Author Topic: refute this atheist's  (Read 2624 times)

Necrosis

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refute this atheist's
« on: September 27, 2006, 12:10:29 PM »
here is a laymen paper talking about origin and evolution, along with the supernatural big bang theory.

http://evolution-facts.org/Ev-V1/1evlch01a.htm

NeoSeminole

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2006, 02:53:20 PM »

Necrosis

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2006, 04:19:44 PM »
haha, i will read the whole thing but the first few pages were full of speculation and wording problems like expansion. no scientific data at all. i will read the rest as obviously you have not read my paper, since the multiple evidences point to no big bang, ie red shift etc.

Necrosis

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 05:05:19 PM »
you said scientists know alot about cosmic evolution after the big bang. explain these items. which if unexplanible would mean we dont know all that much. violation of priciples is what makes some of your arguments erroneous.

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=mg18524911.600

toxy asked how god could violate the exclusion priciple, well how does matter do it according to science.

Necrosis

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 07:43:53 PM »
i read your paper it does have some good information on the big bang but it again runs into the problems in my first post and second article which weren't adressed. there is alot of speculation in your article about possible causes and it refers to einstein's theory. read my second article pertaining to that.

less then convincing im sorry to say, it keeps defending its position that the big bang is not a origin descriptive and it barely talks about things in my post which refute it. and the inflation theory is speculative at best, what is the mechanism? something that has any backing other then guesses that i could make.

NeoSeminole

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 02:37:46 PM »
haha, i will read the whole thing but the first few pages were full of speculation and wording problems like expansion. no scientific data at all. i will read the rest as obviously you have not read my paper, since the multiple evidences point to no big bang, ie red shift etc.

I'm not sure what you are talking about b/c red shifts support the Big Bang Theory.

NeoSeminole

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2006, 02:48:03 PM »
you said scientists know alot about cosmic evolution after the big bang. explain these items. which if unexplanible would mean we dont know all that much. violation of priciples is what makes some of your arguments erroneous.

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=mg18524911.600

Could you provide examples of violated principles? All I gathered from your article is that we currently don't have an answer for some things. I don't see how this disproves the Big Bang Theory. A lack of evidence is not the same as proof of absence.

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toxy asked how god could violate the exclusion priciple, well how does matter do it according to science.

Matter doesn't violate the exclusion principle. I don't know where you got that from. This site explains the theory if you want to learn more.

Encyclopaedia Britannica
http://www.britannica.com/nobel/micro/455_33.html

Necrosis

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2006, 02:55:04 PM »
sorry i meant things like the big bang, red shift etc..

no my first article states the violation of priciples namely energy can neither be created or destroyed for one. look to singularity for the example

read about Tetraneutrons, for the exclusion principle violation.

NeoSeminole

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2006, 06:20:07 PM »
sorry i meant things like the big bang, red shift etc..

no my first article states the violation of priciples namely energy can neither be created or destroyed for one. look to singularity for the example

The Big Bang Theory is not about the origin of the universe but rather its development with time. Even if matter cannot be created or destroyed, this does not disprove the theory.

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read about Tetraneutrons, for the exclusion principle violation.

okay, I just read it. You conveniently left this part out "established theory does allow the tetraneutron to exist - though only as a ridiculously short-lived particle. "This could be a reason for four neutrons hitting the Ganil detectors simultaneously," Timofeyuk says."

Necrosis

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2006, 06:45:37 PM »
first the big bang is considered the first action in the history of this universe and is very very relevant to creation as for it to occur out of nothing breaks numerous laws thus is a repugnant theory with no designer.

also, the tetraneutrons wether short lived or not should still not break physics laws etc no matter how short lived, also what is the mechanism, again just grasping at straws.

here is the ultimate problem with non-designer thinking. for one the violation of laws for matter to exist under normal circumstances should but absurd to a scientific person ie me. also, the big bang was an explosion that some how created crazy amounts of perfect co-ordination in which thousands of variables if any changed slightly would not suffice to maintain the universe. also, what explosion in history caused perfect order and balance-none. also, did the laws make themselves after the big bang because the couldn't have exsisted whilst in the big bang per se. also, you said the universe is a open system, this is wrong show me one shred of evidence that this is so. answer these questions using logic and you'll arrive at the conclusion i did, there is a supernatural explanation. remember once all the possiblities are considered the truth no matter how ridiculous is the truth.

ok if you refuse to use the big bang as a creation point explain how the matter got there in the first place and how something comes from nothing. i mean why would something come from nothing, it doesn't make sense and logic would imply something supernatural because using our laws and logic and anything you want to you cant explain it.

also, dont use the old it hasn't been found yet etc argument because using or laws which we use for everything in this world and to explain every stimuli they still fail.

NeoSeminole

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Re: refute this atheist's
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2006, 08:34:02 PM »
first the big bang is considered the first action in the history of this universe and is very very relevant to creation as for it to occur out of nothing breaks numerous laws thus is a repugnant theory with no designer.

I already told you the Big Bang Theory is not about the origin of the universe but rather its development with time. You are creating your own definition of the theory and attacking it. This is known as a strawman fallacy.

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also, the tetraneutrons wether short lived or not should still not break physics laws etc no matter how short lived, also what is the mechanism, again just grasping at straws.

We're not even sure if tetraneutrons exist! Scientists have not been able to duplicate the results since then. Furthermore, there are loopholes in particle physics that would allow them to violate Pauli's exclusion principle. Look up the Casimir effect.

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here is the ultimate problem with non-designer thinking. for one the violation of laws for matter to exist under normal circumstances should but absurd to a scientific person ie me. also, the big bang was an explosion that some how created crazy amounts of perfect co-ordination in which thousands of variables if any changed slightly would not suffice to maintain the universe.

The Big Bang was a rapid expansion of space-time; it was not a fiery explosion like a bomb. It cannot violate the 1st law of thermodynamics b/c the theory is not about the origin of the univese. It did not create order like you say. The theory states the entropy of the early universe was extremely low. Entropy does not mean the same as disorder. Your last sentence about the "perfect co-ordination" of variables is pointless since we have nothing to compare to. For all we know, this may be the 1,000th reincarnation of the universe b/c all the others could not sustain themselves.

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also, what explosion in history caused perfect order and balance-none. also, did the laws make themselves after the big bang because the couldn't have exsisted whilst in the big bang per se. also, you said the universe is a open system, this is wrong show me one shred of evidence that this is so.

The Big Bang was not an explosion but rather an expansion of space-time. The universe's laws would appear to have taken effect after the Big Bang. I never said the universe is an open system. If you read my posts carefully, you would notice I said life is an open system b/c we recieve energy from the sun. The universe is a closed system.

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answer these questions using logic and you'll arrive at the conclusion i did, there is a supernatural explanation. remember once all the possiblities are considered the truth no matter how ridiculous is the truth.

I don't see the logical connection between a lack of evidence and "god must have done it." ???

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ok if you refuse to use the big bang as a creation point explain how the matter got there in the first place and how something comes from nothing. i mean why would something come from nothing, it doesn't make sense and logic would imply something supernatural because using our laws and logic and anything you want to you cant explain it.

We simply don't know yet. Maybe this universe spawned from another with different laws than our own. Perhaps matter has always existed. Or we could be in the matrix. I don't see how you jump to the conclusion that god(s) created the universe.

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also, dont use the old it hasn't been found yet etc argument because using or laws which we use for everything in this world and to explain every stimuli they still fail.

Even if I don't have the answer, it doesn't disprove the Big Bang Theory.