Incomplete score sheets at Santa Susana show

[Adam Empire]

one big central tube with a bunch of little ropes all over it -- not good, none of the primary muscles are discernable.

Possibly the funniest description of Paco (and truest)

[Tre]

I would like to inform everyone that score sheets from Santa Susana IFBB PRO Invitational ARE NOT correct!

As we THE ATHLETES have requested numerous times to get COMPLETE SCORE SHEETS FROM EACH AND EVERY JUDGE - now is possibly a perfect time to see what is really happenning in the IFBB pro shows when judging is concerned.

I would ask the IFBB to post INDIVIDUAL JUDGING SCORES of every judge and in every round  - to prove the point that mistake occurred in counting the points.

Also we need to observe and analyze the judges and the way they are judging...After all if they are trained professionals hired to do the job they should have no problem putting the name on score sheets and stand by those decisions.

In lite of judging debacle at the last years Olympia and numerous other recent shows I would like to point out to mistakes that could be avoided IF we all start being responsible and liable for our actions.

Great post, Milos.

I agree that the lack of accountability has been a problem for a very long time.  More transparency in the scoring would give the entire process a lot more legitimacy and would erase many of the doubts that athletes and fans have today.

[the shadow]

What a mess for the IFBB. But is anyone really surprised. What sort of goofy serendipity happens to have the Spanish competitor win in Spain when he looks like silly puddy slapped together by a 4 year old.  It's like awarding Atwood #1 at the O because he's bigger than Coleman.

Mass yes, cuts yes...but it's all in the wrong places. It's like his legs are HUGE, but huge as in: one big central tube with a bunch of little ropes all over it -- not good, none of the primary muscles are discernable.

paco won the show fair and square..damn this milos is buggin me alot with his stupid accusations.just tell me whats the truth..milos has gone insane cuz his boy wolfe placed 3rd...so whats the fuckin reality milos then?

[Adam Empire]

paco won the show fair and square..damn this milos is buggin me alot with his stupid accusations.just tell me whats the truth..milos has gone insane cuz his boy wolfe placed 3rd...so whats the fuckin reality milos then?

Doesn't matter who won or placed.  The question is how did the scores not add up correctly?

[knny187]

Milos-

I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores ( as was adopted into rule last year) and the scoring system.

you mean.....rules are being broken?

 

[kyomu]

The question is : Milos, if Dennis won and Hide is in 6 or 7th place or something,DO YOU STILL MENTION ABOUT THIS SCORE SHEETS MATTER???

[kyomu]

Because you told me that Bull shit result and you looked clearly angry not at score sheet matter but  at the truth of  that Dennis couldnt win and Hide didnt do well.
What do you say?

[MonstaDwarf]

It would be seven if round 1 & 2 were combined.
Judges would judge each round individually in thier notes then decide the winner over both rounds, and submit one score, thus 7 1st =7
no conspiricy here, other than no individual judges score sheets being displayed.

[kyomu]

It would be seven if round 1 & 2 were combined.
Judges would judge each round individually in thier notes then decide the winner over both rounds, and submit one score, thus 7 1st =7
no conspiricy here, other than no individual judges score sheets being displayed.

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!! HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!

[getfast81]

Messed up score sheets?  Why is anyone shocked?  Milos needs to stop crying after every show one of his guys competes in. Damn let it go.  The IFBB is screwed anyway.  Let me guess if the score sheets were completed Wolf would have gotten 1st?  NO

[Adam Empire]

It's like you're rooting for the guy with the most tendons and veins and least amount of muscle. Any aliens who ate him would get him at the butcher shop for $.29/lb stewing meat only. Nothing of quality.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Damn Stringy meat!

[Ron]

I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores (as was adopted into the rule last year) and the scoring system.

This was adopted into the rule last year? Bob, have you seen the individual score sheet at the Master's Pro which you won? Have you personally requested to see the individual score sheets? Or can anyone view them? Are they for the public or are they just for the individual competitor?

[Chick]

This was adopted into the rule last year? Bob, have you seen the individual score sheet at the Master's Pro which you won? Have you personally requested to see the individual score sheets? Or can anyone view them? Are they for the public or are they just for the individual competitor?

I have yet to see a scoresheeet with the judges individual scores listed...for my show as well any any other pro show...If someone can locate one on the IFBB website, please point me in the right direvtion...maybe I missed it.

[knny187]

I have yet to see a scoresheeet with the judges individual scores listed...for my show as well any any other pro show...If someone can locate one on the IFBB website, please point me in the right direvtion...maybe I missed it.

I think what Ron is asking....

"Did you EVER request one?"

[Chick]

No, I have never requested one myself. I submitted it as a proposal, and it was adopted into rule...that they would be made public...there shouldn't be a need to "request" one.

As per the ruling...it should be up on the site within a week after the show.

[Adam Empire]

Do we actually need another reason to hate the IFBB?

[andydude00]

It is also very difficult to judge in this sport. Some people would place a certain amount of importance on waist size, others on amount of muscle (at expense of this waist size), others on width, others on presentation (the potential list is endless). Can the whole sport adopt a body ideal? Can all of the judges agree on one physique as the winning physique? If you notice the contest trends, only the Olympia and recently the Santa Susana Spanish Grand Prix award large waist sporting bodybuilders.

While I think it is next to impossible to attain this agreement among the judges, I do believe that Milos is right about the judge scoring sheets being released. The problem also seems to be how these people actually become judges. Are they tested to verify that they have sufficient knowledge on the sport? I would rather take judgements from former bodybuilders, and bb gurus like Chad, or Milos. I guess my whole point is that the sport has a serious structural problem, that needs to be addressed.

[Milos_Sarcev]

Dont get me wrong. I know Paco personaly and he is my neighbor. But,I was totaly far from that truth. I had problem with choosing Paco or Markus. But,Dennis...never.
I personaly liked Denniss phisic and I wish I could have body like him more than Paco and Rhul. But,judging BBing competition is another story.
Then I tell you the reason why Paco is ahead of Dennis this is clear.

Mass....Paco
Cuts....Paco
Shape.....Wolf.

Paco 2 and Wolf 1.

Its pure math.

As a Japanese I wish Hide well in the competion. But,5th is way exagerated.His legs are great. But,his back is too narrow and didnt have line that Italian had(Also mass). Silvio has same problem. VERY NARROW especialy when he hit doble bi.

When you realize that bodybuilding is much more than MASS, CUTS and SHAPE...you might change your mind...

That is the problem with most of the people - they are watching the show...but NOT REALLY LOOKING and SEEING what is up there on the stage...


Dennis was UNQUESTIONABLE WINNER....


If the contest was about most muscle with best condition - Paco was by far the most superior athlete on the stage...

[jaejonna]

Dennis was #1 on my scorecard too!!
Then that Silvo guy

[Milos_Sarcev]

Milos-

I already have it on my agenda to bring up the lack of individual judges scores ( as was adopted into rule last year) and the scoring system.

Bob - we have that on agenda FOR YEARS...Officials are listening on one ear and letting it out on the other YEAR AFTER YEAR.

I would start with requesting ORIGINAL SCORE SHEETS FROM SANTA SUSANA.

I know they made a mistake and I can prove it.

So can you request that from the officials ASAP?

[Milos_Sarcev]

paco won the show fair and square..damn this milos is buggin me alot with his stupid accusations.just tell me whats the truth..milos has gone insane cuz his boy wolfe placed 3rd...so whats the fuckin reality milos then?

My boy Dennis as much mine as Paco or any other athlete on the stage.

With exception of one particular pro (Ninja Turtle) I like everyone else...and try to fight for the athletes.

In my PM I explained you why I think Dennis should have won - and here publicaly I will repeat that if I was a judge Dennis would get my vote...

If you ask me who was most musculary conditioned athlete on that stage I would say - Paco by a mile...

[sarcasm]

My boy Dennis as much mine as Paco or any other athlete on the stage.

With exception of one particular pro (Ninja Turtle) I like everyone else...and try to fight for the athletes.

In my PM I explained you why I think Dennis should have won - and here publicaly I will repeat that if I was a judge Dennis would get my vote...

If you ask me who was most musculary conditioned athlete on that stage I would say - Paco by a mile...

by "ninja turtle" do you mean Dexter, Milos?

[Milos_Sarcev]

The question is : Milos, if Dennis won and Hide is in 6 or 7th place or something,DO YOU STILL MENTION ABOUT THIS SCORE SHEETS MATTER???

If you question my honor I don't realy need to respond...
But to tell you the truth - IF I get a gift I claim publicly...

On my board after placing 6th in 2003 Hungary I posted that I should have been behind two athletes that placed lower than me (Thomas and Eddie)...

If I would be proclaimed winner and find out that mistake was made - I would be the first one to inform the officials and return what doesn't belong to me...

So to answer your question - I would still mention that!
What if by original score sheets Dennis is not even on the third place (which can be the case...?)

[jaejonna]

by "ninja turtle" do you mean Dexter, Milos?

And what has Dexter done Milos? Please details! You should feel free to expose any truths that lay hidden.

[kyomu]

When you realize that bodybuilding is much more than MASS, CUTS and SHAPE...you might change your mind...

That is the problem with most of the people - they are watching the show...but NOT REALLY LOOKING and SEEING what is up there on the stage...


Dennis was UNQUESTIONABLE WINNER....


If the contest was about most muscle with best condition - Paco was by far the most superior athlete on the stage...

Wow that surprised me a lot. You were one of the best because of these 3 combinations.
I know many many better proportioned guy than you. But, I know that you can dwarf them like wiper of the car. BECAUSE YOU POSESED PROFESIONAL MASS WITH PROPORTION.
What I mean by that is Wolff was too thin to compare with those big boys. Paco does ugly proportion. But,he was way bigger and harder. I dont deny that Wolff has brighter future than Paco for sure. And even I think there is possibilty of winning O someday. But look at the quantity and quality that Paco carried.Did Wolff have same thing?? I dont think so. I think Wolff owned Paco ONLY WITH HIS PROPORTION.
If your theory is correct even I(188lbs) can beat Paco with my proportion. Oh gimme a break...