Why steroid use is cheating

[Dnizneer]

Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?

2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?

3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is  murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.

4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.

5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.

Smoke a joint and chill man.

[OneBigMan]

The debate about whether steroid use is cheating is very old. Steroids gained a bad reputation when the very dirty big secret was revealed in the National Football League and the Olympics a long time ago. Steroid use also came under intense scrutiny when Ben Johnson got caught and when people started these rumors about Florence Griffith-Joyner that were unproven. The media tried to ask the governor of California some revealing questions way back when he broke into Hollywood after 1980. I don't have to waste time and mention the controversial issues and the problems that steroid use has caused in the Major Leagues.

I don't believe steroid use is cheating in professional bodybuilding because the whole concept is about building as much muscle as you can to present a better physique than your opponents on stage. The same goes for professional wrestlers because they are in a industry that quietly promotes steroid use and that is obvious since they have bodies that are similar to powerlifters, football players, and also some bodybuilders. 

[Adam Empire]

Howard, you seem like a nice guy. Certainly one with a strong sense of morality, and like Diogenes with his lantern looking for an honest man, you are going to be continually disappointed if you look for it in bodybuilding. You gotta stop doing this to yourself every month or so. Relax. Sit on the deck. Take the dogs for a run, etc.

Well put.  And I've said it before...  Howie, are you able to start a thread in under 4 paragraphs?

[Captain Equipoise]

I don't believe steroid use is cheating in professional bodybuilding because the whole concept is about building as much muscle as you can to present a better physique than your opponents on stage. The same goes for professional wrestlers because they are in a industry that quietly promotes steroid use and that is obvious since they have bodies that are similar to powerlifters, football players, and also some bodybuilders. 

Probably the best retort I've read  in regards to steroids and cheating in the field of bodybuilding, bravo!

[HowieW]

Probably the best retort I've read  in regards to steroids and cheating in the field of bodybuilding, bravo!

A couple problems with this however:
1. In this country to use roids and related drugs is for the most part, ILLEGAL. However since the use is so common one must use to compete on the same level . Thus, one is REQUIRED  to break the law to compete and stand a chance of winning.
 ::)How can a sport REQUIRE its athletes to BREAK the federal drug laws to compete??

2. There is a 40 plus page section on the IFBB site that states it is against the rules.
If they want the rule on the books they need to enforce it. Or, they can simply state they have no drug policy and openly allow it. Anything other than this is inconsistant and unethical. Think that is no big deal? Ask scape goats like Shawn Ray, Nasser and Jay (Jay beat the charges in court) about how the IFBB uses the "random " drug test to nail certain pros for whatever reason and PR. Look the negative press Barry Bonds now gets and then tell me roids are no big deal and help bodybuilding as a sport??
The sport has such a drug stigma now, it is ruined in terms of TV contracts which is the big $$$$...unless they take drastic steps to change of course.

I would advise some here to look at  how others outside of bodybuilding think of roid use and then you can understand the issue.Bodybuilding does not operate in a vacuum.

[Thin Lizzy]

Well my point was that steroids dont matter. The top guys would STILL be the top guys in bodybuilding, even without steroids bc they have the BEST GENETICS in the world for building muscle and staying lean. Anyone else agree?

Disagree

Your argument assumes that there aren't guys out there with amazing genetics who don't compete because of the crazy amount of drugs one has to take.

[Man of Steel]

Is steriod use cheating?  Is it illegal?  Is it unethical?


Yes.   Yes.   Depends.


BB is not a sport...it's an "underground" cultish physique contest that has evolved decade over decade and will continue to evolve in the years to come.   It will never gain mainstream coverage due to its cult status...it's always had a cult status because most people think it's ridiculous; hence, it maintains a small cultish following...always has and always will.  The idea that it will be included in the Olympics is ridiculous...the only thing bb will ever share with the Olympics is the "Olympi" in Mr. Olympia.   


Unfortunately, in order to maintain even the small cult following in bb the illegal drugs are necessity in order to keep fan attention.   After you've seen 300lb ripped physiques everything smaller and more aesthetic kinda falls flat....and even the smaller aesthetic physiques require the drugs to build and maintain.   From Zane to Coleman they all used and bbs will continue to use.  Make steriods completely inaccessible and bb will quickly die and become a mere memory.     

[Captain Equipoise]

Two things to point out;

1) Steroids and other Enhancement drugs are not ilegal everywhere in the world, there are plenty of countries where you can walk into a pharmacy and purchase anything and everything. It's all because of professional sports (which I think is a joke) and the United States' obsession with it.

2) I look at professional competitive bodybuilding like a beauty pageant (Ms.America for instance) just without the talent part (and the hot girls) that's basically what it boils down to, people on stage comparing their physiques.

[Adam Empire]

And you really believe Skip LaCour is natural???

I doubt it King.

[Adam Empire]

1) to cover the ass. federal gov will come in and eliminate the industry. the ifbb will be no more. not to forget it is a crime and the law prohibit the use of most hormones with out a prescription. it is a felony in most cases and the head of the snake will be cut which means old men will have to do time in. it is hard to explain in few sentences and i will elaborate on it when "gh15 speaking is out". if and when that is!

the other 4 points will also be adressed. everything will be clear as said as it is with no bullshit including specific names. the moment any one no matter who try to mess with the date by sending bugs/viruses and sush this data will become national tv material up and ready for the murderer trial. so who ever need be warned! there is your warning.

GH15, this post makes me a bit curious...  What do you mean by "mess with the date by sending bugs/viruses and sush"?  Can you explain what you meant in the 2nd paragraph a bit more?  Thanks.

[onlyme]

Actually I don't steroid use is cheating either in competitive BB.  Since everyone does it how can it be cheating.  Cheating is when you do something to gain an advantage that is not allowed and not done by others.  Steroids are accepted in the NPC and IFBB.  So it can't be cheating just like wearing a suit in a powerlifting meet is not cheating.  In real life it is cheating since these guys could NOT achieve what they have without the use of roids and GH, but in the life they chose they are fine.

[NCNPC29]

I do- if you've ever had a conversation with him, you see skip is one of the most intense people on the planet.  He was the top natural in the world, and IMO, if he was going to use gear, he would have gone all out and been one of the top gear users.

there is no halfway for him.  ALl things equal, he'd bury cutler. and I'm a cutler fan.

"In your opinion"..that's all it is... because he's and intense guy it solidifies that he never touched any pharmaceuticals..lololol ..Christ..I'll go with you on the androgen's and the anabolics but if you think he never touched clen, GH or Slin you really are a momo....and you know Skip would bury Cutler if they both were completely natural their whole life? how do you know this? ohhh you must have had a conversation with Jay and he must have been really "not-intense" on the phone.... and you are such a Cutler fan and wanted him to post on this board that you show it by showing a close up of his shoulder on another thread and title it "Needlin around with Jay Cutler"... 

[MikeThaMachine]

I only think it's cheating (just cause i wouldn't risk it) when somone takes it to the point that they almost die or do die, now not to say it in a joking way but it's not fair when somone is willing to risk death in order to look the best cause they are crazy and that means you must be just as crazy to be the best and i don't think that should be.

[240 is Back]

I believe Skip has slimmed down some for modeling and consulting.  He still retains his unreal conditioning and more size than the average mortal.  Most ppl on gear lose that conditioning fairly quick when they go OFF, don't they?  www.skiplacour.com

[HowieW]

Actually I don't steroid use is cheating either in competitive BB.  Since everyone does it how can it be cheating.  Cheating is when you do something to gain an advantage that is not allowed and not done by others.  Steroids are accepted in the NPC and IFBB.  So it can't be cheating just like wearing a suit in a powerlifting meet is not cheating.  In real life it is cheating since these guys could NOT achieve what they have without the use of roids and GH, but in the life they chose they are fine.

Only me, I would agree with you on this BUT, one key issue is at stake here, the LEGAL issue as it is exists now in the USA where most of the biggest show take place.
My main conern is that to compete on a level playing field, as a high level bodybuilder , one is required to break the law? true?

[NCNPC29]

There are so many factors involved in that i.e. the genetic make up of the individual, the compounds used etc.  it's an impossible question to answer with any real degree of certainty. The people you are referring to are the idiot lat syndrome imaginary suit case carrying douches you see in the gym. They go on a gram or two of test, throw in some Anadrol a little deca for 12 weeks and think they actually accumulated real muscle. They come off and drop 25lbs of water and look like the same bag of crap as they did before hand. These are also the same guys that have no idea what it's really like to diet year round and train balls to the wall year round. So here is Skip. The guys diet and training is perfect and he's been dedicated to it for years. When you throw in clen and GH etc. you're not going to have these dramatic changes in your physique and what you gain has way more of a chance of being quality muscle than being a bloated pig for two months. So to answer you question yes and no. IMO I'm sorry but you are only natural if you have never touched any of these things. I firmly believe he has had his share of GH and Clen. Am I baggin on him for this? No. Total respect for the guy. What he has done and the way he has done it will keep his physique looking the same for a long time. Perfect example..Branch Warren. I've seen him in his "off/bridge" time and he doesn't look like the same guy. trust me.

[HowieW]

There are so many factors involved in that i.e. the genetic make up of the individual, the compounds used etc.  it's an impossible question to answer with any real degree of certainty. The people you are referring to are the idiot lat syndrome imaginary suit case carrying douches you see in the gym. They go on a gram or two of test, throw in some Anadrol a little deca for 12 weeks and think they actually accumulated real muscle. They come off and drop 25lbs of water and look like the same bag of crap as they did before hand. These are also the same guys that have no idea what it's really like to diet year round and train balls to the wall year round. So here is Skip. The guys diet and training is perfect and he's been dedicated to it for years. When you throw in clen and GH etc. you're not going to have these dramatic changes in your physique and what you gain has way more of a chance of being quality muscle than being a bloated pig for two months. So to answer you question yes and no. IMO I'm sorry but you are only natural if you have never touched any of these things. I firmly believe he has had his share of GH and Clen. Am I baggin on him for this? No. Total respect for the guy. What he has done and the way he has done it will keep his physique looking the same for a long time. Perfect example..Branch Warren. I've seen him in his "off/bridge" time and he doesn't look like the same guy. trust me.

Great post here. I agree and in Skip's case after all the drug tests he has passed over the years, it is clear that the vast majority (if not all ) of Skip's physique is the result of great genetics and hard training.
Howard

[MikeThaMachine]

Great post here. I agree and in Skip's case after all the drug tests he has passed over the years, it is clear that the vast majority (if not all ) of Skip's physique is the result of great genetics and hard training.
Howard

What are your thoughts on bonds? he has never failed a test either






I am a bonds fan by the way

[bic_staedtler]

Is steriod use cheating?  Is it illegal?  Is it unethical?


Yes.   Yes.   Depends.


BB is not a sport...it's an "underground" cultish physique contest that has evolved decade over decade and will continue to evolve in the years to come.   It will never gain mainstream coverage due to its cult status...it's always had a cult status because most people think it's ridiculous; hence, it maintains a small cultish following...always has and always will.  The idea that it will be included in the Olympics is ridiculous...the only thing bb will ever share with the Olympics is the "Olympi" in Mr. Olympia.   


Unfortunately, in order to maintain even the small cult following in bb the illegal drugs are necessity in order to keep fan attention.   After you've seen 300lb ripped physiques everything smaller and more aesthetic kinda falls flat....and even the smaller aesthetic physiques require the drugs to build and maintain.   From Zane to Coleman they all used and bbs will continue to use.  Make steriods completely inaccessible and bb will quickly die and become a mere memory.     

...man there's some GREAT points in this paragraph....on a pretty much bashed question.  I'm so tired of it, but this paragraph states the rock bottom truths. 

The fact that even when the 'sport' was at it's aesthetic highpoint, drugs were still and issue.  There ya go.

As far as Skip and his natural ilk, who gives a crap. He can't prove it, I don't care.

BUT...this previous weekend I met a dude who claimed he was natural his whole training life (some 19 years training) and he looked AMAZING....no bloat, tight midsection, good lines....and walked away with 1st in his class (light middleweight!) AND the overall!...it was a provincial show, no drug tests.  If it's true, that dude just smacked the best the province could shell out, drugs and all, weighing UNDER 175!..pretty good for an amateur.  So I have new faith!

[HowieW]

What are your thoughts on bonds? he has never failed a test either






I am a bonds fan by the way

On 1st off Bonds did admit he may have used some kind of drugs but "was not aware of it" , he was not tsted for roids in much of his time playing baseball . Plus unlike Skip, Barry made incredible gains AFTER he was a full grown successful athlete. 90% of Bonds  success is all Barry the last 10 %???
Plus he has already been tried and found guilty by the sports media and fans outside of San Fran, thus he has bigger problems than this board LOL.

The senate comm. will have the last say anyway .

[MikeThaMachine]

7 time MVP and numerous records................. . steroids don't give you that, that's all skill and hard work

[HowieW]

7 time MVP and numerous records................. . steroids don't give you that, that's all skill and hard work

No question Barry Bonds has an incredible record, even if he never broke any HR records he would still be a hall of famer. Sadly he will be more remembered for the juice scandel and never should have gone down that road.
Plus with the scadel the Coperstown is in jeopordy

[MikeThaMachine]

No question Barry Bonds has an incredible record, even if he never broke any HR records he would still be a hall of famer. Sadly he will be more remembered for the juice scandel and never should have gone down that road.
Plus with the scadel the Coperstown is in jeopordy

Well i stick by him no matter what He has always been one of my favorite baseball players and i won't be one of those who remembers him for the shit that has happened off the field.


Same with Cormier

[LuciusFox]

Many feel that steroid is just a part of the bodybuilding game. Since all are doing it, nobody is cheating, etc. I ask the following questions then as food for thought:
1. If is NOT cheating how come the IFBB in both pro and amatuer rules pages has over 40 pages of rules that say these drugs are NOT allowed?

2. If is not cheating how come one can not freely admit their use in public?
If you have to sneak and lie about somehing, you most likely know it is wrong on some level or you would admit it. Hmmm, why do they think having an affair is considered CHEATING on your spouse?

3. Some contend that steroid and drug use is no more different than various rule changes. This logic is flawed, when a sport changes a rule it is open and everyone is on the same level. With drugs it is  murky behind the scenes issue where some are in the loop on various levels.

4. Many in bodybuilding are so used to the drugs as the worst kept secret, we forget how many fans in other sports react when they find out. Barry Bonds is booed each time he comes to bat despite being a great hitter. He is on the verge of breaking a chersihed record yet few respect him or what he has done.
Wan bodybuilding to start gaining public recognition,? Get the drugs out first.

5. If the sport of bodybuilding can only survive with illegal drug use, is it wrth saving as is?
The only way for it NOT to be cheating is to change the current drug laws, be open and honest and then change the rules allowing all bodybuilders to use them on the pro and amatuer level.

    No.

[Captain Equipoise]

    No.

Hahah..racking up the posts huh ?