Author Topic: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI  (Read 8270 times)

johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2006, 04:06:38 PM »
OK, the cyclists in Tour de france get about 7000 calories a day from food, and they can use up to 10000 calories some days while competing so they must have huuuuge bellies then... because Kamali says so  ::)   



SORRY RAMI !!  You need to check you facts.. Those 160 pound cyclists don't come anywhere near 7,000 calories. 

This is what Lance Armstrong eats during one of the most difficult stages of the tour:
Armstrong's first critical feed zone will be Tuesday's breakfast.

Armstrong's feast will include two bowls of whole grain cereal topped with skim milk and fresh fruit, a three- or four-egg omelet and some pasta, rice or potatoes. (Whuppty do )

"And don't forget the two cups of Peet's Coffee," Carmichael says.

The preparation for the next day of racing begins immediately after the rider crosses the finish line.

"Recovery is absolutely essential for surviving the Tour de France," Carmichael says. "After you spend all day racing at full-throttle, you have to replenish energy, vitamins and minerals you depleted."

Minutes after a race, Armstrong gets a specially formulated recovery drink, then moves on to a smoothie with carbohydrates, anti-oxidants and calcium.

Within about 90 minutes of the end of the stage, Armstrong sits down with the team for dinner, which includes plenty of meat, fish, pasta, fresh vegetables and fruit. (OH My GOD !! WHAT a Beast !)http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/tourdefrance/2005-07-10-lance-eats_x.htm
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This is what Lance eats in the off-season: (Strait from his trainer)

"Most people gain weight over the winter, and Lance is no exception-he normally gains ten to twelve pounds during the winter months. In the months leading up to the Tour de France he will use a digital scale and every day he will weigh all of his food - cereal, bread, pasta, chicken - everything.

We schedule his daily workouts to leave late in the morning, so that he can ride six hours and right through the lunch hour. He returns home about five or six o'clock in time for a quick dinner. Upon arrival he drinks a protein smoothie, a little pasta and then it is time for bed. This begins in May, only two meals are consumed daily enabling him to reach his optimal power to weight ratio. This regimen is very extreme and only recommended for top professionals and even the pros can only maintain this type of lifestyle for a few weeks at a time."
http://lancearmstrong.com/training/latest.html

This is another example of one of those suck-ass statements made about media darlings (Armstrong) that is never challenged. Similiar statements like Michael Jordan & Tiger Woods both incline press 350 pounds have been published, and repeaqted so often that they become facts.

Lastly, a world class cyclist would only occasionally eat a huge amount of calories. A world class BB is eating a much greater amount every day for 10-15 years strait !!! 


Gordon_Gekko

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2006, 04:32:54 PM »
1) There is no way that a natural BB who is 5'9" eats as much as a Juiced BB at 5'9", simply because the juiced BB will have 30-60 pounds more muscle  !!!  Muscle consumes 40 calories / pound every day. Therefore the juiced BB HAS TO eat 1200-2400 more calories / day-EVERY DAY-than the natural guy.
To say that a Natty eats as much as a juicer is absolutely ridiculous.

2) I said that food was the MAIN reason, not the ONLY reason. The drugs do have an effect, but FOOD is the main reason.  Arnold was 231 lbs in 1975 Olympia, 28 years old.  Coleman is around 285 at 5'11". If Coleman was 6'2" like Arnold, he would be weighing 315 pounds !!!  How much more food must Coleman eat EVERY F-----g Day to maintain that advantage at comparable bodyheights ?  2000-3000 calories ?  So if Arnold & Coleman stood onstage next to each other at the same height (6'2") whose waist would look larger ?   Then you must factor in that Coleman would be eating an extra 3000 cal / day for 13 ADDITIONAL YEARS !  Tell me-Where is all that food supposed to go so that it doesn't press against the abdominal wall & create distension ?   

(3000 extra calories) X (13 years) X (365 days) = 14,235,000 extra calories !!
Ronnie Coleman would have eaten 14 MILLION more calories than Arnold , and you IDIOTS wonder
why Colemans stomach sticks out further !!

 You people literally have no clue as to what you are talking about...

3)  I shouldnt calling you people pinheads, well....Yes I should.  You are all out of your minds, and know nothing about the sport if you cant figure out the main reason is the food.

4) Lee Haney retired at 29 years old, Arnold at 28 !!  They kept their small waists because they retired young !!!  Look how bad Arnolds waist looked in that famous picture of him on the beach a couple years ago !!  Because he was OLDER !!  Accoring to your theories, ARnold must be using GH & "Slin (dawg), becasue his waist is so large !!  The reason is that Arnold has been eating food for 25 MORE YEARS since his Olympia Days, and JUST LIKE THE ROOTS of a TREE, His INSIDES have slowly been growing for the last 25 years, AMAZINGLY, wHile EATING LESS FOOD than when Arnold competed.   The older a man gets, the harder it is to keep the waist tight while eating the SAME amount of food !!  Yates had a little gut at 35 years old, Coleman does at 41. 

5) You all must be relatively younger guys (under 32) to not have figured out the age thing yet.


Can you provide a scientific reference that provides any proof that one pound of muscle burns exactly 40 calories per day in anyone and everyone? Am I reading your post correctly in that you appear to be implying that you know for a fact that Coleman ate "x" more calories per day than Arnold because he weighed "y" pounds more than Arnold? You appear to be totally ignoring individuality - differences in bone structure, metabolism, activity levels, etc. But you do appear to have good basic math skills. Are you by chance a Heavy Duty / HIT advocate?

And as for your theory about age and food being primarily responsible for the guts - as you know, the metabolism slows with age. A 25 year old 250lb bodybuilder will require fewer and fewer calories to maintain that size as he ages. He may need 8,000 calories a day at 25, but will likely be needing far fewer calories at 35. Of course he will also find it harder to keep bodyfat down. This assumes that no hormones or other drugs were used. Drug usage complicates things and changes the whole picture.

You honestly believe that it's strictly age and food - that drugs like gh, IGF-1, and insulin play virtually no part in the distention? Did Bill Pearl or Robbie Robinson (both of whom competed well past their thirties) ever have huge guts onstage (or even offseason)?

At 36, I'm a good 60-70 pounds heavier than I was at 26 (alot more muscle, a little more fat), but I actually cannot eat like I could then. My gut sticks out a little, but it flattens out nicely when I drop 20-25 pounds for "beach season". I have yet to use any bodybuilding drugs.
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johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2006, 05:28:49 PM »
What are you trying to prove with this post? LOL!

I am trying to map out the logic that BB eat more food than any other athletes by far.
Including exaggerated claims by cyclists on only select days of the year. 
And BB eat huge amounts of food on a daily
basis for years at a time.. No other athlete comes even close.

Lack of fiber in the diet also causes distension. Thats why Cutler himself states that he
eats so much broccoli.

The intestines & liver & stomach fuction EXACTLY like the roots of a tree.. They BOTH
absorb nutrients.  The roots of a tree tend to only get larger as time goes on, and more
importantly STAY LARGER than when the TREE / athlete was young.  Even if you were to
cut-off HALF the branches of a tree, the main (hardened) roots of the tree would not
automatically shrink. They would maintain their size for a Long-long time.

Tell me, What other animal in the World (Bears, elephants, tigers, dogs, cats) can develop
their bodies to twice what is normal and still maintain a wasp-like waist ?  What other animal
forces twice as much into their bodies over a 15 year period-yet maintains a svelte-tiny waist ?
And we can assume that the animals are not using GH / Insulin.

Answer... NONE.


johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2006, 06:00:59 PM »
Show me anywhere in the recognized medical literature where it has been demonstrated that human intestines, stomachs and livers get significantly larger in the normal corse of aging.

Until you do, this is just bullshit theorizing on your part.

In case you are not aware, Longitudinal studies (10-20 years long) simply are not done by the medical community.  Just OPEN YOUR EYES and look around at all the people that you know that have much larger waists in their late 30's to 40's and the correlation is obvious.  I have worked at GNC for the last 4 years and EVERYDAY I talk to atleast 15 people (customers) that can't seem to do anything to get their waists back to the size it was at when they were younger.  Mostly caused by late nite eating, too many processed carbs, lack of fiber, skipping morning meals.

Do the math, that is over 15,000 people that I have PERSONALLY spoke to & observed

But of Course your would put more stock into a 6 week long study done by
the Baylor Medical Center on 6 people-than observing 15,000 people over 20 years..

Am I theorizing ? Yes !   Is it bullshit as you state ? I don't think so.

Just Curious Goatboy, with respect, May I ask your age ?

dirk digler

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2006, 06:35:42 PM »
C'mon. Why is it that groups of "high energy" athletes like cyclists, footballers, triathletes etc. eat insane amounts of food but never have that bloated look so common in pro bbing???

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2006, 06:42:58 PM »

Here's where his argument falls flat:  yes, as you get older you need fewer calories and if you don't reduce your calories your bodyfat will go up and your waist size along with it.  But, if you are dieted down to 6% for a show, why would that matter? 6% is 6%, whether you are 25 or 45.  Maybe an older person is more likely to have higher bodyfat, but if he doesn't (anyone dieted down for a show obviously doesn't), there will be no effect to the waist.

Agreed. As far as I can tell, if we eliminate drugs from the equation, possible relatively small differences in waist size on a person (at the same bodyfat percentage) could be due to increased muscle mass thoughout the body (including the abs and obliques) over time, or (more temporarily) through a bit of water retention or over-fullness ("carbing up", "shitloading", etc). But these changes are much less dramatic than the distention we're seeing on bodybuilding stages today. The stomach is only going to stretch so much during the shortterm precontest "loading", and if one continues this and overeats for any length of time, they will "spill over", lose the "ripped" look, etc.
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johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2006, 06:46:50 PM »
Can you provide a scientific reference that provides any proof that one pound of muscle burns exactly 40 calories per day in anyone and everyone? Am I reading your post correctly in that you appear to be implying that you know for a fact that Coleman ate "x" more calories per day than Arnold because he weighed "y" pounds more than Arnold? You appear to be totally ignoring individuality - differences in bone structure, metabolism, activity levels, etc. But you do appear to have good basic math skills. Are you by chance a Heavy Duty / HIT advocate?

And as for your theory about age and food being primarily responsible for the guts - as you know, the metabolism slows with age. A 25 year old 250lb bodybuilder will require fewer and fewer calories to maintain that size as he ages. He may need 8,000 calories a day at 25, but will likely be needing far fewer calories at 35. Of course he will also find it harder to keep bodyfat down. This assumes that no hormones or other drugs were used. Drug usage complicates things and changes the whole picture.

You honestly believe that it's strictly age and food - that drugs like gh, IGF-1, and insulin play virtually no part in the distention? Did Bill Pearl or Robbie Robinson (both of whom competed well past their thirties) ever have huge guts onstage (or even offseason)?

At 36, I'm a good 60-70 pounds heavier than I was at 26 (alot more muscle, a little more fat), but I actually cannot eat like I could then. My gut sticks out a little, but it flattens out nicely when I drop 20-25 pounds for "beach season". I have yet to use any bodybuilding drugs.

For the 3rd time, I am stating that Food is the MAIN reason. I NEVER said that food is the ONLY reason.  (Re-read my posts) OF COURSE the drugs have an effect. The heavy squatting has an effect..  It bothers me that so few Get-Biggers can't get it thru their heads that todays BB carry 20-30-40-50-60 Pounds more muscle than the BB of Yesteryear. ANd they refuse to acknowledge that someone who has 50 more pounds of muscle at the SAME height HAS TO eat alot more food, and their stomach will appear larger at the same height. . And they also can't seem to answer the question "Where must all that food first pass thru-the STOMACH. So, "How can the stomach stay the same size as Ken Wallers ?"  How can today's BB hide all that food & still have the same waist as a 1970's pro that was 50 pounds lighter ?
It simply can't.

Although I have not personally lived with & witnessed Coleman & Arnold & Cutler & Kamali eat every meal, it is a safe assumption that the more muscle a BB carries, the more he has to eat to maintain it. It is in direct propertion.
I have read in the magazines what Cutler & Kamali & Coleman eat every day, and it is a hell of alot mote than Arnold & Franco & Berry Demey.

As far as PROVING that muscle is metabolically active (40 calories / pound), and fat is NOT (7 calories / pound),
that is evident in the amount of food that ALL strength athletes MUST eat every day to support their muscle tissue.
There doesn't exist ANY HUMAN BEINGS that carry a ton of muscle that eat like a bird.. If one such BB exists, then please tell me who it is ??

It is also what most nutritional experts & BB experts have gone on record as stating, including I believe Chris Aceto in his book, and studies have been done.  I can appreciate your desire for formal experiments, but I cannot spend the time to produce evidence to the obvious. Can you cite a medical study that disproves what I stated ?

Too many Get-Bigger's attack the Pro's about drug use at every chance. The TRUTH of the matter is that there are almost no Get-biggers that could manage to eat what the pro BB eat day in & day out, and they don't understand that or respect that.  The constant eating that is required is the real dedication that the rest of us don't have. In 2000 I won the HWT division of the Mr. Tampa Bay. It wasn't the training that was difficult-It was the EATING that drove me to insanity.

Can you PRODUCE any double-blind, peer-reviewed, university run studies that PROVE a MLB Baseball player MUST take batting practice on a regular basis to improve / maintain their skills ??  NOBODY would waste their time on an experiment with such a foregone conclusion.  FUCK the Doctors !!  Ask EVERY SINGLE coach in America from the big-leagues on down & you will have your REAL-LIFE answer. You don't need a study to tell you that.

THere are always exceptions to the rule. Christopher Reeves wife died of lung cancer (while not smoking),
while others smoke into their 70's & never contract the disease. But the OVERWHELMING majority of lung cancer is caused by smoking...  I don't know why Melvin Anthony has a small waist, while Gustavo doesn't.  But the more muscle a BB carries-the more they MUST eat. And the food MUST travel thru the stomach. And therefore, the digestive tract must GROW to accomodate the increased food. Just like the heart MUST grow to accomodate the increased muscle mass.

Todays BB literally DWARF Bill Pearl & Robby Robinson at the same height, so it still goes back to  
"How much muscle must be maintained on a daily basis"

AS FAR as HIT training, I was a believer in it because I was a Yates fan, but even Dorian admitted that it tore him apart injury-wise. I have backed off HIT & added a little more volume to my WKts.



johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2006, 06:52:18 PM »
C'mon. Why is it that groups of "high energy" athletes like cyclists, footballers, triathletes etc. eat insane amounts of food but never have that bloated look so common in pro bbing???

Dirk,  C'mon, None of the athletes you mentioned eat ANYWHERE near as much as a BB.  An NFL lineman that weighs 300 probably eats far less than a IFBB pro at 300 pounds.. When is the last tiome you saw Warren Sapp or Rueben Brown or Kinyatta Walker eating 10 times a day...EVERY DAY ??

I just posted what Lance Armstrong eats, it is a joke..

What sets BB-ing apart from ALL OTHER ATHLETES is their incredible nutritional regimen.
No other athlete can hold a candle to what these guys eat.


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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2006, 07:08:45 PM »

Mick Jagger almost died for you bitches!  >:(

I thought TP doing the Super Bowl halftime show was a huge step forward for the IFBB! :o

johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2006, 07:18:43 PM »
And all these 15000 people you are comparing with, they are contest ready and lowered their BF to the levels at which PROs competes? Because this is what we are talking about here, PROs with big guts on stage competing at low BF levels. We are not talking about aging people hanging around GNC having a hard time getting rid of BF accumulated around their waist and in their guts due to an age related slower metabolism. Get them down to 5% BF, then I'm with you on that comparison.

If you go to a local show, you will see that almost ALL the older athletes have larger & RELATIVELY distended waists compared to the guys in their teens & twenties. And most of them are NOT doing significant amounts of GH.   Even if one of my GNC couch potatoes got to a low BF % and competed, they would never re-capture the small waist of their teens. 

I forgot to mention that I am 30 pounds heavier now, and my waist is about 8 inches bigger, not 10.  My Bad.

Just look at a pesons skin, which is an ORGAN. If a fat person loses alot of weight, they STILL have a ton of extra skin that doesn't go away. Once an organ grows, it is very difficult to shrink it simply by losing some fat.

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2006, 08:17:21 PM »
most ppl accumulate quite a few pounds of beef in their gut over a lifetime, along with god knows what else. 

My late friend sgt d, they did an autopsy on him and found 2.7 pounds of petrified semen in his rectum.  Also my other friend canyoufeelthehorsecock - same thing.  His colon was packed tighter than shawn ray's wallet. 

dirk digler

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2006, 08:18:23 PM »
Dirk,  C'mon, None of the athletes you mentioned eat ANYWHERE near as much as a BB.  An NFL lineman that weighs 300 probably eats far less than a IFBB pro at 300 pounds.. When is the last tiome you saw Warren Sapp or Rueben Brown or Kinyatta Walker eating 10 times a day...EVERY DAY ??

I just posted what Lance Armstrong eats, it is a joke..

What sets BB-ing apart from ALL OTHER ATHLETES is their incredible nutritional regimen.
No other athlete can hold a candle to what these guys eat.


Do you have any idea the caloric expense of the "tour"????? These guys aren't fat on the first stage either.

johnnytosh

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2006, 08:39:07 PM »
Do you have any idea the caloric expense of the "tour"????? These guys aren't fat on the first stage either.

Quoting below from the article that I linked:

Tours are won and lost on summit finishes so it is vital the top contenders get their fuel tanks topped off before the Alps.

"Mountain stages are long and arduous, sometimes demanding more than six hours on the bike. At the speed Lance Armstrong and the pack ride up the mountain passes, they are burning 4-5 grams of carbohydrate, and 15-20 total calories, each minute," says Chris Carmichael, who has coached the six-time champ on the bike at the dinner table for most of his career.

That's about 1,200 calories for the last climb alone and a total of more than 5,000 during the five hours of riding Tuesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/tourdefrance/2005-07-10-lance-eats_x.htm

Keep in mind, according to the article, this is one of the toughest & longest stages of the tour. These cyclists DO NOT ride 6 hours per day, everyday. So they do not eat 5,000 calories every day-year round.. Not at a BW of 160.


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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2006, 08:41:31 PM »
when Labrada was on PBW he said it was due to insulin & GH so to say its just large ammounts of food is nonsense .

what the fuck would Labrada know? He's a scientist now?

And if it is gh and insulin (internal organ growth) then why dont alllllll the pro's have massive guts and more importantly the idjets that will never step on stage but use ridiculous quantities of gear not to mention the celebrities that are using GH these days...your theories are flawed

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2006, 08:44:39 PM »
Another unscientific myth that fools believe, brought to you by rabid vegans and the people who want to sell you "colon cleansing" supplements.  ::) 

i heard john wayne had like 20 pounds of beef in his gut when he died?

also, are you telling me I paid weedouttheweek $20 for a colon cleansing, and I didn't even need one?

BUCK 65

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Re: King and his "5 biggest pro" myths in MMI
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2006, 10:12:14 AM »
Hey Johnnytosh
Train harder, eat smarter.....
I am no spring chicken either & my waist is the same at my current age of 45 as it was when I was 30...
As you get older you have to do things waaayyy differently to get the same results...
not hatin', it can be done