Author Topic: Shwan PERINE`s comments regarding Natural Bodybuilding and Tom Prince.  (Read 12700 times)

The True Adonis

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The other side to that point is, does 288 pounds make for a more dedicated bodybuilder than one 100 pounds lighter- natural or not? I've been busting my butt in the gym, living a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and pouring more thought and love into bodybuilding than any sane person should, from the time I was 13- 24 years. Yet, I did so knowing almost from the start that I didn't have the natural capacity to put on scads of muscle, and that I would never compromise my long term health by taking drugs to counterract my limitations.

As I've stated many times on these boards, I've watched in envy as inexperienced guys would walk into the gym without much concern for bodybuilding at all who build up impressive physiques in short order, thanks to genetic 'blessings'. At the same time I'll toil away year after year, making the kind of progress that would send all of those guys packing in frustration within three months.

Doesn't this, in a way, make me even more dedicated than the guy who is genetically gifted and, for whatever reason, doesn't have compunctions about living on steroids for years on end? It takes more effort to climb a mountain than drive it.

There's a base notion in this 'sport' that equates size with experience, love and knowledge. It's the same prejudice Steve Blechman and John Romano foster when they pick on Peter for his physical attributes. It makes me realize in the end that many bodybuilders are what the public perceives them to be- thickheaded.

Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?

Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so.

Could any of you guys imagine the blessing of being able to earn a living doing what you've loved most of all since childhood? And knowing that this job would give you a good deal of authority and prestige  in the eyes of a number of people, wouldn't you feel a sense of duty to represent both yourself and your profession with all the dignity you could muster? I would.

Whether sarcasm or not (and I do suspect there was some there), Tom Prince's post was far from the worst I've seen. Whereas he was making a point, other pros have verbally bashed their (potential) fans in a manner befitting elementary school bullies.

All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.

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The other side to that point is, does 288 pounds make for a more dedicated bodybuilder than one 100 pounds lighter- natural or not? I've been busting my butt in the gym, living a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and pouring more thought and love into bodybuilding than any sane person should, from the time I was 13- 24 years. Yet, I did so knowing almost from the start that I didn't have the natural capacity to put on scads of muscle, and that I would never compromise my long term health by taking drugs to counterract my limitations.

As I've stated many times on these boards, I've watched in envy as inexperienced guys would walk into the gym without much concern for bodybuilding at all who build up impressive physiques in short order, thanks to genetic 'blessings'. At the same time I'll toil away year after year, making the kind of progress that would send all of those guys packing in frustration within three months.

Doesn't this, in a way, make me even more dedicated than the guy who is genetically gifted and, for whatever reason, doesn't have compunctions about living on steroids for years on end? It takes more effort to climb a mountain than drive it.

There's a base notion in this 'sport' that equates size with experience, love and knowledge. It's the same prejudice Steve Blechman and John Romano foster when they pick on Peter for his physical attributes. It makes me realize in the end that many bodybuilders are what the public perceives them to be- thickheaded.

Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?

Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so.

Could any of you guys imagine the blessing of being able to earn a living doing what you've loved most of all since childhood? And knowing that this job would give you a good deal of authority and prestige  in the eyes of a number of people, wouldn't you feel a sense of duty to represent both yourself and your profession with all the dignity you could muster? I would.

Whether sarcasm or not (and I do suspect there was some there), Tom Prince's post was far from the worst I've seen. Whereas he was making a point, other pros have verbally bashed their (potential) fans in a manner befitting elementary school bullies.

All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.

This is what he wrote as a comment for that "Steroid users sitting at the Big Table/Natties at the kids table" post by TP if I'm not mistaken.

YIP
Zack
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The True Adonis

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This post is by Jeff Preston regarding the Tom Prince issue on Naturals.  This is interesting and strangely prophetic given that it is befpre his kidney incident.


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    Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 09:00:52 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate is the arrogence that some who choose the drug route display.  The "I am bigger, I have more knowledge, I am of the elite....I am a superior form of man!" mentality.
I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight".
People who make comments like Mr. Prince did actually beleive that they have a superior work ethic, mastery of nutrition, blessed with genetics from the gods and that drugs play a very small part in their success.  What a delusional life!
We have been around the block, some more than others, and we have seen "Tom Prince's" come and go.
At the end of the day who is still standing with iron  in hand, sweat dripping from our brow  that is furrowed with the determination and heart that has lasted a lifetime?

Sorry Tom, your lame dog won't hunt in these woods!
 

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Chemical Bodybuilding never liked Natural bodybuilding from the start. It's a disgrace to see those juiced heads bashing those natural guys
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All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.

Yes, I agree.  I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money.  It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.

What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area?  Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc.  Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.

I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.

Hedgehog

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Yes, I agree.  I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money.  It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.

What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area?  Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc.  Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.

I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.

Bro, he's just quoting Shawn Perine.  ;)

YIP
Zack
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The True Adonis

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Joe Roark feels the same way.

Very interesting that the very writers of the magazines that feature the enhanced bodybuilders all feel this way.


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  Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2003, 09:28:02 AM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't cry if you're dead at a premature age.

Who is crying our for attention by becoming big by a means, which if that means were stopped, natural,
smaller size would return?

I'll take a smaller, natural body, which will turn no one's head, over a huge, temporarily large body, which
every onlooker (including the owner of the body) knows
is dependent on being on.

There is nothing fake about being natural. The worst
deceived man is the self-deceived man.
 

HUGEPECS

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can somebody posted those Tom Prince comments
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The True Adonis

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can somebody posted those Tom Prince comments

I think Matt C has the screenshot and comments saved.

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Yes, I agree.  I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money.  It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.

What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area?  Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc.  Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.

I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.


bad idea.  with the climate of sports today, i.e. steroids or everyone's mind, bbers really cant do anything.  everyone will just point the drug finger at them (which is true) regardless or how good a guy is or what he's done.  not necessarily fair, but that's how it is today. 

my main point being that regardless of what bbers do, the drug issue will always be the main topic.

R.I.P. DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT (1966-2004)

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Yes, I agree.  I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money.  It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.

What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area?  Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc.  Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.

I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.


what's the point of charity work if you have to make someone do it?  it defeates the purpose.

besides, there have been a few pics in FLEX from fans showing ronnie, jay, gunter, etc., at hospitals with kids.

lee priest has doen thing for the homeless before. 
R.I.P. DIMEBAG DARRELL ABBOTT (1966-2004)

The True Adonis

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Yes, I agree.  I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money.  It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.

What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area?  Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc.  Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.

I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.

Agree.

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Tom Prince Owns himself everyday he wakes up and people see him.... I remember those comments and I thought , ggeeeezzz i wish this guy would come off the drugs and see what he is saying...

L

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I'm sure there are many more casualties to come. He's not the last. Life teaches the hard way sometime. I hope he regrets those words
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legbreaker

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There is definitly the common misconception among gym rats that a guy with extreme muscularity and size must know more than the naturals in the sport.  Obviously this is the furthest thing from the truth..especially today with the "chemically engineered" bodybuilders all over the gyms.  Not all, but alot of guys today don't live the bodybuilding lifestyle like the guys of years past.  With GH, insulin it's relatively easy to develop a physique that gets attention.  Just walk into a down town gym in NY on a summer day and you'll see lost of guys that stay up partying till 7 am, eat close to nothing except some protein drinks, train half assed and take lots of gh and test and have a physique that could place in a local show. 
Do they know more than the naturals?  I trained as a natural competitor and competed as both.  For me, natural or enhanced didn't matter to my approach...100% all the time and always learning.  Obviously things do not come the same way for a natural so you must really apply yourself 100% to progress.  I do believe that with or without good genetics you should see improvement from month to month, year to year and if you aren't then your doing something wrong.  I did not have good structural genetics and built a physique naturally that won teen age shows in the NPC and later on as well.  Too often I see the excuse of "my genetics held me back".  Now of course you won't be a pro, some may not even be able to place in a natural show, but you should be able to develop a respectable amount of muscle mass and condition that standouts from your peers in the gym, natural or enhanced.

I've actually seen first hand the effort and consistancy Shawn P put into his training.  He was and is just as dedicated as any other BB, natural or not.  His mom also trained naturally and developed one of the top womens physiques at a time when not too many women even trained.  He "knows" Bodybuilding fundementals as well as anyone in the business.

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There is definitly the common misconception among gym rats that a guy with extreme muscularity and size must know more than the naturals in the sport.  Obviously this is the furthest thing from the truth..especially today with the "chemically engineered" bodybuilders all over the gyms.  Not all, but alot of guys today don't live the bodybuilding lifestyle like the guys of years past.  With GH, insulin it's relatively easy to develop a physique that gets attention.  Just walk into a down town gym in NY on a summer day and you'll see lost of guys that stay up partying till 7 am, eat close to nothing except some protein drinks, train half assed and take lots of gh and test and have a physique that could place in a local show. 
Do they know more than the naturals?  I trained as a natural competitor and competed as both.  For me, natural or enhanced didn't matter to my approach...100% all the time and always learning.  Obviously things do not come the same way for a natural so you must really apply yourself 100% to progress.  I do believe that with or without good genetics you should see improvement from month to month, year to year and if you aren't then your doing something wrong.  I did not have good structural genetics and built a physique naturally that won teen age shows in the NPC and later on as well.  Too often I see the excuse of "my genetics held me back".  Now of course you won't be a pro, some may not even be able to place in a natural show, but you should be able to develop a respectable amount of muscle mass and condition that standouts from your peers in the gym, natural or enhanced.

I've actually seen first hand the effort and consistancy Shawn P put into his training.  He was and is just as dedicated as any other BB, natural or not.  His mom also trained naturally and developed one of the top womens physiques at a time when not too many women even trained.  He "knows" Bodybuilding fundementals as well as anyone in the business.

Very good post.

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The other side to that point is, does 288 pounds make for a more dedicated bodybuilder than one 100 pounds lighter- natural or not? I've been busting my butt in the gym, living a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and pouring more thought and love into bodybuilding than any sane person should, from the time I was 13- 24 years. Yet, I did so knowing almost from the start that I didn't have the natural capacity to put on scads of muscle, and that I would never compromise my long term health by taking drugs to counterract my limitations.

As I've stated many times on these boards, I've watched in envy as inexperienced guys would walk into the gym without much concern for bodybuilding at all who build up impressive physiques in short order, thanks to genetic 'blessings'. At the same time I'll toil away year after year, making the kind of progress that would send all of those guys packing in frustration within three months.

Doesn't this, in a way, make me even more dedicated than the guy who is genetically gifted and, for whatever reason, doesn't have compunctions about living on steroids for years on end? It takes more effort to climb a mountain than drive it.

There's a base notion in this 'sport' that equates size with experience, love and knowledge. It's the same prejudice Steve Blechman and John Romano foster when they pick on Peter for his physical attributes. It makes me realize in the end that many bodybuilders are what the public perceives them to be- thickheaded.

Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?

Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so.

Could any of you guys imagine the blessing of being able to earn a living doing what you've loved most of all since childhood? And knowing that this job would give you a good deal of authority and prestige  in the eyes of a number of people, wouldn't you feel a sense of duty to represent both yourself and your profession with all the dignity you could muster? I would.

Whether sarcasm or not (and I do suspect there was some there), Tom Prince's post was far from the worst I've seen. Whereas he was making a point, other pros have verbally bashed their (potential) fans in a manner befitting elementary school bullies.

All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.

Shawn is a modest guy.  He may be small but I think he has developed a more aesthetically pleasing physique then a lot of the bloated line backer looking juiceheads

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It is sad to see this naturals v non naturals feud.There are enough people looking to attack the sport without us attacking each other.We all make choices regarding drug use and there is no right or wrong choice-no moral high ground should be taken by naturals nor should anyone be seen as 'more of a bodybuilder' if they are assisted.I am lifetime natural but have friends who are assisted and feel that there is mutual respect there as we are all bodybuilders who work hard to achieve our goals.The only time I would knock anyone for using is if they enter a natural contest although,here in the UK,I think this is a rarity.

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"I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight""

Epic prophesy!!  :o

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This post is by Jeff Preston regarding the Tom Prince issue on Naturals.  This is interesting and strangely prophetic given that it is befpre his kidney incident.


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    Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 09:00:52 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate is the arrogence that some who choose the drug route display.  The "I am bigger, I have more knowledge, I am of the elite....I am a superior form of man!" mentality.
I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight".People who make comments like Mr. Prince did actually beleive that they have a superior work ethic, mastery of nutrition, blessed with genetics from the gods and that drugs play a very small part in their success.  What a delusional life!
We have been around the block, some more than others, and we have seen "Tom Prince's" come and go.
At the end of the day who is still standing with iron  in hand, sweat dripping from our brow  that is furrowed with the determination and heart that has lasted a lifetime?

Sorry Tom, your lame dog won't hunt in these woods!
 

Monster foreshadow.

njflex

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Every post on this subject was as good as it get's on this forum  8)good read..

The True Adonis

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Every post on this subject was as good as it get's on this forum  8)good read..

Exactly...When I saw these posts by the acclaimed writers, I knew this was something worth bringing up and discussing.  I am glad the writers and those truly knowledgeable see through the bullshit in the industry.

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This post is by Jeff Preston regarding the Tom Prince issue on Naturals.  This is interesting and strangely prophetic given that it is befpre his kidney incident.


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    Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 09:00:52 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate is the arrogence that some who choose the drug route display.  The "I am bigger, I have more knowledge, I am of the elite....I am a superior form of man!" mentality.
I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight".
People who make comments like Mr. Prince did actually beleive that they have a superior work ethic, mastery of nutrition, blessed with genetics from the gods and that drugs play a very small part in their success.  What a delusional life!
We have been around the block, some more than others, and we have seen "Tom Prince's" come and go.
At the end of the day who is still standing with iron  in hand, sweat dripping from our brow  that is furrowed with the determination and heart that has lasted a lifetime?

Sorry Tom, your lame dog won't hunt in these woods!

 

Someone had the jewls to call a spade a spade. Unreal in the day and age of ass-licking delusionists.  Mutha-fukin Bravo! 

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"Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?

Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so."

These comments for me hit home more than any of the drugs vs. no drugs arguments here. Not all pros treat their fans like jerks on here or in person, however, quite a few do and I think we know who falls into each category. Professionals shouldn't lower themselves the way some have been seen to do by getting involved in jeuvenile pissing contests. 

shiftedShapes

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isn't it unethical for these guys to write for Flex when they know that Flex promotes the drug look and is probably the reason a lot of people get onto gear in the first place.

More importantly Flex is also somewhat responsible for the shift in judging standards that causes people to up their dosages (and get on gh and slin to keep up) jeopardizing their health.