question about Dorains look

[CT]

What are plasma extenders

Without going into toomuch details, they are substances that atract water where it goes. Plasma expanders used by some bodybuilders end up in the bloodstream and muscle, so they pull water out of the subcutaneous (under the skin) compartment and into the bloodstream and/or muscle. This has two "cosmetic" effects: 1) it removes water from under the skin, giving a dryer look 2) it increases blood volume so vascularity is increased.

It works great *IN THEORY* but in reality proper timing is extremely difficult to achieve, not to mention that there are some risks involved, especially with bodybuilders using a lot of anabolic steroids which increase blood thickness (by increasing hematocrit level, much like EPO does) . Super thick blood increases the risk of heart problems (since the heart has to pump extra hard to get the blood moving). Several guys (your hero Arnold S. was actually one of the first to have this done) have/had blood removed periodically to avoid complications due to thick blood. A lot of modern bodybuilders "give blood" every 2-3 months to lower their hematocrit level (the hematocrit level refers to the percentage of red blood cells vs. plasma blood volume... the more red blood cells you have, the thicker is your blood).

Cyclists are tested for hematocrit levels before most big races... first to try to detect possible blood doping and/or EPO use, but also because an excessively high hematocrit level (over 45-50%) is very dangerous and could lead to heart problems during the race, especially as the athlete et dehydrated (reducing blood plama level, thus further thickening the blood). A cyclist who is found to have high hematocrit levels before a race, even if there is no trace of EPO doping cannot participate in the race. That's what happened to Canadian cyclist Genevieve Jeanson last year. For 2 races her hematocrit levels were too high and she was prohibited from racing. Normally this would indicate EPO doping, but EPO is hard to detect and she wasn't tested positive for it (although a doctor admitted to prescribing and administrating some to her) so she wasn't technically tested positive, just prevented from racing. Of course, afterwards she refused being tested once so that pretty much killed her career ... she wasn't tested positive, but the suspicions killed her reputation.

Hope this helps.

[Stavios]

Alexxx use plasma expanders to achieve his grainy

[LuciusFox]

Without going into toomuch details, they are substances that atract water where it goes. Plasma expanders used by some bodybuilders end up in the bloodstream and muscle, so they pull water out of the subcutaneous (under the skin) compartment and into the bloodstream and/or muscle. This has two "cosmetic" effects: 1) it removes water from under the skin, giving a dryer look 2) it increases blood volume so vascularity is increased.

It works great *IN THEORY* but in reality proper timing is extremely difficult to achieve, not to mention that there are some risks involved, especially with bodybuilders using a lot of anabolic steroids which increase blood thickness (by increasing hematocrit level, much like EPO does) . Super thick blood increases the risk of heart problems (since the heart has to pump extra hard to get the blood moving). Several guys (your hero Arnold S. was actually one of the first to have this done) have/had blood removed periodically to avoid complications due to thick blood. A lot of modern bodybuilders "give blood" every 2-3 months to lower their hematocrit level (the hematocrit level refers to the percentage of red blood cells vs. plasma blood volume... the more red blood cells you have, the thicker is your blood).

Cyclists are tested for hematocrit levels before most big races... first to try to detect possible blood doping and/or EPO use, but also because an excessively high hematocrit level (over 45-50%) is very dangerous and could lead to heart problems during the race, especially as the athlete et dehydrated (reducing blood plama level, thus further thickening the blood). A cyclist who is found to have high hematocrit levels before a race, even if there is no trace of EPO doping cannot participate in the race. That's what happened to Canadian cyclist Genevieve Jeanson last year. For 2 races her hematocrit levels were too high and she was prohibited from racing. Normally this would indicate EPO doping, but EPO is hard to detect and she wasn't tested positive for it (although a doctor admitted to prescribing and administrating some to her) so she wasn't technically tested positive, just prevented from racing. Of course, afterwards she refused being tested once so that pretty much killed her career ... she wasn't tested positive, but the suspicions killed her reputation.

Hope this helps.

 Great post; very informative! We need more like it here on getbig.

[alexxx]

So why does Levrone or Shawn care about plasma expanders? I mean these guys are far superior to Chad's athletes..

[LuciusFox]

So why does Levrone or Shawn care about plasma expanders? I mean these guys are far superior to Chad's athletes..

  Which of Chad's athletes are you referring to?

[alexxx]

  Which of Chad's athletes are you referring to?

I don't know..

[Stavios]

Great post; very informative! We need more like it here on getbig.

CT doesn't post much cause you boy alexxx make him go with his stupid "alexxx owning CT" thread  

[CT]

Great post; very informative! We need more like it here on getbig.

BTW, as it was mentionned earlier, one of the other problems with plasma epanders, and the reason why it's a very hit and miss strategy, is that it attract water where it goes... yes it can pull water from beneath the skin and into the bloodstream, but it can also attract water stored in the muscles into the bloodstream. This might improve vascularity but will also flatten out the physique. There is a very short window where the effect is positive, but it quickly goes away. This is why it's fallen out of favor of most pros.

On a side note, a similar (albeit less drastic) effect can be obtained by using glycerol/glycerin (which can be bought for something like 5$ in most drug stores) as it tends to bring water into the muscles. This is why it's used by endurance athletes (several nutritional products targeting hydration include glycerol) as it prevents cramping and helps keep the muscles hydrated.

[CT]

So why does Levrone or Shawn care about plasma expanders? I mean these guys are far superior to Chad's athletes..

Well Chad doesn't even use plasma expanders anymore. He briefly experimented with them (as this Milos) but as I mentionned since it's so "hit & miss" they stopped using it.

[LuciusFox]

I don't know..

  You better watch it, Alexxx


 CT: Are you a biologist or chemist or something?

[gracie bjj]

i read that somewhere also,kevin walked away from the confrontation,maybe kevin just didnt want no trouble,im pretty sure he wasnt intimidated,kevins a big boy and im not saying that makes him tough or a great fighter but im sure he can hold his own

[LuciusFox]

i read that somewhere also,kevin walked away from the confrontation,maybe kevin just didnt want no trouble,im pretty sure he wasnt intimidated,kevins a big boy and im not saying that makes him tough or a great fighter but im sure he can hold his own

  It's obvious Kevin was scared. Esiclene arms do not a tough man make.

[benchthis]

bump

[CT]

  You better watch it, Alexxx


 CT: Are you a biologist or chemist or something?

No, only have a masters in exercise physiology. However I'm the director of the anti-doping comittee for the Quebec Bodybuilding Federation. I'm also heavily involved with athletes and bodybuilders. So it's kinda my responsability to learn as much as possible about what "chemical" strategy are being used.

[CT]

CT doesn't post much cause you boy alexxx make him go with his stupid "alexxx owning CT" thread 

Actually Alexxx doesn't bother me. The only bad thing I could say about him is that he's arrogant, but I'm arrogant too so critisizing him for that would be kinda like the pot calling the kettle black! Plus, it has always been my belief that to be successful one has to be somewhat arrogant/cocky.

While I don't always like how he carries himself on these forums, I must say that in the last few weeks I kinda learned to appreciate him a bit more because, just like me, he does seem to have a genuine interest and respect for the history of bodybuilding.

I personally have a great collection of courses and texts from and about past greats like Chuck Sipes, Vince Gironda, Larry Scott, Frank Zane and the likes.

[LuciusFox]

No, only have a masters in exercise physiology. However I'm the director of the anti-doping comittee for the Quebec Bodybuilding Federation. I'm also heavily involved with athletes and bodybuilders. So it's kinda my responsability to learn as much as possible about what "chemical" strategy are being used.

  That's interesting because most don't seem to be that well informed about the chemical aspects of the sport. Even the "gurus" often lack formal education on the subject.

[Ex Coelis]

Dorian's superior conditioning was due in part to the fact thst he didn't have to prepare right up to a contest. whereas some do drastic things to get shape at the last minute, Diesel was ready much before and just had to coast into the contest. That and his supreme calm and confidence - nerves and stress cause water retention. Dorian was unshakeable.

[CT]

  That's interesting because most don't seem to be that well informed about the chemical aspects of the sport. Even the "gurus" often lack formal education on the subject.

Well, someone who normally have the formal educational background to know the chemical nature of the substances involved in bodybuilding normally work for biochem or pharma companies and make big bucks doing so... they rarely have any interest in bodybuilding or engaging in illegal behavior.

Many gurus DO understand how stuff work, not all of them of course, some simply go from hearsay and personal experience. But there are some who actually take the time to do some research.

[CT]

- nerves and stress cause water retention. Dorian was unshakeable.

That's very true... cortisol (the stress hormone) can cause water retention as well as intramuscular glycogen loss. When that happens the muscle becomes flat and you retain water at the same time. That's why some guys attain a super condition once in their lifetime but then are unable to duplicate it... Samir Bannout comes to mind in that regard.

[LuciusFox]

Well, someone who normally have the formal educational background to know the chemical nature of the substances involved in bodybuilding normally work for biochem or pharma companies and make big bucks doing so... they rarely have any interest in bodybuilding or engaging in illegal behavior.

Many gurus DO understand how stuff work, not all of them of course, some simply go from hearsay and personal experience. But there are some who actually take the time to do some research.

  What about the gurus whose athletes have failing kidneys?

[CT]

  What about the gurus whose athletes have failing kidneys?

And that's only one of the problems ... there are many you don't hear about.

I remember reading Quincy Taylor saying how he hated pre gurus because they played with their athlete's lives/well-being while remaining relatively risk-free themselves. He said that the best gurus can indeed help an athlete come in much better shape, but sometimes the cost (I'm not talking money here) is fairly steep.

[LuciusFox]

And that's only one of the problems ... there are many you don't hear about.

I remember reading Quincy Taylor saying how he hated pre gurus because they played with their athlete's lives/well-being while remaining relatively risk-free themselves. He said that the best gurus can indeed help an athlete come in much better shape, but sometimes the cost (I'm not talking money here) is fairly steep.

  It sounds like they just learn through trial and error, and some of them don't even learn from that

[CT]

  It sounds like they just learn through trial and error, and some of them don't even learn from that

Well when the "errors" don't affect you personally, it's harder to learn from them!

[LuciusFox]

Well when the "errors" don't affect you personally, it's harder to learn from them!

  That's true. The fact is that they are not doctors and there aren't any real consquences when they screw up. It doesn't even deter other bodybuilders from paying for their services.

[CT]

  That's true. The fact is that they are not doctors and there aren't any real consquences when they screw up. It doesn't even deter other bodybuilders from paying for their services.

Exactly ... even the best gurus have something like a 75% success rate. Although sometimes athletes hire them only for the last few weeks of their prep and during that time the guru doesn't really have time to learn how the athlete's body will react.

Chad is able to always bring Ronnie in good shape because they've been working together for so long that Chad knows exactly what works for Ronnie.