Author Topic: Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?  (Read 1635 times)

mops

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Never make snow angels in a dog park
Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?
« on: August 14, 2023, 10:02:25 AM »
Has anyone ever wondered why modern Western societies seem to have an unhealthy fixation on leftist ideologies? Where does this obsession come from? After all, anyone with a bit of intellect can quickly point out the obvious flaws in socialism as an economic model. One major aspect of this doctrine remains largely ignored, though: socialist ideologies pose a quiet and harmful threat to our psycho-social environment, which might in turn leave the door open for a centrally planned economy in the not too distant future.

I happen to be familiar with this doctrine, and what I see today in the Western world gives me a strange sense of déjà vu. Behind the latest woke absurdities that keep making headlines, the tactics being used feel dangerously close to strategies established not so long ago behind the Iron Curtain.

In terms of ideas and knowledge, leftists and progressive liberals are often seen as illogical and socially awkward cretins with little practical sense and a weak grasp of how the economy functions in the real world. These so-called activists often serve as the useful idiots of a greater, supposedly ideal future. Without realizing it, they help advance a harmful agenda set in motion many years ago.

Socialism is divided into many schools of thought. The most famous example is probably Marxian socialism. I will not go too deeply into Marxist ideas, since they often turn into a tangled mess of theories, a perpetual work in progress if you like, especially if you read Karl Marx's books such as The German Ideology, The Manifesto, Foundations of a Critique of Political Economy, or his major work, Das Kapital, which is largely ignored anyway.

I will also refrain from commenting on Johann Karl Rodbertus' accusations of plagiarism against him.

To put it simply, Karl Marx (1818–1883) believed that social relations arise from the economic base. Material reality determines ideology, which is what he meant by Materialism. In other words, productive forces determine social relations. These relations then develop and evolve, eventually coming into contradiction with the original ones, creating tensions. These tensions are usually resolved through cycles of social revolutions.

Under the capitalist mode of production, this appears as a class struggle between the oppressor, meaning the bourgeoisie who own the means of production, and the oppressed class of productive workers, the proletariat, who produce goods and services.

According to Marx, this class struggle must eventually push capitalism into its final phase, setting the stage for a proletarian revolution that would lead to communism, meaning the abolition of private property as a means of production and its replacement with cooperative ownership. This would in theory end the division of labor, social classes, and the state. I will not digress into his critique of capitalism, as that is not the point of this post.

One question remains: why has it been so difficult to promote or bring about a revolution in Western Europe?


This question was raised by a prominent Italian Marxist figure, Antonio Gramsci (1891–1937), who emphasized one fundamental Marxian distinction between:
-1. An ideological superstructure (art, family, culture, religion, philosophy, law, media, politics, science, education)
-2. The economic base of a society.



There is a reciprocal relationship between the superstructure, meaning ideology, and the base, meaning the economy. Each part maintains and shapes the other. According to Gramsci, this superstructure determines how society as a whole reacts to economic and political changes. It is important to note that Marx argued the opposite, claiming that the economic base shapes the ideological superstructure and not the other way around.

Furthermore, Gramsci saw a difference between coercion and consent. No state, he argued, could rely only on coercion to maintain its position and power. The political aspect of consent was largely ignored by traditional Marxists, who focused almost entirely on the economic base.

But how exactly was consent supposed to be cultivated in an oppressive capitalist system? Gramsci answered by saying that the upper classes do not rule only through economics but through what he called Cultural Hegemony. Ideas, values, norms, and moral frameworks are promoted by the upper classes as natural and beneficial to the working class, leading the proletariat to accept this worldview as simply the way things are. As a result, the proletariat remains bound by socially constructed and invisible restraints and does not develop the mindset it would need to advance its own class interests and improve its political and economic position within capitalist societies. This is why, according to Gramsci, it has been so difficult to spark a revolution.

With this argument, he challenged Marx’s idea of the inevitable revolution associated with scientific socialism. His proposed solution was a passive revolution through the creation of a counter hegemonic force, which would undermine and dismantle existing Western ideas, values, and moral foundations and replace them with new cultural norms. Oppressed groups would, in effect, produce their own intellectuals and generate their own culture, media, rituals, and so on.

See where I am going with this?

Gramsci rejected the usual distinction between subject and object. For him, there were no inherent natural laws shaping human beings or societies and no essential human nature. Everything was formed by history and shaped by social relations and roles. In other words, nothing is fixed, and anyone can choose their identity, behavior, values, and even how nature should be understood.

In the modern world, one possible way to push counter hegemony is through the creation of many oppressed minorities. Imagine a large group of victimized people aggressively confronting their supposed oppressors, meaning Western societies, by challenging and defying Western ideological and moral foundations.

Sounds familiar? Feminism, LGBT-whatever movements, claims about toxic masculinity, narratives of historical racial victimization, gender ideologists, trans movements, so called oppressed minor attracted people, climate activists, neurodiversity (mental disorders are normal) and so on. Essentially, an entire group loudly declaring that they can do as they please and do not have to conform to what they see as the oppressive norms of a traditional, hardworking, white heterosexual society. The nuclear family becomes a prime target for this kind of cultural attack.

Gramscian movements began gaining ground in the 1950s through the 1970s. From 1992 to 2007, Joseph Buttigieg, who was Pete Buttigieg's father, translated and edited the four volumes of Antonio Gramsci's Prison Notebooks in English. He was also a founding member and president of the International Gramsci Society.

I don't know about you, but I feel that a quiet revolution meant to dismantle and rebuild the superstructure, meaning our ideologies, through the creation of a counter hegemonic force, which represents the consensual part of the Marxist equation, combined with deep economic reforms and growing authoritarianism, which reflects the Marxist idea of coercion, sets the stage quite well for ideas like “You will eat the bugs” and “You will own nothing and be happy,” along with intrusive digital currencies and controlled allowances.

Sorry for the long-ass post.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40643
  • There is no ideology in the grocery store.
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2023, 11:07:32 AM »
Good thread.

Gym Rat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14415
  • Hail, Hail, Hail & Kill!
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2023, 11:18:25 AM »
ie...

Libturdz are braindead...

Dalnet

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1698
  • Getbig!
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2023, 11:37:20 AM »
Wonderful post. The long march through the institutions. Horkheimer and his ilk were allowed to run amok in the west at places like Columbia University. His framework was adopted by the likes of Eisenhower for denazification policies in Western Germany that then spread through Europe as a whole. The oppressors became Nordic whites. The Hart celler act in 1965 completed their agenda and the decades that followed allowed all the Marxist subversive professors with their ivory towers to point their fingers. The middle classes didn't give a fk because of cheap labour and distance from its effects so they're just as much yo blame for their I'm alright Jack mentality

Dalnet

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1698
  • Getbig!
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2023, 11:40:18 AM »
Professor Kevin macdonald pointed out that some of the Marxists that fled Europe were so disgusted at how happy everybody was in California they were dismayed at being unable to reshape america into their communist paradise. That it would never work due to how well everybody was even the poor could live comfortably in the economy during the 40s and 50s

mops

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Never make snow angels in a dog park
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2023, 12:51:24 PM »
Wonderful post. The long march through the institutions. Horkheimer and his ilk were allowed to run amok in the west at places like Columbia University. His framework was adopted by the likes of Eisenhower for denazification policies in Western Germany that then spread through Europe as a whole. The oppressors became Nordic whites. The Hart celler act in 1965 completed their agenda and the decades that followed allowed all the Marxist subversive professors with their ivory towers to point their fingers. The middle classes didn't give a fk because of cheap labour and distance from its effects so they're just as much yo blame for their I'm alright Jack mentality

Great point.

Columbia University became a center of American Communism in really significant ways. Figures of the Frankfurt school had a profound influence there.

A very large number of communist texts were translated and disseminated from there.

delon

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2023, 05:40:58 PM »
Interesting read mops

As to speculation as to why it has proven so difficult to promote (or bring about) a revolution in Western Europe my personal belief is the answer is relatively straightforward: capitalism based democratic systems work in providing a decent standard of living for the great majority of people: sure there will be grumbles and flashpoints and economic downturns and intermittent uprisings etc but citizens aren't going to seek large scale revolution in the true sense of the word if they aren't desperate and desperate en masse and for a sustained time without perceived agency

Nevertheless despite its proven efficacy capitalism will always be vulnerable to the promotion of alternative ideologies as it can be kind of ugly at a micro level: selfishness, competitiveness, winners and losers and the like are all built into, and intrinsic to it functioning correctly: and as such when people are presented with a utopian alternate such as socialism it can be very emotionally appealing: especially to younger people and those who haven't experienced the reality of its inherent faults. The other paradoxical issue with capitalism is that by creating wealth it moves a lot of people on the maslow hierarchy and so there is simply more opportunities to be exposed to idealogical flights of fancy given your shelter and nutrition is not a factor

As far as the counter-hegemony goes there is definitely something there: education for eg is a real problem and cannot be unwound quickly. In the US at least there is now a supreme court that can push back on this, but the identity politics tentacles are pretty widespread at this point. One hopes that the common and common-sensed majority will ultimately resist the cancerous spread upon seeing the real life outcomes such as crime and impacts on their own children. Perhaps i am too optimistic i accept that haha



mops

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Never make snow angels in a dog park
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2023, 10:21:49 PM »
Interesting read mops

As to speculation as to why it has proven so difficult to promote (or bring about) a revolution in Western Europe my personal belief is the answer is relatively straightforward: capitalism based democratic systems work in providing a decent standard of living for the great majority of people: sure there will be grumbles and flashpoints and economic downturns and intermittent uprisings etc but citizens aren't going to seek large scale revolution in the true sense of the word if they aren't desperate and desperate en masse and for a sustained time without perceived agency

Interestingly, Marx also mentioned this issue in his book Das Capital. He was a firm critic of the iron law of wages, which states that over time, living wages tend to fall back to the minimum necessary to sustain the life of the worker. Marx argued that increases in competitive wages and absolute living standards were possible as long as labor productivity was growing faster than wages.

His main concern was the rate of exploitation of the worker. The laborer produces more value than the equivalent of their remuneration, and the difference is called surplus value. While workers may indeed improve their living conditions as a result of capitalist exploitation, Marx still believed they should be scandalized by the growing inequality and the rising rate of exploitation through the increase of relative surplus value, meaning an increase in the productive power of workers through technological and organizational innovations.

Nevertheless despite its proven efficacy capitalism will always be vulnerable to the promotion of alternative ideologies as it can be kind of ugly at a micro level: selfishness, competitiveness, winners and losers and the like are all built into, and intrinsic to it functioning correctly: and as such when people are presented with a utopian alternate such as socialism it can be very emotionally appealing: especially to younger people and those who haven't experienced the reality of its inherent faults. The other paradoxical issue with capitalism is that by creating wealth it moves a lot of people on the maslow hierarchy and so there is simply more opportunities to be exposed to idealogical flights of fancy given your shelter and nutrition is not a factor

You make a great point with the pyramid of needs. Inevitably, it leaves people with more time to focus on self-discovery and self-improvement. This kind of behavior can quickly lead them down a rabbit hole. It is no wonder that the prevalence of depression is so high in developed countries.

Marx did not see capitalism as a system driven purely by greed. What compelled capitalists to pursue profits and direct production toward generating profit, rather than simply satisfying needs, was the absolute necessity to reinvest in the latest technologies. Without doing so, they risked being undercut and wiped out by competitors in a hyper-competitive environment shaped by machinery and technological change.

As Ludwig von Mises wrote: "Capitalism is essentially a system of mass production for the satisfaction of the needs of the masses. It pours a horn of plenty upon the common man. It has raised the average standard of living to a height never dreamed of in earlier ages. It has made accessible to millions of people enjoyments which a few generations ago were only within the reach of a small élite."

However, I am afraid that the inevitable collapse caused by endless credit expansion is going to be very painful. But I digress.....


As far as the counter-hegemony goes there is definitely something there: education for eg is a real problem and cannot be unwound quickly. In the US at least there is now a supreme court that can push back on this, but the identity politics tentacles are pretty widespread at this point. One hopes that the common and common-sensed majority will ultimately resist the cancerous spread upon seeing the real life outcomes such as crime and impacts on their own children. Perhaps i am too optimistic i accept that haha

;D



Matt

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16693
  • YouTube FitnessByMatt
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2023, 01:10:36 AM »
According to Marx, this struggle must inevitably lead to the final phase of capitalism, setting up the conditions for a proletarian revolution, which would culminate in "communism", the abolition of private property as a mean of production, and replace by cooperative ownership, consequently ending the division of labor, classes and the State.

Except private property doesn't get abolished. Nor is control of it given to the "proletariat". The billionaire class just takes control of all private property under communism, which very much still exists.


Good summary of what's going on. White people need to understand that they are being attacked like this. Yet masses of them still side with leftist garbage ideologies.

They will "get it" when they get replaced by a diversity hire.

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 34143
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2023, 02:03:58 AM »
I don't see capitalism surviving AI, automation and robotics.

mops

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Never make snow angels in a dog park
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2023, 11:17:46 AM »
Explain communism  to me like I'm five:

Misha Gorbachev wearing his "Supreme Council of the Soviet Union" badge on his jacket while rocking a bi-metal rolex datejust.








Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 34143
Re: Is there a silent Revolution happening in the West ?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2023, 01:15:29 AM »
^ The political class had a different set of rules.

Raymondo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7730
  • I spoke at the United Nations
Re: Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?
« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:38:42 AM »
This counter-hegemonic drive, is it supposed to be a conspiracy? Or arising organically?

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 40643
  • There is no ideology in the grocery store.
Re: Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:08:29 PM »
When economic times are difficult people look for alternatives, even bad ones.
This is what's going on now.

mops

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Never make snow angels in a dog park
Re: Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?
« Reply #14 on: Today at 12:22:41 PM »
This counter-hegemonic drive, is it supposed to be a conspiracy? Or arising organically?

Organically but via incremental indoctrination, a process that generally requires at least 1-2 generations before the first results become evident.

Raymondo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7730
  • I spoke at the United Nations
Re: Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?
« Reply #15 on: Today at 12:36:17 PM »
Organically but via incremental indoctrination, a process that generally requires at least 1-2 generations before the first results become evident.

When you say the first results become evident, what does this mean? That the first "socialist" changes to the economic system start creeping in?

If so given that the strongest counter-cultural movement in the West was in the 1960s, shouldn't we have ended up with planned economies by now? Instead one would argue that starting with the early 1980s the West is getting more free market oriented, not less. Moreover the rest of the world joined in... there are what, about 5 communist governments left in the world?

mops

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1648
  • Never make snow angels in a dog park
Re: Is a silent revolution already underway in the West?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:10:56 PM »
When you say the first results become evident, what does this mean? That the first "socialist" changes to the economic system start creeping in?

Im referring to collective beliefs, values, assumptions, and perspectives held by what appears to be a significant portion of modern society.

If so given that the strongest counter-cultural movement in the West was in the 1960s, shouldn't we have ended up with planned economies by now? Instead one would argue that starting with the early 1980s the West is getting more free market oriented, not less. Moreover the rest of the world joined in... there are what, about 5 communist governments left in the world?

In my opinion, the process isn't as straightforward and doesn't need Red Stars or the hammer and sickle displayed everywhere.

With that said, Communism might be a somewhat outdated term.

I mostly use it to transition to the modern the idea of increasingly interventionist governments, characterized by ever-expanding regulations, increased deficit spending and over-bloated administrations (and to give anyone unfamiliar with its historical concepts a sense of what it truly meant).

The end result is, nevertheless, essentially comparable: reject human action and economic calculation and sell a false image of a government that can create wealth at will by issuing more units of fiat currency, which progressively make citizens more dependent on the state, and demand more subsidies paid in the currency the state issues.

A process of control through debt and currency depreciation, paired with the right submissive or victim mindset emphasized above.

Another thing is that all global powers, whether democratic, communist, socialist, or kleptocratic must follow the same supranational rules that govern the system of so called "sovereign" states.