Author Topic: seated over head presses (Read 3917 times)

texasRUSH · « **on:** June 19, 2006, 10:31:04 AM »

should i approach this as a powerlifting or mass building exercise? both?

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:03:47 AM »

are you wanting to bodybuild or powerlift?

texasRUSH · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:06:39 AM »

been asking myself that alot lately....

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:30:04 AM »

Well I definatly use that excersise more for bodybuilding, usually after some bent over laterals or side laterals, then i'll do 4 sets ending in a drop set sometimes but I do incorperate Powerlifting into it once in a while by starting with the presses and doing 5 sets the last 2 sets being 2-6 reps. but you need to establish goals first....what you want. if its all about the lifts or if its how you look and wieght means fuck all, whats in your head is very important.

sarcasm · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:32:47 PM »

do the best of both worlds, sets of 5, it always makes me laugh when jackasses say that 5 rep sets don't build muscle, bullshit.

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:06:34 PM »

Quote from: sarcasm on June 19, 2006, 01:32:47 PM

do the best of both worlds, sets of 5, it always makes me laugh when jackasses say that 5 rep sets don't build muscle, bullshit.

I agree, i don't do low rep sets every workout but I do them for certain excersises. I think 4-6 reps sets build muscle and strength.

texasRUSH · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:08:14 PM »

my last press session went..

225x8x1
275x4x2
315x1x1

sarcasm you're thinking i should go something like

225x6x1
275x6x1
315x1x4? maybe?

sarcasm · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:11:23 PM »

that sounds great, monster weight by the way, good job.

pumpster · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:39:44 PM »

Quote

sets of 5, it always makes me laugh when jackasses say that 5 rep sets don't build muscle, bullshit.

Sets of 5 can work and build some muscle, but generally it's not the most efficient for BB or development. It's better for strength development, part of which involves heavy stress on the joints and ligaments-OK for those lucky enough not to be susceptible to injury.

Presses with low reps & high weight is one of the best ways to create shoulder impingement; AKA one of the best ways possible to f--- the shoulders up.

Playing the odds, the smarter long-term drill involves reps in the moderate 8-12 range or even up to 15.

Smith or machine versions are a nice change of pace.

texasRUSH · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2006, 05:36:48 AM »

i use the smith machine only in this exercise..i think it helps prevent possible injury and i can set the rack to just below 90* for the pressing...JUST INCASE. and i have yet to find a spotter that an effectively save my ass if something was to happen with this kinda weight on my shoulders.

pumpster · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2006, 06:20:37 AM »

The Smith can help avoid injury and can work the muscle better in some cases.

Doing only the first 1/2-2/3 portion of the ROM is another way to hit the muscles well while reducing injury potential.

texasRUSH · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2006, 06:24:24 AM »

after my shoulder scare 3 weeks or so ago...

injury prevention is priority number one as well as it should always be... $:-\$ now if my shoulder even begins to talk to me...i quit for the day..there's always tomorrow

JPM · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:09:28 AM »

5X5's have probably been responable for adding more muscle mass & power to thousands of men over the years. The original concept was for a whole body workout, with 5 total execises preformed in the workouts (some call the program 5X5X5's or triple 5's) . That's 25 reps per body part. Quite a few BB'ers who haven't been making progress (slow or nil) in their regular training can take a week off and than go back to the basic's of 5X5's. This does not mean that anyone can't split the 5's during a training week, like lower body one day, upper next, etc. Some experienced lifters will do 7X7's per body part for recharging training gains.

Military presses are a great muscle builder for the whole shoulder girdle. Even the trap's and upper pec's are involved to a certain extent. The push or jerk presses are also prime mass developer's. Any of these above exercises build the joint complex even stronger when preformed in correct style. Joint stress and potentional damage can appear when the bar is pressed too far forward overhead and not directly inline with the body. Also when the elbows are held too wide, rather then closer to the body. Of course flexability and a good warm-up before training is always good insurance. My personal view (for what it's worth) is the the BP gives more potentional for shouder injury than military presses.

Presses can be approached as a powerlifting and mass builder at the same time. They go hand in hand. Might even try the 5X5's on a pressing program. The Bradfors press, though not for everyone, hits the delt structure very well as does the PBN. Half to 3/4 reps are what most all the Pro's (Ive seen live and in living color) and some very strong men, do mostly in their workouts. I have never seen a truly big man complete full ROM's in any overhead pressing, including total lockouts.. Though the Smith machine is usefull in any kind of pressing (ovehead, bench, incline, etc) motion, it does not allow following the individual strength curve, the pattern to too ridget. Might be OK for lighter weight loads (like conventional, moderate weight BB'ing) but the odd's for serious injury will always be present when heavier weight's are used.

Might also want to incluse a DB exercise to go along with a pressing program. The one are side press comes to mind as an excellent power & muscle builder. Good Luck.

texasRUSH · « **Reply #13 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:29:40 AM »

what do you mean half or 3/4 reps? a full rep is down to what? i'm only going to 90* so i'm guessing that's half a rep?

JPM · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:51:43 AM »

TexasRush: Some of the Pro's I've seen, and exceptional strong men I've trained with, do not lower the bar all the way down (maybe 2-3 inches before) to the shoulders and press just about 2-3 inches before lockout. Standard course for them. So it's with-in a three quarter motion and sometimes a half range. They do the reps very rapidly, like they just want to get it over with. Same can be said for the BP or inclines, weither a BB or DB is used. Not a great example, but something like Big Lou did in Pumping Iron when he was pressing overhead. Reps: short, fast & sweet.

Not that I would want to cast any doubt's on the posting of some of the weight your using, it's really not my place, but they do sound puffed up for the readership here. I know sometimes the imaganation can get away from one when weight used and measurements are discussed. Now a 315 lb true press, which not too many experience lifters can muster, can look suspicious. As can the claim of a 400lb bench for two reps. You posted 1-2-06 that you were only doing 4X10's for 210lbs. That is quite an accomplishment. In fact reading some of those past post are very intereting. I hope that I maybe wrong in assuming that you are expanding on the real weight of the lifts you claim. I know you cycle 'roids, but even high grade lifter's don't quite make the improvements, you suggest for yourself, with them.

Hopefully I am wrong and you are the phenomenon that is suggested by your press & bench weight postings. Actually I would like to be proven wrong and watch your future progress in lifting/BB'ing. Good Luck.

brianX · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:53:30 AM »

I prefer to do all my overhead presses while standing. You just power clean the weight and press it overhead with a little bit of backward lean. It is a tremendous strength and mass builder for the entire body. Most gym rats don't have the balls to do this exercise, which is why you never see anyone doing it.

texasRUSH · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:59:47 AM »

lol you want to see phenomenal?

when i started my gym membership at the beginning of may i hadn't squated a single rep in over a year...the first workout i couldn't even work up to 315lbs to parallel without struggling

i hit 565 to parallel saturday..

texasRUSH · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:03:24 AM »

Quote

prefer to do all my overhead presses while standing. You just power clean the weight and press it overhead with a little bit of backward lean. It is a tremendous strength and mass builder for the entire body. Most gym rats don't have the balls to do this exercise, which is why you never see anyone doing it.

I do them seated because i'm scared to death i'm gonna kill myself....

pumpster · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:07:23 AM »

Standing's definitely a little different. If you want to progress you'll want to do a few cheats at the end of sets; easier to do while standing. Use a Smith machine or other type of machine if worried about balance.

Use partial reps that avoid the bottom of the motion, where the maximum shoulder joint stress occurs.

texasRUSH · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:13:16 AM »

i feel like i could hit 315 for reps if i'm doing partials...but the reason i have yet to do them is the same reason i stopped doing them for leg presses...all the trainers that stood to watch my do massive partials in the leg press said

"you do know you're not accomplishing anything right"
"you're not working much of anything...just a very small portion of your quad"
"if you're not touching your knees to your chest you're not getting any benefits"

so i took almost 500lbs off my leg press to go full range...if ya'll are telling me i can do about 5 inches worth of super heavy pressing movements with my shoulders and reap the same benefits as going full range with lighter reps..i'm going super heavy for the strength factor alone!

pumpster · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:29:42 AM »

Partials can sometimes be better than full ROMs, despite what some close-minded trainers and some resident experts here might suggest. Just ensure that if you're using them for full sets, do at least 50-60% ROM. If used at the end of a set only, can use smaller portions of the ROM.

Box squats are a classic example espoused by some powerlifters; better than regular squats from my experience.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/box-squat.htm

Chain workouts use a similar idea.

davie · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:42:12 AM »

I have always been kind of led to believe that partials are done at end of routine, and are used as a means of helping break through plateaus/sticking points?!

davie

pumpster · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2006, 11:49:57 AM »

Partials can be used:

-End of set after reaching failure on full reps, to increase intensity. Great.

-On their own, assuming 50-95% ROM for full sets. Proven effect, often more effective than conventional reps. Most of my squat strength and leg development came from box squats.

Can be applied to any exercise: experiment with different ranges for each exercise to find the sweet spot. On preachers, eliminate the bottom part of the ROM which removes ligament stress, allows the movement to stay within the stronger areas of muscle motion, and keeps tension on the muscle, increasing tut (time under tension).

Another is triceps pushdowns-try doing only the bottom 1/2 motion that are widely used by some of the greats.

Overload · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2006, 02:22:50 PM »

Quote from: brianX on June 20, 2006, 10:53:30 AM

I prefer to do all my overhead presses while standing. You just power clean the weight and press it overhead with a little bit of backward lean. It is a tremendous strength and mass builder for the entire body. .

that is the only way i will do a BB overhead press. i get a much better overall workout when i do them standing. i alternate them with seated DB presses and i have had alot of results this way. there is only one other guy at my gym who does clean and presses. there are a few kids that do standing presses but they use the squat rack to support it and they don't clean the weight, which is half the workout.

JPM · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2006, 07:32:07 AM »

TexRUSH: Just about dropped my bagel into my coffee when you posted that 565 squat. Actually I groaned a bit and muttered..."OH Brother" under my breath. You should have a training advice column or your own blog site, if you don't have one already. Just wondering if that was a one legged or two legged squat? Anyway, keep it up big guy. Good luck.