CLEAN vs. DIRTY BULKING on a cycle- seriously, whats best?

[boonstack]

I am new, and yes I have done significant research online, but i wanted to ask experienced human beings what their take on eating dirty to get tons of calories or eating clean- but lots of it, to gain mass. Pros & cons? I'm a meso, so i do gain weight fairly easily. Just wanted some help. Thank you

[bigjohn_bluesfan]

i think your body type is the most important factor. I gain weight fairly easily too.

But heres my philosophy: My base diet is clean.... in other words about 4 of my meals each day are good clean proteins and brown carbs ( low glycemic) ... this forms the foundation of my mass building...

now: the other 3 meals (total of 7) are usually leftovers, whatevers in the fridge, a splurge of doublecheeseburgers, maybe a whole pizza.... and of course all the protein shakes.... I bulk up well and still dont gain much fat

I eat alot of redmeat too.... I might add that I do 10 min cardio before and after each workout but i dont think that does shit except give me the opportunity to look out over the balcony rails at all the fine ass chicks walking across the gym floor


the idealist will tell you to do everything clean, but I doubt even he does it totally clean, its too hard and you get too freaking hungry

[freeagain]

a clean diet is a f'uckin joke.. its all about calories ... you will get fat if you eat 10,000 calories worth of lettuce leaves CUZ YOU HAVE EATEN 10,000 CALS !

eat junk food .. get the numbers right up ! 

[ZEEK]

I eat whatever I want and dont have a problem.... I dont diet.

and Im way past people that do diet.

[Saskbb]

a clean diet is a f'uckin joke.. its all about calories ... you will get fat if you eat 10,000 calories worth of lettuce leaves CUZ YOU HAVE EATEN 10,000 CALS !

eat junk food .. get the numbers right up ! 

can you actually eat 10,000 cals of lettuce? Would love to see your dump the next day.  MOOOOOOOOO!

[udeluz]

John,
Cardio to look over the rails? Are you at LIFETIME?

[Ledd]

I always eat what I want basically.  I dont have constant cravings for junk food, and when I do I have it in moderation.  I pack a lunch almost everyday which consists of three wheatbread turkey or chicken coldcut sandwiches with 25 grams of protein each.  I pack baked potato chips everyday usually two servings of fresh fruit and yogurt.  I lift in the morning and on those days I tend to eat quite a bit more, typically resulting in a stop at McDonalds for a Double quarter pounder and a diet coke.

[jpeso]

John,
Cardio to look over the rails? Are you at LIFETIME?

Hahahaha, I was thinking the same thing!  I do the same at Lifestyles, and looking over the rail is the best part

[Arnold jr]

I have said this a million times and I'll say it one more time: eat clean, eat often, eat a lot, but eat clean.

Yes, you can pack on some great size by eating junk but it can be done eating clean as well. Ones over-all health should be as big of a concern as anything else and constantly indulging in crap food is not promoting a quality lifestyle. I'm not saying you should never eat a hamburger or pizza but these meals should be limited.

Basing a diet around quality foods is more work then the other option but I can guarantee you that if you do then your results and progress will show it.

[bigjohn_bluesfan]

I have said this a million times and I'll say it one more time: eat clean, eat often, eat a lot, but eat clean.

Yes, you can pack on some great size by eating junk but it can be done eating clean as well. Ones over-all health should be as big of a concern as anything else and constantly indulging in crap food is not promoting a quality lifestyle. I'm not saying you should never eat a hamburger or pizza but these meals should be limited.

Basing a diet around quality foods is more work then the other option but I can guarantee you that if you do then your results and progress will show it.

/\
  The idealist   

[Captain Equipoise]

I like a combination of both.. although lately I've tried to eat less carbs after 8pm and tend to eat heavier and dirtier carb meals towards the morning and aftternoon so I can still burn them off later. My girl prepares my meals twice a week, usually wed. and sat. and they basically consist of : yams, chcken breast, steamed veggies...  grilled fish, yams or rice, veggies.... whole wheat pasta, lean ground beef, veggies.

[Overload]

I have said this a million times and I'll say it one more time: eat clean, eat often, eat a lot, but eat clean.

Yes, you can pack on some great size by eating junk but it can be done eating clean as well. Ones over-all health should be as big of a concern as anything else and constantly indulging in crap food is not promoting a quality lifestyle. I'm not saying you should never eat a hamburger or pizza but these meals should be limited.

Basing a diet around quality foods is more work then the other option but I can guarantee you that if you do then your results and progress will show it.

Good post...Health is a big reason why i always eat clean. every week or two i might hit up McD's or some pizza but other than that i always bulk clean and have seen great results.

 

[Arnold jr]

/\
  The idealist   

Sorry Johnny boy , but this is not idealistic thinking. I am not saying that what I recommend in terms of how one should eat is the easiest way to live, far from it, but with a little self discipline and proper motivation it is easier then one might think. If your goals in this game are important enough to you then it's just that much easier.

[ZEEK]

thats was good Arnold. so true

[FatGuy]

This is a great thread, I can't always eat clean so I feel like sh*t 'cause I don't, good to know that other people out there are in the same boat....

[!@#$%]

Sorry Johnny boy , but this is not idealistic thinking. I am not saying that what I recommend in terms of how one should eat is the easiest way to live, far from it, but with a little self discipline and proper motivation it is easier then one might think. If your goals in this game are important enough to you then it's just that much easier.

I cup of oatmeal has 260 calories and 60 grams of carbohydrates. For a good bulk you are supposed to eat 3 times your body weight in grams of carbs. Have you ever tried to eat over 10 cups of oatmeal in a day. That is a lot of fucking oatmeal.

Protein I have no trouble with, but it is way hard to eat all those carbs.

[ignorance]

extra lean ground beef/ lean ground beef
inside round beef steak
rice
instant oatmeal with protien powder mixed
post workout shake
and subway.

thats bulking baby.

[freeagain]

pizzas
snickers
currys
spag bol
KFC by the truck load
mickey D'S
whole boiled eggs

all washed down with protein shakes.

you can f'uck your oatmeal and brown rice. (well i eat flapjacks, full of sugar and butter)

[ZEEK]

I agree with free.

[Luv2Hurt]

Theres bulking and then there is getting fat.............be aware.

Dont mistake fat for big.  Nothing more pathetic than a fat ass juicer...........whats the point?

[Saskbb]

I have said this a million times and I'll say it one more time: eat clean, eat often, eat a lot, but eat clean.

Yes, you can pack on some great size by eating junk but it can be done eating clean as well. Ones over-all health should be as big of a concern as anything else and constantly indulging in crap food is not promoting a quality lifestyle. I'm not saying you should never eat a hamburger or pizza but these meals should be limited.

Basing a diet around quality foods is more work then the other option but I can guarantee you that if you do then your results and progress will show it.

I agree when I'm bulking 90% of my meals are clean, But I have 2 up cal or cheat days/meals and keep an eye on my bf %.  I use my cardio to keep my fat % under control.    My goal is to add lean muscle mass for a contest not to get fat.  It is a shit load of work to loss the weight for a contest (I'm 8 days out from my next one).

If your going to compete than learning to eat clean is very important.  Most people who don't do contest or can't don't diet correctly.  If you learn to eat clean in the off season than contest prep. is so much easier.

Also it is tuff to turn your body's metabolism around.  It is like a huge ocean liner to does not reaction over night no matter what bullshit some marketing ads or getbig message says.  If your eatting clean 90% of your offseason you will have a metabolism more geared toward contest prep..  16 weeks flights by pretty quick so if you are already pointed in the right direction than is an easier process.

The last 3 weeks of contest prep. is metally tuff to do it correctly so if you have a long history of eatting clean is becomes routine.  I actually love my tuna and oats in the morning. 

Good Luck

PS If you just a gym rat who want to look big eat what ever shit you want.  But if you try to comp. without having a history of eatting clean I know I will be in better condition than you will be!!!!

[!@#$%]

I agree when I'm bulking 90% of my meals are clean, But I have 2 up cal or cheat days/meals and keep an eye on my bf %.  I use my cardio to keep my fat % under control.    My goal is to add lean muscle mass for a contest not to get fat.  It is a shit load of work to loss the weight for a contest (I'm 8 days out from my next one).

If your going to compete than learning to eat clean is very important.  Most people who don't do contest or can't don't diet correctly.  If you learn to eat clean in the off season than contest prep. is so much easier.

Also it is tuff to turn your body's metabolism around.  It is like a huge ocean liner to does not reaction over night no matter what bullshit some marketing ads or getbig message says.  If your eatting clean 90% of your offseason you will have a metabolism more geared toward contest prep..  16 weeks flights by pretty quick so if you are already pointed in the right direction than is an easier process.

The last 3 weeks of contest prep. is metally tuff to do it correctly so if you have a long history of eatting clean is becomes routine.  I actually love my tuna and oats in the morning. 

Good Luck

PS If you just a gym rat who want to look big eat what ever shit you want.  But if you try to comp. without having a history of eatting clean I know I will be in better condition than you will be!!!!

I've read that lowering your calories too much lowers your metabolism. Your body goes into starvation mode and the metabolism slows down to conserve calories. It seems like a high calorie diet would do the opposite, but I've never heard this anywhere.

I agree with most of what you say. A 5000 calorie clean diet is better than a 5000 calorie dirty diet for sure. But is a 2000 calorie clean diet better than a 5000 calorie dirty diet? How can you properly bulk with too few calories? Shouldn't you do your best to eat a clean high calorie diet and when you can't then resort to dirtier foods?

[Saskbb]

I've read that lowering your calories too much lowers your metabolism. Your body goes into starvation mode and the metabolism slows down to conserve calories. It seems like a high calorie diet would do the opposite, but I've never heard this anywhere.

I agree with most of what you say. A 5000 calorie clean diet is better than a 5000 calorie dirty diet for sure. But is a 2000 calorie clean diet better than a 5000 calorie dirty diet? How can you properly bulk with too few calories? Shouldn't you do your best to eat a clean high calorie diet and when you can't then resort to dirtier foods?

were did I say I bulked on 2000 cals, shit I'm cutting this week (one week out) and still eatting 2500 cals.  You can eat 3500 - 4000 clean.  It isn't that difficult. 

[BIGphatBROCK]

i think your body type is the most important factor. I gain weight fairly easily too.

But heres my philosophy: My base diet is clean.... in other words about 4 of my meals each day are good clean proteins and brown carbs ( low glycemic) ... this forms the foundation of my mass building...

now: the other 3 meals (total of 7) are usually leftovers, whatevers in the fridge, a splurge of doublecheeseburgers, maybe a whole pizza.... and of course all the protein shakes.... I bulk up well and still dont gain much fat

I eat alot of redmeat too.... I might add that I do 10 min cardio before and after each workout but i dont think that does shit except give me the opportunity to look out over the balcony rails at all the fine ass chicks walking across the gym floor


the idealist will tell you to do everything clean, but I doubt even he does it totally clean, its too hard and you get too freaking hungry

you just dont have the right goals if you dont eat clean, and you are only making excuses when you claim no one eats totally clean.

[bigjohn_bluesfan]

bitch you dont know anything about my goals.... I didnt tell the guy to go to the pizza buffet everyday.... I just said that some  meals may not be completely clean..... if you saw me you would quickly realize that Im pretty in tune with my dieting