Dorian Yates puts Mike Israetel in his place

[falco]

He once said that Ronnie could have been bigger and better if he went deeper in squats.

[Stephano]

Damn, Dorian looking slim these days. 

[Kwon]

What if there was a Doctor called Mike Palestinatel or Mike Gazatel, would you listen to him?

Or Doctor Amber Heard?

[IroNat]

Hotter than Dutch love.^

[Van_Bilderass]

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/holocaust-denial/leuchter-report/

Treblinka used a lorry to pump in carbon monoxide, much cheaper than buying Zyclon B and Cyanide

After reading "Ordinary men" its clear that a vast majority were shot and buried rather than sent to camps

You may be right but I know many say carbon monoxide is almost impossible to kill humans with. When the war was almost lost one camp dug up something like 100K corpses and then burned them on railroad tracks.

Zyklon B was hardly the only claimed execution method. Electrocution killed many tens of thousands, the floor was lowered and and filled with water and then electricity was applied. Jews were forced to climb trees which were then cut down killing the Jews. Mini atomic bombs were used. You had a cage wit a bear and an eagle; the bear killed and ate the Jew and then the eagle picked the bones. Bent shotguns where the Jews were forced to shoot themselves. Foot pedal operated ice pics coming out of walls. And on and on.

The number of killed in Auschwitz was quietly lowered from 4 million to one in the 90s but the 6 million figure never changed. They cited the population numbers pre- and post war. In Palestine the population censuses say 600K have been killed but do the Jews believe it (based on censuses like the holocaust numbers)? They even say the 70 or 80K named and documented are a wild exaggeration many times over. They didn't bomb Gaza to ruins, it was the Hamas who booby trapped their own houses. There is no starvation in Gaza, all the starved we all have seen pics of they say were suffering from cancer and other diseases. Now they are supplying guns to gangs in Gaza so they can bomb again, which they just did.

I believe a lot of Jews were killed, call it a holocaust if you want. But there's a lot of baloney info also.

I just saw a slightly longer Yates clip on that theme. Even if Dorian is wrong you have to admit he has big balls, it's hurting his business. It can also land you in jail.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DPFrS4ejXZj/

[joswift]

You may be right but I know many say carbon monoxide is almost impossible to kill humans with. When the war was almost lost one camp dug up something like 100K corpses and then burned them on railroad tracks.

Zyklon B was hardly the only claimed execution method. Electrocution killed many tens of thousands, the floor was lowered and and filled with water and then electricity was applied. Jews were forced to climb trees which were then cut down killing the Jews. Mini atomic bombs were used. You had a cage wit a bear and an eagle; the bear killed and ate the Jew and then the eagle picked the bones. Bent shotguns where the Jews were forced to shoot themselves. Foot pedal operated ice pics coming out of walls. And on and on.

The number of killed in Auschwitz was quietly lowered from 4 million to one in the 90s but the 6 million figure never changed. They cited the population numbers pre- and post war. In Palestine the population censuses say 600K have been killed but do the Jews believe it (based on censuses like the holocaust numbers)? They even say the 70 or 80K named and documented are a wild exaggeration many times over. They didn't bomb Gaza to ruins, it was the Hamas who booby trapped their own houses. There is no starvation in Gaza, all the starved we all have seen pics of they say were suffering from cancer and other diseases. Now they are supplying guns to gangs in Gaza so they can bomb again, which they just did.

I believe a lot of Jews were killed, call it a holocaust if you want. But there's a lot of baloney info also.

I just saw a slightly longer Yates clip on that theme. Even if Dorian is wrong you have to admit he has big balls, it's hurting his business. It can also land you in jail.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DPFrS4ejXZj/

No.. that really didnt happen

[AbrahamG]

No.. that really didnt happen

Bummer.

[falco]

You may be right but I know many say carbon monoxide is almost impossible to kill humans with. When the war was almost lost one camp dug up something like 100K corpses and then burned them on railroad tracks.

Zyklon B was hardly the only claimed execution method. Electrocution killed many tens of thousands, the floor was lowered and and filled with water and then electricity was applied. Jews were forced to climb trees which were then cut down killing the Jews. Mini atomic bombs were used. You had a cage wit a bear and an eagle; the bear killed and ate the Jew and then the eagle picked the bones. Bent shotguns where the Jews were forced to shoot themselves. Foot pedal operated ice pics coming out of walls. And on and on.

The number of killed in Auschwitz was quietly lowered from 4 million to one in the 90s but the 6 million figure never changed. They cited the population numbers pre- and post war. In Palestine the population censuses say 600K have been killed but do the Jews believe it (based on censuses like the holocaust numbers)? They even say the 70 or 80K named and documented are a wild exaggeration many times over. They didn't bomb Gaza to ruins, it was the Hamas who booby trapped their own houses. There is no starvation in Gaza, all the starved we all have seen pics of they say were suffering from cancer and other diseases. Now they are supplying guns to gangs in Gaza so they can bomb again, which they just did.

I believe a lot of Jews were killed, call it a holocaust if you want. But there's a lot of baloney info also.

I just saw a slightly longer Yates clip on that theme. Even if Dorian is wrong you have to admit he has big balls, it's hurting his business. It can also land you in jail.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DPFrS4ejXZj/

You don't actually believe that right? Obviously you never fell trees down, and how about the bears and eagles?? LMAO!! Wouldn't it be more easy to use pigs? It was sausage land after all..

[Methyl m1ke]

You may be right but I know many say carbon monoxide is almost impossible to kill humans with. When the war was almost lost one camp dug up something like 100K corpses and then burned them on railroad tracks.

Zyklon B was hardly the only claimed execution method. Electrocution killed many tens of thousands, the floor was lowered and and filled with water and then electricity was applied. Jews were forced to climb trees which were then cut down killing the Jews. Mini atomic bombs were used. You had a cage wit a bear and an eagle; the bear killed and ate the Jew and then the eagle picked the bones. Bent shotguns where the Jews were forced to shoot themselves. Foot pedal operated ice pics coming out of walls. And on and on.

The number of killed in Auschwitz was quietly lowered from 4 million to one in the 90s but the 6 million figure never changed. They cited the population numbers pre- and post war. In Palestine the population censuses say 600K have been killed but do the Jews believe it (based on censuses like the holocaust numbers)? They even say the 70 or 80K named and documented are a wild exaggeration many times over. They didn't bomb Gaza to ruins, it was the Hamas who booby trapped their own houses. There is no starvation in Gaza, all the starved we all have seen pics of they say were suffering from cancer and other diseases. Now they are supplying guns to gangs in Gaza so they can bomb again, which they just did.

I believe a lot of Jews were killed, call it a holocaust if you want. But there's a lot of baloney info also.

I just saw a slightly longer Yates clip on that theme. Even if Dorian is wrong you have to admit he has big balls, it's hurting his business. It can also land you in jail.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DPFrS4ejXZj/

The six million number comes from some retarded spell in the Bible that some powerful Jews think will summon their Messiah. You should know this Van...

[falco]

The six million number comes from some retarded spell in the Bible that some powerful Jews think will summon their Messiah. You should know this Van...

I remember when i was a kid, that was taught at school that the number of victims of the holocaust was about 300-400 thousand deaths. Decades after, the 6 million number appeared mainstream.

[Van_Bilderass]

You don't actually believe that right? Obviously you never fell trees down, and how about the bears and eagles?? LMAO!! Wouldn't it be more easy to use pigs? It was sausage land after all..

No it was sarcasm and I assumed it would be fairly obvious. Just saying many stories were taken at face value because propaganda is important to makr up about your enemies. Israel and Netanyahu still say beheadedd and oven roasted babies and mass rapes occurred on Oct 7 when they have proven to be lies. The attackers used Go-Pro cameras so should be easy to prove. There are videos of anal gang raped by IDF though.

I remember when i was a kid, that was taught at school that the number of victims of the holocaust was about 300-400 thousand deaths. Decades after, the 6 million number appeared mainstream.

The mythical and sacred number was being promulgated decades before WWIII. "SIX MILLION WILL PERISH." Other researchers say the exact number isn't what's important , and sure, that's a way to look at it. But the thing is "we" aren't allowed to debate it. Also, one day an Austrian watercolor painter said Jews were the enemy for no reason at all and the Germans were like, sounds great, let's do it! A lottle bit pf sarcasm on my part there. Of course Hitler viewed the Jews as enemies, and some rabbis said he was a genius for realising it. I'm not one who advocates mass killing of groups of people, just to be clear. But Israelis are doing it thenselves, after lecturing whites how wrong it id to kill "innocents." But Palestinian babies will grow up to be enemies so they are a legitimate targets they say.

[Griffith]

He once said that Ronnie could have been bigger and better if he went deeper in squats.

He probably wouldn't be too impressed with Lee Haney and Phil Heath's quarter rep squats, even though their quads look infinitely better than his own.

'Full range of motion' is a cult.

[NaturalWonder83]

He probably wouldn't be too impressed with Lee Haney and Phil Heath's quarter rep squats, even though their quads look infinitely better than his own.

'Full range of motion' is a cult.

It's indeed a cult. Have you ever seen Eric Janicki doing leg press? His legs are pretty much behind his head at the bottom. 

Whatever study that "science based lifters" want to promote this week, they will have a convenient program to sell along with it.

Lifting is simple. But simple doesn't sell countless innerations of programs, calorie trackers, and Apps. This is where science based full range of motion lifting comes in.

[Van_Bilderass]

[BayGBM]

What exactly is Mike's "career"?  Does he have an employer? Is he self employed?  Is he a coach/guru?

[Kwon]

What exactly is Mike's "career"?  Does he have an employer? Is he self employed?  Is he a coach/guru?

Michael John Mentzer was an American IFBB professional bodybuilder, businessman, and author.

[BayGBM]

Michael John Mentzer was an American IFBB professional bodybuilder, businessman, and author.

I meant Israetel.

[Kwon]

I meant Israetel.

He has a youtube-channel

[BB]

What exactly is Mike's "career"?  Does he have an employer? Is he self employed?  Is he a coach/guru?

Mike was Powerlifting USA magazine's nutrition guy for a while. After they folded, he jumped over to Chad Wesley Smith's Juggernaut Training Systems. He handled nutrition for them, especially when they were trying to get into the MMA market.

Juggernaut and him split up, and he becomes the face of Nick Smith's Renaissance Periodization more actively. There he finds big success. Not sure what the split is like, but he must get a piece of the youtube, books, and personal training profits. It's grown into a pretty big company that way.

Mike back in the day -

.

[Vince B]

Judging the guy on the whole of his contributions, I think Isratel has been net-positive for the stuff we all like (lifting, building muscle, etc....).

Lately, a lot of content has become honey for catching flies on the youtube alogorithym, which I find insufferable (his views on AI, or psychology, for example, come across as if being authoritative, when he is not an authority on the topic). I could live without another critique of another lifter's technique as well (does nothing to advance the field).

He did popularize some interesting heuristics (maximum adaptable volume, etc...) that I think have value, if only as heuristics (I actually like heuristics in lifting, since it's literally taking mean results from studies and trying to apply them to an N=1 situations ,where a heuristic and testing it is the best one can hope for as one learns their body. Which is what we've all done here).

Still, there he's polarizing and his contributions are more for the hoi polloi. One either tires of the rhetoric and finds themself more in the "so, just lift hard and that's it? Christ, shut up man!" camp (which is ridiculously true). Or, you find yourself seeking more informed voices (I happen to like Pelland, Trexler, Helms, in these regards, who try a bit harder to add something sensical to the average lifters lifestyle).

Helms & Trexler, for me in particular, do a good job of prioritizing the effect-sizes of hypertrophy and strength tactics. Rather than youtubing their way through whatever trends, they stick to reminding folks about what really works, and how do avoid getting lost in the  weeds of trends that don't create a meaningful effect size on hypertrophy or strength for the average lifter to care (even if a study shows "statistical significance").

Holy shit surprise summary for all this bullshit - design your training so that you're doing enough sets for the muscles you want to grow, train really hard when you do those sets, track your progress to ensure you're progressively overloading (by adding a rep or weight or even eventually a set). That's it. The rest is nuanced shit we all monkey around with when we get bored. That "when we get bored" mentality is what's spawned the entire social media universe; the fact that man is mostly powerless to resist the Novelty Bias and the Recency Bias.

As for Lyle, I think he's had some net positives too. But I find his meanderings to be insufferable; I just can't listen to 40 minutes of him attacking someone/thing, to listen for that nugget of insight (and I know its there...I just can't bring myself emotionally to listen to a rant. And yes, I realize the irony that my posts on getbig are long and come across as rants).

This is the best comment in this thread. I used to post on Lyle McDonald's site 25 or so years ago. I posted my theory of hypertrophy there but he refused to have a debate with me so I stopped posting there. I don't consider him an authority on hypertrophy. He got worse results than Dr Mike and ended up doing bike riding competitively.

I consider Dr Mike Israetel a world authority on hypertrophy. He knows the literature and posts clearly about training and the science behind it. I accept that his PhD thesis is under par but so what he knows his stuff. Dr Brad Schoenfeld is an accepted authority on hypertrophy but I don't consider that he is. Yes, he knows the literature but hasn't a clue about getting bigger himself or what the huge bodybuilders are doing because they haven't been studied. Dr Mike has a decent physique but like most bodybuilders considers himself better than he actually is. I hope he gets an authentic PhD from a top university in exercise science and get on with his site.

[AbrahamG]

This is the best comment in this thread. I used to post on Lyle McDonald's site 25 or so years ago. I posted my theory of hypertrophy there but he refused to have a debate with me so I stopped posting there. I don't consider him an authority on hypertrophy. He got worse results than Dr Mike and ended up doing bike riding competitively.

I consider Dr Mike Israetel a world authority on hypertrophy. He knows the literature and posts clearly about training and the science behind it. I accept that his PhD thesis is under par but so what he knows his stuff. Dr Brad Schoenfeld is an accepted authority on hypertrophy but I don't consider that he is. Yes, he knows the literature but hasn't a clue about getting bigger himself or what the huge bodybuilders are doing because they haven't been studied. Dr Mike has a decent physique but like most bodybuilders considers himself better than he actually is. I hope he gets an authentic PhD from a top university in exercise science and get on with his site.

Have you outlined the hypertrophy regimen you use for your decrepit old cock so you're still able to peep and tom til completion?

[Van_Bilderass]

This is the best comment in this thread. I used to post on Lyle McDonald's site 25 or so years ago. I posted my theory of hypertrophy there but he refused to have a debate with me so I stopped posting there. I don't consider him an authority on hypertrophy. He got worse results than Dr Mike and ended up doing bike riding competitively.

I consider Dr Mike Israetel a world authority on hypertrophy. He knows the literature and posts clearly about training and the science behind it. I accept that his PhD thesis is under par but so what he knows his stuff. Dr Brad Schoenfeld is an accepted authority on hypertrophy but I don't consider that he is. Yes, he knows the literature but hasn't a clue about getting bigger himself or what the huge bodybuilders are doing because they haven't been studied. Dr Mike has a decent physique but like most bodybuilders considers himself better than he actually is. I hope he gets an authentic PhD from a top university in exercise science and get on with his site.

Has anyone been able to do a lengthy debate with you? In my non-expert opinion it's hard to know what your "theory" actually is.  I know many have had the same issue with you here.

I consider Lyle a true expert in this sphere, has been hard for me to find fault in basically anything of his. His lack of personal bodybuilding achievement can be seen as a fault. I don't think he took up running. Though I could be mistaken. I know he took up ice skating pretty seriously, the kind where you skate in a circle. The way he looks now makes me think he's on HRT but could be wrong.

I will say "reps is reserve" is mostly a very stupid approach, simply because it's almost impossible to know, especially for newer lifters. Train to actual failure where you know it was true "failure." If it means training less then do that. Though there are always exceptions to every "rule."

https://www.instagram.com/p/DQRdi4MjKFL/

[Vince B]

Has anyone been able to do a lengthy debate with you? In my non-expert opinion it's hard to know what your "theory" actually is.  I know many have had the same issue with you here.

I consider Lyle a true expert in this sphere, has been hard for me to find fault in basically anything of his. His lack of personal bodybuilding achievement can be seen as a fault. I don't think he took up running. Though I could be mistaken. I know he took up ice skating pretty seriously, the kind where you skate in a circle. The way he looks now makes me think he's on HRT but could be wrong.

I will say "reps is reserve" is mostly a very stupid approach, simply because it's almost impossible to know, especially for newer lifters.

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

[beakdoctor]

Fuck Dr. Mike. I say we get a team of Crack Getbiggers together and go kick the ever loving shit out of him. He talked shit about Mike Mentzer FFS! Im not going to stand for it! Who's with me?

Royalty? Where you at? Let's goooooooo!

[BB]

Has Mike done anything in powerlifting? No, Blaha was stronger at an older and lighter bodyweight.

Has he coached any high level guys to much better placings? Can't think of any.

Has he won anything or placed high in any muscular endeavor? No.