Author Topic: Wing Chun (Read 9451 times)

NPCOK · « **on:** June 01, 2006, 01:23:09 PM »

I have been doing stand up with a guy who's main background is in Wing Chun, but he also does muay tai and kali. My question is: Do you guy's think wing chun is effective in MMA...since it is mainly for actual street fighting. Alot of the stuff you could do not with gloves on, but I think I have learned some good things that some styles don't focus on like hitting center and hitting with structure...just wanted some other peoples opinions. Thanks

Migs · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2006, 01:32:13 PM »

yes it is very good for MMA. remember mma gloves are not like boxing gloves. since they are made for grappling, wing chun techniques can apply. Wing chun has many trapping hands and strikes. I have trained in wing chun for many years and it has proven very effective in my mma training. There are three main forms of Wing chun, and in easch there are many hands that can be applied to mma. even the kicks when properly done can do major damage. The inside fighting that WC teaches is very effective in opening up the weakness of your opponent. WC is usually not givn the respect it is due since it is not flashy and people don't know much about it.

an123 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2006, 01:58:19 PM »

*thinks of a list of WC fighters (who list it as their primary discipline) that have done well at any level in MMA*

Sorry, can't. I'm sure there is some application though.

Migs · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2006, 02:32:50 PM »

if you use WC as your primary then they wont go into mma. It breaks away too much from their traditional teachings. Many applications and joint strikes/locks can be used. The thing also with WC is that there are no high kicks, since they arent practical. Just cuz you cant think of any WC artists doesnt mean that they cant do well in mma. Besides many of the people that study WC dont study ot long enough to understand the concept and then are usually training in other arts simultaenoulsy so that they can go into mma.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2006, 11:28:30 PM »

Very true. Few have the discipline these days to complete an art. Few master it. Few make it to the Shodan level. I don't know if Wing Chun has been used in the UFC, but Keith Hackney was a gung fu fighter that was very successful. Afterall, he defeated a 6'5'' 500 pound sumo wrestler. I'm serious.

NPCOK · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2006, 04:50:22 AM »

Thanks for the feedback..wing chun also helps get you in close to your opponent, and I am 5'5 so thats a good thing for me..lol The low kicks would seem more practical for me as well since my high kicks would still be chest high at best against a tall opponent. I have more of a ground and pound style (at least thats where I feel most effective) and the low kicks help to take down opponents.

Migs · « **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2006, 05:58:02 AM »

no problem. just make sure that you understand the principles and pratcice chi sao and dan chi. this will be the key to getting inside and being able to fight inside.

an123 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2006, 07:31:38 AM »

Quote from: realkarateblackbelt on June 01, 2006, 11:28:30 PM

Very true. Few have the discipline these days to complete an art. Few master it. Few make it to the Shodan level. I don't know if Wing Chun has been used in the UFC, but Keith Hackney was a gung fu fighter that was very successful. Afterall, he defeated a 6'5'' 500 pound sumo wrestler. I'm serious.

And then got his ass handed to him by a 6' 170 pound Royce Gracie. The sumo had zero skills and a weak chin, that flying hitoe/knife edge wouldn't have hit most peoples grand mothers, let alone a trained fighter.

Any 'art' you can 'complete' isn't worth doing, in my opinion. In most 'arts' you start at blackbelt, not finish.

Migs · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2006, 07:46:52 AM »

traditional WC has no belt/ranking system. You never complete your training. it evolves hence chi sao etc. Any fighter has a chance of losing. The topic was is WC effective as a striking art for use in MMA, the asnwer is yes.

an123 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2006, 10:29:32 AM »

Quote from: Migs on June 02, 2006, 07:46:52 AM

traditional WC has no belt/ranking system. You never complete your training. it evolves hence chi sao etc. Any fighter has a chance of losing. The topic was is WC effective as a striking art for use in MMA, the asnwer is yes.

Says you.

I've seen a few wing chun demos and I have never seen a guy throw a punch like that in mma. The whole "simultaneous" motion goes out the window when the other guy is using 'moves' not taught by the system. It may have application in "the streets", but in mma conventional boxing/thaiboxing/kickboxing will always rule.

NPCOK · « **Reply #10 on:** June 02, 2006, 01:30:26 PM »

I'm trying to get a good mix...I know there are good things to learn from many different styles. I will be finished with my last bodybuilding competition this year in two weeks (Jr Nationals) After that I will have alot more time in my schedule. I will keep working stand up once a week with the guy I mentioned, and I will start back in BJJ once a week...Kenpo once a week, and then I'm also going to start working with a traditional boxing coach once a week. Mikey Burnett lives here in Tulsa, where I live and I might also start working with him...I used to work out at his gym when I was younger. Thanks again for the feedback!

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #11 on:** June 02, 2006, 03:38:33 PM »

Quote from: an123 on June 02, 2006, 07:31:38 AM

And then got his ass handed to him by a 6' 170 pound Royce Gracie. The sumo had zero skills and a weak chin, that flying hitoe/knife edge wouldn't have hit most peoples grand mothers, let alone a trained fighter.

Any 'art' you can 'complete' isn't worth doing, in my opinion. In most 'arts' you start at blackbelt, not finish.

Everyone got their "ass handed to them" at the time by Gracie because nobody was training ground. Keith is an example of a successful Gung Fu fighter. He was great. He beat that sumo silly! And everyone else excluding Gracie.

Migs · « **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2006, 07:03:50 AM »

Quote from: an123 on June 02, 2006, 10:29:32 AM

Says you.

I've seen a few wing chun demos and I have never seen a guy throw a punch like that in mma. The whole "simultaneous" motion goes out the window when the other guy is using 'moves' not taught by the system. It may have application in "the streets", but in mma conventional boxing/thaiboxing/kickboxing will always rule.

Wrong, but you are entitled to your opinions. I stuy and train on both. I have first hand knowledge of both systems and can attest to its validity.Simultaenous attack and defense is very useful. WC is not taught by many and in general people train in boxing style arts for mma. The whole premise of chi sao is to defend against and exploit weaknesses and attacks from many angles regarldess of the other style.

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2006, 09:05:57 AM »

Quote from: an123 on June 01, 2006, 01:58:19 PM

*thinks of a list of WC fighters (who list it as their primary discipline) that have done well at any level in MMA*

Sorry, can't. I'm sure there is some application though.

I remember seeing a Wing Chun guy compete in the now defunct Extreme Fighting org. His opponent was Russian Sambo player Igor Zinoviev. The Wing Chun guy was promptly taken down and ass raped.

Migs · « **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:02:25 PM »

ehat was his name?

an123 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2006, 01:35:45 PM »

Quote from: NPCOK on June 02, 2006, 01:30:26 PM

I'm trying to get a good mix...I know there are good things to learn from many different styles. I will be finished with my last bodybuilding competition this year in two weeks (Jr Nationals) After that I will have alot more time in my schedule. I will keep working stand up once a week with the guy I mentioned, and I will start back in BJJ once a week...Kenpo once a week, and then I'm also going to start working with a traditional boxing coach once a week. Mikey Burnett lives here in Tulsa, where I live and I might also start working with him...I used to work out at his gym when I was younger. Thanks again for the feedback!

I think you are going a bit too far on being "diverse"... The whole student of all but master of none. Most of the top fighters today excelled in something, then added to their repitoire. But that is more of a function of the relative immaturity of the sport. I'm sure you can learn many different things, from many different arts... But doing them all at once will just confuse you.

Bjj once a week, wont make you a ground wizard.
Boxing/kickboxing/wc once a week, wont make you a stand up fighter...

Besides, the instructor will have to continually repeat things with you since you only go once a week.

an123 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2006, 01:45:07 PM »

Loss Marco Ruas Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UU 95-Ultimate Utlimate 1995 12/16/1995 1 2:39
Loss Royce Gracie Submission (Armlock) UFC 4-Revenge of the Warriors 12/16/1994 1 5:32
Win Joe Son Submission (Choke) UFC 4-Revenge of the Warriors 12/16/1994 1 2:44
Win Emmanuel Yarborough TKO (Strikes) UFC 3-The American Dream 9/9/1994 1 1:59

Here is Hackney's record... Beating Joe Son and Yarborough isn't exactly an accomplishment. I'd like to know how a guy with a 2 and 2 record was beating everyone else "silly".

The two quality oponents he fought beat him in the first round.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2006, 03:35:56 PM »

Nobody could go standup with him. Including a guy that was almost three times his weight. This was back when the UFC was real NHB with no gloves, no weight classes, groin strikes, head stomps, headbutting, and etc. Keith Hackney was one of the best. Even Tito Ortiz said he waited until they added more rules and weightclasses to the UFC before entering. That's because he's a pussy.

Oldschool Flip · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:43:08 PM »

Quote from: realkarateblackbelt on June 01, 2006, 11:28:30 PM

Very true. Few have the discipline these days to complete an art. Few master it. Few make it to the Shodan level. I don't know if Wing Chun has been used in the UFC, but Keith Hackney was a gung fu fighter that was very successful. Afterall, he defeated a 6'5'' 500 pound sumo wrestler. I'm serious.

When Hackney did it it was UFC 1 and he was a substitute because Gracie was injured and couldn't continue. Gracie went on to defeat Hackney with no effort. There is no way in the world Hackney, even in his prime, would make it in today's UFC.

Oldschool Flip · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:49:00 PM »

Quote from: realkarateblackbelt on June 03, 2006, 03:35:56 PM

Even Tito Ortiz said he waited until they added more rules and weightclasses to the UFC before entering. That's because he's a pussy.

Where's the source of that quote, a give us the the article where he said that. If there's no proof, then it's just anecdotal.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2006, 06:38:59 PM »

Quote from: Oldschool Flip on June 03, 2006, 05:43:08 PM

When Hackney did it it was UFC 1 and he was a substitute because Gracie was injured and couldn't continue. Gracie went on to defeat Hackney with no effort. There is no way in the world Hackney, even in his prime, would make it in today's UFC.

Bro, I already said nobody could beat Gracie at the time because people weren't crosstraining. But his standup skills were fantastic. You say Hackney in his prime couldn't compete, but that's your opinion. Hackney was a true "street fighter" not a sport fighter like the current crop.

realkarateblackbelt · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2006, 06:45:28 PM »

I heard Tito say that on the radio in an interview. Believe it or not it makes no difference to me. They asked him why he got into it.....he started going into some long winded explanation and then he said it. He's a sport fighter.

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2006, 08:36:08 PM »

Quote from: Migs on June 03, 2006, 12:02:25 PM

ehat was his name?

I researched it a bit. I believe the guy's name is Jim Teachout, and it wasn't Zinoviev, but John Lewis who administered the bitchslapping.

Migs · « **Reply #23 on:** June 04, 2006, 06:48:47 AM »

the only thing i could find was that Jim is stunt man. Nothing on his training background

an123 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2006, 11:28:58 AM »

"Realkarate blackbelt", should get in the cage and show them the true power of Tae-ko-ku-shodan and chinto.

I'm completely serious, show them the power of traditional martial arts and the dedication it takes to get a blackbelt in shotokan karate. Obviously your vast knowledge of kata will protect you from those morons who just do thai boxing and bjj.