxpayers money, commit crimes and flee the country, the list goes on with the troubles of illegals.
Do you think everyone that crosses the border illegally is coming to America to work in an orchard or field picking strawberries?

of course i think it's practical, because those same illegals also save taxpayers money by keeping costs down, they benefit us by being here too.
 

[chaos]

of course i think it's practical, because those same illegals also save taxpayers money by keeping costs down, they benefit us by being here too.

How much do illegal immigrants save us

In 2017, the total cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was approximately $116 billion.

[Irongrip400]

these jobs aren't trade. Tradesmen are skilled, tradesmen have labour unions and get paid a good living. These people are making poverty level wages for dangerous jobs, again you have to replace the labor force and keep the costs at poverty labor wages.. no citizen/legal immigrant can be paid that low, it’s illegal

You are ill informed and most likely have never managed blue collar employees.

[loco]

There is no solution because it is not a problem, it's happening as intended, illegals are a part of the economy. There always need to be a bottom rung, someone has to be the lowest of the low class.

It is a problem for Kamala Harris now:

Busloads of migrants dropped off at vice president’s DC home on Christmas Eve



Multiple busloads of migrants were dropped off at Vice President Harris’s residence in Washington, D.C. on Saturday — Christmas Eve — leaving migrants on the streets in below-freezing temperatures, according to multiple reports.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/busloads-migrants-dropped-off-vice-124847301.html

She's not laughing now.

[Humble Narcissist]

I feel sorry for the migrants being stuck with her.

[loco]

Supreme Court blocks Biden administration for now from ending migrant expulsions under Title 42


https://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-blocks-biden-administration-212318729.html